Oil??

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Most oil, even diesel oils, have had their zinc reduced considerably. You have to do some research. I believe CJ-rated oil still had a moderate, but still, reduced amount of zinc. But finding specific numbers can sometimes be difficult. Supposedly, the zinc additives have a negative affect on modern catalytic converters! Some oil and/or vapors do get past the rings and into the exhaust flow.

I do break in my engines with older, conventional oil (15w-40 or thiner), but plan on adding some break-in lube with zinc additives as the supply runs out. Afterwards, I use Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil - 5w-20. If machine work and clearances are tight, it is possible to use thinner oils for better efficiency. New vehicles as well as appropriately built race engines fit that description.

Here is an Amsoil Tech Bullitin outlining some of their synthetic, high zinc oils.

https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB MO-2007-08-08 Flat Tappet.pdf

Amsoil also has oil sampling kits which provide info on EVERYTHING in the oil being sent in. That's a good way to find out exactly what your particular brand has in it, from wear particles to zinc content.

Amsoil source & info:
www.thelubepage.com
 
RACE CARS.........................Brad Penn
STREET CARS.....................Castroil
TOW VEHICLE(diesel)...........Rotella
 
hey locamotion \\ whats up \\
I have seen your post on here(from a long time ago)and i wasn't sure if you where even around anymore.This is like the first site i ever posted at and i never really talked online much.
BUT was suprised to see you here because i found you online when i looked up stuff about the commando crate motors.I bought one new and have been bracket racing it for 15 years.If i could talk to you sometime that would be cool.great motor.THANKS 8)
 
Heavier weight oils may sacrifice some power, but not much. Maybe 1 or 2 horsepower. They do not lead to accelerated wear.

I have run 20w50 Valvoline VR1 oil in my motor from 1000 miles on and it now has 17000 miles. I live here is So Cal, where it can get warm in the summer. Yes, it may take a few seconds to get oil to the valvetrain when fairly cold out, but not excessive time.
 
I use to use 20w-50 oil in my street, then race car a long time ago. I got good life out of my engines. But 2 points I have to debate:

1) Seconds are critical when it comes to oil circulation. Even if the wear isn't excessive during the second or whatever difference it is before oil reaches the upper portions of an engine, it adds up over time.

2) I'm sure the HP difference between a 20w-50 oil and 10w-30 is more than 1-2 and certainly much more against a 5w-20 or thinner because those differences will show up on an ET/MPH slip at the drag strip under controlled conditions. (By 'controlled" I mean that results aren't tainted by traction, wind, or significant temperature and humidity changes, not to mention driver consistency.) The difference may be .05 or .10, but it takes much more than 1-2 HP to make that difference.
 
Locomotion said:
I use to use 20w-50 oil in my street, then race car a long time ago. I got good life out of my engines. But 2 points I have to debate:

1) Seconds are critical when it comes to oil circulation. Even if the wear isn't excessive during the second or whatever difference it is before oil reaches the upper portions of an engine, it adds up over time.

2) I'm sure the HP difference between a 20w-50 oil and 10w-30 is more than 1-2 and certainly much more against a 5w-20 or thinner because those differences will show up on an ET/MPH slip at the drag strip under controlled conditions. (By 'controlled" I mean that results aren't tainted by traction, wind, or significant temperature and humidity changes, not to mention driver consistency.) The difference may be .05 or .10, but it takes much more than 1-2 HP to make that difference.
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True, but what type of engine build are we compairing to? I was only thinking along the lines of a mild street engine, where the power differential wouldn't be as great. Also, in the summer, there may be a 5-10 psi difference in oil pressure at idle between 10w30 and 20w50. 30 psi at hot idle on a hot day is most likely better than 18-20 psi, even though those are still acceptable numbers.

I do take your wisdom into account though. I personally am running 58 psi at 2500 rpm hot and 29 psi at idle hot with 20w50 and would like to downgrade to 10w30 or 40, if I can find an oil with enough zinc in it for my cam. I can live with 18-20 psi pressure at idle, as that should still be plenty. The added zinc is why I run 20w50 VR1. I dont like paying extra for additives and having those float around in the engine as well.
 
True, viscosity differences may not be as obvious in mild engines. But it "might" be felt and it would be interesting to see if there would be a noticable fuel mileage difference. After all, that's another reason why manufacturers use lower viscosity oil.

