Oil pressure/ new oil pump prime

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67bigblockfish

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Ok here's yet another problem! Wiped out camshaft with 12 miles on new build. 1st problem last year! Pull engine tare down, clean, clean and clean sum more lol replace cam and lifters reassemble. Learned big lesson- use break-in oil!!! Regular oil=not enuf zinc!!! After all that got it together back in car ran awesome for 75 miles. Drained break-in oil change filter and used zinc additive with fresh oil. Ran good for another 50 miles then out doin some 1/4 mile playing on highway in front of the house then look down and zero oil psi as I'm pulling in driveway so shut her down and parked it. Had no $ left already way over budget with the cam wipe months earlier. So finally bought new melling hv oil pump put it on and can't get it to prime so either the pump ain't the problem or we can't get it to prime! Counter clockwise with drill and prime tool u can hear the oil splashing/ gurgling like its trying to pickup?? 1/4 turn on engine while trying to prime to line it up just right as I know it's gotta be right in line with cam bearing to get to top end but Nothing! Any suggestions on what to do next? By the way when building engine we had machine shop tap and thread block and used hemi oil pickup as it is bigger-thinking bigger pickup = more oil flow/psi. Could this be a problem?? Please help!! Thanks
 
You said your OP guage read 0? Did you double check it with a hand held mechanicle guage? Did the engine start to make noise when you noticed you had 0 OP?
 
Well, since it ran that long before it did it I would think cam bearings.

I don't know if it is possible or not, but what happens if you turn the pump clockwise?
Bare with me on this,,,is it possible that the pump you put in it is designed for the opposite rotation?
I have NEVER heard the oil gurgle or splashing when the pump was being turned.
(That's what made me ask)
 
Remove the filter and try again. This removes head pressure from the pump. It should take about a 1/2 second to prime that way with a drill, and oil out the side. Fill the filter and put it back on. Remove the oil sender and attach a hose "rig" so you can see oil, prime until you get oil.

If you had junk in the system, you may have plugged gallery(s)
 
67Dart273 said:
Remove the filter and try again. This removes head pressure from the pump. It should take about a 1/2 second to prime that way with a drill, and oil out the side. Fill the filter and put it back on. Remove the oil sender and attach a hose "rig" so you can see oil, prime until you get oil.

If you had junk in the system, you may have plugged gallery(s)
Click to expand...

Good call Del.
Might just be resistance of the air cushion making the pump make sounds.

Was there any visible damage to the original pump?
 
Hopefully the filter removal will do the trick. Did you fill pump with oil and rotate through before installation? Some thoughts on my end as possibilities also: Is there a chance that a lifter popped out of bore due to valve train breakage? With your statement about oil to top end just wondering if you had valve covers off and inspected valve train. One other thing that comes to mind with the gurgling is the possibility of the oil pick up tube being cracked or broken. Hope you get it worked out where you can enjoy the ride. Sounds like you've had a few snags.
 
Valve covers are off and nO there's no sign Off damage. Old pump didn't have any signs of any problems we just started with what we thought it was and at this point I'm thinkn it's not the pump. just not getting oil. There were no sounds or anything unisual prior tO me shutting her down on zero psi.
 
I forgot to mention the possibility of a cracked oil pickup.

Additionally, where the nose of the pump mounts to the engine, there's an oil ring on the snout, as well as a gasket to the engine. If either of these has a problem, you'll either have no pressure, reduced pressure, or a leak.

I don't remember what all oil block gallery plugs are in a B, did you get them all in?
 

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Are you sure a lifter didn't pop out of the hole? By way of bent push rod, PR thru the rocker?
 
I'm thinking it's something like a cracked pickup. O ring and gasket is in place on the pump. And it could be a lifter popped out don't kno yet
 
If a lifter popped out you would have noticed how poorly the engine was running as soon as it happened. Did you try a second guage yet to make sure your original guage is correct? Seems odd that it ran and sounded the same when you noticed it had no OP, it does not take long for lifters to start to clatter when you lose OP.
 
