Oil Pressure

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Norm's Cuda said:
Thanks for the photo of the drivers side rear plug Fishy68. That plug was not installed, but it is now. Still no pressure @ gauge. Pulled filter and adapter to make sure plug was in there it was. Spun the pump with filter off oil streamed out as soon as pump was turned. Check at gauge fitting oil streamed out also. But when line was reconnected no pressure on gauge.
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If that galley plug was missing in the rear, then I would recommend to check for the two behind the camshaft thrust plate. You can see them in this how-to on the front end assembly of a small block:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=287231
 
Norm's Cuda said:
I am using a corded drill, No oil on the ground under neath it. there is a gauge at the end of the line. The oil does not spray out of the block it is more like a stream. like I said the passenger side lifters pumped up fine with a plug in the back of the block. I purchased the block with all the machine work done to it. The oil galley plugs were installed. I also removed the oil filter and turned the oil pump prime shaft by hand and oil immediately came out. I assembled the engine this is not the first engine I have done , but this is the first time this has happened to me.
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Norm's Cuda said:
Thanks for the photo of the drivers side rear plug Fishy68. That plug was not installed, but it is now. Still no pressure @ gauge. Pulled filter and adapter to make sure plug was in there it was. Spun the pump with filter off oil streamed out as soon as pump was turned. Check at gauge fitting oil streamed out also. But when line was reconnected no pressure on gauge.
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it seems to me that between someone else doing all the "machine work and plug installation" and you doing the final assembly something got overlooked

did you buy the block from a reputable MOPAR rebuilder?

i stick with my original thought that there is a (or better, another) plug missing
your pump builds pressure, that much is proven
when you hook up the gauge the pressure does not disappear, it just exits the system through the path of least resistance

on the bright side, if you do decide to pull the front cover off to check for those two plugs you might be able to put a fresh coat of break in lube on the camshaft :pale:
 
Here is the latest,the front cover is off the gallery plugs are there. Tomorrow the engine is coming out and the pan is coming off. It will be well worth the price of a gasket kit to see what is going on. I'll post the results.
 
be sure to document everything
who knows, there might be a liability issue you can take up with the builder


on a side note, I bet with the next engine you build you'll run a primer rod on it before it gets installed ;)
 
Oh I most certainly will! Thanks to everyone for their help and advice and I'll let you all know what I find.
 
don't forget to check for the oil galley plug located in the rear main bearing bolt hole. It's hidden deep...
 
When using a 1/2" drill at full speed, it will free wheel for a short while. You should then feel it suddenly "drag", and want to pull out of your hand. It will literally be hard to hold. If you feel this, then you are indeed building pressure, but not reading pressure on your gauge. If you don't feel this drag, then you are not building pressure in your pump (priming), and I would start there.
 
'66Cuda said:
When using a 1/2" drill at full speed, it will free wheel for a short while. You should then feel it suddenly "drag", and want to pull out of your hand. It will literally be hard to hold. If you feel this, then you are indeed building pressure, but not reading pressure on your gauge. If you don't feel this drag, then you are not building pressure in your pump (priming), and I would start there.
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i spins the oil pump with a speed handle with the priming tool...........you can easily feel the pressure ....HV pumps...
 
'66Cuda said:
When using a 1/2" drill at full speed, it will free wheel for a short while. You should then feel it suddenly "drag", and want to pull out of your hand. It will literally be hard to hold. If you feel this, then you are indeed building pressure, but not reading pressure on your gauge. If you don't feel this drag, then you are not building pressure in your pump (priming), and I would start there.
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I tryed using a 3/8 drill on my motor and it started smoking the drill.

If you don't fill the drag described above,(i underlined it) pull the motor! If you do! get a 1/2 drill!
 
Keep in mind that if all else fails you can make a cheap oil system priming tool. All you need is a vessel that will hold a few quarts of oil, can have a hose attached and can be pressurized. It can be a plastic hand-pump spray bottle (garden sprayer), an old refrigerant tank or anything similar. Plumb it to the oil port where the oil sending unit goes, pump in the oil and see where it goes. Or doesn't.