Oil pressure between viscosities will vary, but the percentage is likely influenced by clearances. I saw noticable differences going from 0w-30 to 10w-30, then 5w-20. I could just about bury the oil pressure needle revving on a cold start up with the 10w-30. That's with a OEM replacement stock volume and stock pressure Melling oil pump! Warm temps were somewhat reasonable but I still didn't like the 10w-30 numbers. Although "heat-soaked", I actually run my engines with a fairly cool water temp. so I don't believe the oil reaches "normal" operating temps until after the run. The first part of the oil viscosity # seems to make the most oil pressure difference in my engines.

Interesting how all that works.
 
If I could find a 10w40 or 15w40 oil with enough zinc in it, I would run it instead of the VR1 20w50, just to see if I could get a few ponies and a mpg or two out of it.
 
No more than 1200 ppm of phosphorus is required to protect aggressive aftermarket valve trains. Although not every Heavy Duty Engine Oil lists zinc & phosphorus content, the following show a P content of at least 1200 ppm:

Chevron Delo 400 LE 15W-40 (1200 ppm P)

Esso XD-3 Extra 15W-40 (1370 ppm P)
Better base oils (like 0W-30 & 0W-40 PAO) do not require as much ZDDP to have the same amount of anti-wear protection.

Petro-Canada Duron XL 15W-40 (1300 ppm P)

According to Shell Recommendation: Camshaft & Zinc, Shell says that pre-CJ-4 Rotella (ie Shell ROTELLA® T Multigrade CI-4 PLUS 15W-40) oils had around 1300 ppm of phosphorus. Shell also recommends 945-950 ppm of P for moderately enhanced performance applications, which should still be sufficient for a the OP's mild 360.

Because additives compete for surface area, HDEOs generally give up friction modifiers (1-2% fuel economy penalty) for increased anti-wear and detergency. Excessive amounts of phosphorus result in increased engine deposits. More than 1400 ppm of P can lead to long term engine wear and more than 2000 ppm can result in camshaft spalling. For reduced engine wear, I would be more concerned with having an efficient air filter (for keeping abrasive dust out of an engine) than having the maximum amount of phosphorus in in the oil.
 
fjr said:
No more than 1200 ppm of phosphorus is required to protect aggressive aftermarket valve trains. Although not every Heavy Duty Engine Oil lists zinc & phosphorus content, the following show a P content of at least 1200 ppm:

Chevron Delo 400 LE 15W-40 (1200 ppm P)

Esso XD-3 Extra 15W-40 (1370 ppm P)
Better base oils (like 0W-30 & 0W-40 PAO) do not require as much ZDDP to have the same amount of anti-wear protection.

Petro-Canada Duron XL 15W-40 (1300 ppm P)

According to Shell Recommendation: Camshaft & Zinc, Shell says that pre-CJ-4 Rotella (ie Shell ROTELLA® T Multigrade CI-4 PLUS 15W-40) oils had around 1300 ppm of phosphorus. Shell also recommends 945-950 ppm of P for moderately enhanced performance applications, which should still be sufficient for a the OP's mild 360.

Because additives compete for surface area, HDEOs generally give up friction modifiers (1-2% fuel economy penalty) for increased anti-wear and detergency. Excessive amounts of phosphorus result in increased engine deposits. More than 1400 ppm of P can lead to long term engine wear and more than 2000 ppm can result in camshaft spalling. For reduced engine wear, I would be more concerned with having an efficient air filter (for keeping abrasive dust out of an engine) than having the maximum amount of phosphorus in in the oil.
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I can get Delo 15w40 by the quart through my dad's work, so I would like to use it. Maybe I can mix it with some STP for a little extra spike.

I am running Comp XE268 cams in my 318 and 383.
 
I have also heard that Chevron Delo 15w40 contains 1150-1250 ppm, which I have heard should be enough in itself without additives to protect an aftermarket cam during each oil change, such as an XE series cam like a 262,268, or 274.
 
Valvoline Racing 30Wt in the summer every 3,000 miles. Completely Old School. Chrysler and Chevrolet Racing Manuals both say Straight 30 Wt oil is the best for the least wear. Valvoline Racing 20-50 Wt in winter. Even in the 96 Neon. All street driving.
 
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