I did take filter off hit the drill doe a sec and oil is going to filter! Took sending unit off rigged up a rubber hose And nothing hapnd still not priming!
 
67bigblockfish said:
So the pump is pumping. Could the filter be stopped up and not letting oil pass thru ??
Click to expand...

Possible yes. But for the price of a filter it could be worth a shot, its mechanical and strange things happen. How strong was the stream of oil coming out of the filter adapter? Could be the relief valve in the pump is stuck open too. Seems also like I have read somewhere about alignment issues between the oil pump ports and block passages. If it was pretty strong I would look elsewhere. Here's my train of thought, you were razzing on this pretty good when the initial problem began. If you look at the diagram above the oil flows along the right side lifter galley traveling to the back of the block. I would personally be checking the rockers/pushrods on the right bank looking for , as mentioned, a push rod that has broken thru the cup on the rocker, a bent pushrod etc anything that would allow a lifter to come out of the bore. I would pull the intake and look for oil free flowing into the lifter valley while priming. I know it's a pain and timely. There's just so many possibilities. Spun cam bearing allowing oil to free flow past, Galley plug could have worked loose even. After the initial cam was wiped out were the lifter bores dimensionally checked, was the lifter valley inspected closely looking for possible cracks etc. I hope it turns out to be something fairly simple for you. It can get discouraging, but hang in there.
 
On a BB you can remove the valve covers and shine a light by the pushrods to check all the lifters.
 
After you got oil to the filter and re-installed, did you give it time to fill the filter, and did you "pre" fill the filter?

After installing/ filling the filter, the drill should "bog" considerably under pressure.
 
with the filter off you're getting oil on the floor. that's good in this case. put it back on and nothing, correct? try putting another filter on it like was already suggested.

saturday i had the opportunity to work on an oil problem with a bb mopar t/s hotrod. the owner said the pressure was fluctuating and was slow to climb. the nice thing is his car has an oberg on it, but someone install it vertically so i took if off the frame and into the garage to the bench to remove the top. what i found was it was so full of cotton shop rag fibers the oil was having a tough time going through it. could this be your problem?since he hadn't check the bearings or change oil yet we did that and cleaned all the moly lube out of the pan. install a new pump because he bought a new one, the old one had some dings in the rotors. the bearings were just fine. i made a small bracket to mount the oberg horizonally and built one new #12 line from the pump to the filter.

moral of this story: NEVER EVER WIPE OFF ANY INTERNAL ENGINE PARTS WITH A COTTON SHOP RAG. only use paper towels/rags. the oil will disolve the paper but not the cotton.

to help with primp use a lube on the pump rotors, bearing grease, assembly lube, etc. this helps with suction a bunch as you prime.

here's something else to consider. you said you could hear oil splashing. behind the top timing gear facing down there is a 3/8" pipe plug to connect the passage from the pump to the lifter gallery. you may have lift this out mistakenly. it happens every now and again. you should be able to check it though the fuel pump hole with a small dentil type mirro.
 
Well found the problem! Broke pushrod :( The cup had a chunk out of it! Good thing it didn't drop down inside the engine, it was laying beside the rod on the head! Tried to post pics from my phone an couldn't figure it out
 
67bigblockfish said:
Well found the problem! Broke pushrod :( The cup had a chunk out of it! Good thing it didn't drop down inside the engine, it was laying beside the rod on the head! Tried to post pics from my phone an couldn't figure it out
Click to expand...

So it did kick a lifter out of the hole?
 
Yeah it did and didn't see it either was hoping it was close so I could grab it and slide it back in place without pulling everything. I'm tired of buying $50 head gaskets!
 
You don't have to pull the heads. You should be able to locate the lifter even if you need to remove the rocker shafts and push rods. Then use a tappet tool or magnet to put it back in place. I was pretty sure all along that it was a lifter that kicked out. From your description. I've done the same thing a few times.
 
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