Do a Google search for "engine oil system primer" and you can find images of examples.
 
I believe I found the problem! It seems the pump wasn't seating the whole way. The pump housing was hitting the main cap bolt head. I installed a standard pump and it seated just fine. It seems the hv pump housing is bigger than stock and wasn't machined enough. Thanks for every ones help with this. This was a first.
 
lol, we'll write that up as another vote for the regular volume pump


glad to hear it was something "simple"
 
Great to know.
Glad you found it without smoking a motor.
 
Norm's Cuda said:
I believe I found the problem! It seems the pump wasn't seating the whole way. The pump housing was hitting the main cap bolt head. I installed a standard pump and it seated just fine. It seems the hv pump housing is bigger than stock and wasn't machined enough. Thanks for every ones help with this. This was a first.
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That's why i asked if you used ARP studs . same thing only different .
 
You're the one who showed the wisdom to try run up the pressure and didn't just move forward on blind faith. Congrats on ferreting this out.
 
Got the engine all put back together, put the primer rod in and low and behold it went right up to 60 psi no problem. Oil to the rockers and everywhere else. While I was putting the pan back on I noticed two bumps in it where the high volume pump(which was returned to the store) hit it when the pan was tightened up. I would like to thank everyone again for their input,there is a lot of knowledge and experience here.
 
Norm's Cuda said:
Got the engine all put back together, put the primer rod in and low and behold it went right up to 60 psi no problem. Oil to the rockers and everywhere else. While I was putting the pan back on I noticed two bumps in it where the high volume pump(which was returned to the store) hit it when the pan was tightened up. I would like to thank everyone again for their input,there is a lot of knowledge and experience here.
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I always use the HV pumps after a low pressure issue on my first build...

But you DO have to beat some clearance into the oil pan when you run one. It also helps to bevel the top cover plate of the oil pump to help with clearance since they are a little taller...

I test fit the oil pan until it can sit flush on the block without a gasket, then it will have enough clearance to the pump with the gasket installed.

Glad you found the problem....
 
I just had the same issue with clearance on the same pump, only I didn't notice until I had the dent already. Glad you found it!
 
Norm's Cuda said:
Got the engine all put back together, put the primer rod in and low and behold it went right up to 60 psi no problem. Oil to the rockers and everywhere else. While I was putting the pan back on I noticed two bumps in it where the high volume pump(which was returned to the store) hit it when the pan was tightened up. I would like to thank everyone again for their input,there is a lot of knowledge and experience here.
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You got lucky it just put bumps in your pan. The first one I did several yrs. ago put 2 little splits in the pan that I had to have welded up. I noticed some pumps have countersunk phillips head screws and just barely touch the pan and other pumps have a flat cover with 1/4" bolt heads sticking out that hit bad. That first one I got was that type. When I buy a HV pump now I make sure it has the recessed cover and/or countersunk phillips screws
 
Broke a oil pump housing back in the mid 70s cause it was not seated on the main cap.....

Arp studs and replacement bolts cause issues with oil pump housing......had one HV pump crack the oil pan also....

concerning use stock bolt under the oil pump no matter if it has studs or bolts...

new small block build in Car Craft....Brian from IMM...600 hp small block...HV pump..
 
fishy68 said:
You got lucky it just put bumps in your pan. The first one I did several yrs. ago put 2 little splits in the pan that I had to have welded up. I noticed some pumps have countersunk phillips head screws and just barely touch the pan and other pumps have a flat cover with 1/4" bolt heads sticking out that hit bad. That first one I got was that type. When I buy a HV pump now I make sure it has the recessed cover and/or countersunk phillips screws
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Is this just on the HV pumps? I guess that's something else I gotta check, lol. IF I use it.
 
70aarcuda said:
Arp studs and replacement bolts cause issues with oil pump housing......had one HV pump crack the oil pan also....

concerning use stock bolt under the oil pump no matter if it has studs or bolts...
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Funny you mention that, I just had a conversation with a guy at ARP just yesterday. He told me that they have a lower profile bolt that will substitute and work in that one hole.

He also said the majority of issues are when using the Melling pumps for some reason.
 
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