ok, this is what i have come up with as a good budget build for my car.

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happster

happster

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so, i have done research, i have made calculations on my own, i have talked to racers/builders, and this has what i have in mind for my scamp. this will be "stage 1," so to speak.
i want to start off with a 360. the best one i think would be one of the 74-75 4bbl 360s, since they have a shot-peened cast crank, but i am really not going to be that picky. haven't come up with a core yet.

i have a set of 360 "J" heads i will use, without any modification for now. maybe a mild port job later on.

a set of KB107 pistons, running a little under 10:1 compression, with the stock crank and rods, fully balanced.

1 5/8" ceramic coated full length headers.

2 1/2" pypes exhaust, with violator mufflers :D i like my toys nice and loud!

a 670 cfm Holley aluminum street avenger, on top of a performer RPM air gap intake.

a custom ground cam for my engine, not sure of the specs, or even ballpark. but i will know that soon. with the cam will come springs as well, and i was thinking

a digital ignition- unsure of what to go with here, haven't done much research on ignition systems yet... advice?

a Torqueflite 904 with the mancini transmission rebuild kit- it's a full-on rebuild kit, designed to make the trans handle what i'm putting it through. i have heard mixed opinions on the 904, but for my street/strip application, i doubt that it will have a hard time, because i have seen them go through much worse punishment. the reason i want to go with the 904 is because it has a lot less rotating mass, and will free up around 20 hp that a 727 would take.

3.55 gears in an 8.75 "B" body housing. if the B housing is seriously only an inch wider, i will just have to change some dimensions when i get the custom rear wheels made.

325/50/15 drag radials. nice and wide i know, but i think they will fit fine with a mini tub and a offset shackle/perch, and SS springs.

really want to hear what you guys think. i'm new to drag racing, and i would hate to have to re-do anything, other than the heads, because i'm sure they will be modified later. this car will be running on street gas as well.

i would love to hear some desktop dyno results, but i don't know the specs on the cam, and that can really change things. any ideas on output, 1/4 ET?
 
Spend some time on suspension and wieght tansfer
and you'll have a potent setup.
 
yes, i have been reading up about weight transfer and how to get the rear dialed in. would it be better for me to raise the front a bit so i load the rear up more on takeoff? i was planning on going with the MP drag shocks. been reading the technical stuff about mopar's SS springs and drag shocks, and it sounds like i won't have any problems hooking up, at least not as many as i could have. in the old direct connection book, they say DO NOT USE TRACTION BARS! EVER! so i figured i would steer clear of those for now, especially since that would just be one more expense. i forgot to mention i would be putting in the bolt-in mopar SFCs to stiffen 'er up a bit.
 
i failed to mention i was going to get a TCI streetfighter torque converter, which stalls around 3K. does this sound right to you?
 
Should be a quick little setup, I'm no pro but if it were mine I'd be hoping for low 13 high 12 maybe as good as a mid 12. The converter should be good, I've heard good and bad about TCI but that's they way it goes, look into a Coan Converter I've got one, many of my friends have them with no problems(some used to run TCI) With the suspension, use /6 torsion bars for weight transfer. My Duster is mini tubbed with a relocation kit and I'll soon be doing a pair of 15x10's with a 28x12.5-15 M/t ET street. I've had this tire with a mock up wheel on the car with no problems and the springs set on the lower setting. You should be pleased with your car. Why are you set on a custom grind cam? Why not a catalog cam?
 
Suggest you also look into an adjustable Pinion Snubber for the front of your 8.75 and reinforce the floor where the snubber will contact it. Ran this same setup in my old '69 Dart with SS springs and it hooked hard and straight.
As 'wigsplitter' said, use /6 t-bars up front with some worn out shocks if this is a strip only car. You want the front to raise quickly for weight transfer and then lower for better aerodynamics and less drag through the lights on the top end. Don't just raise the front by jacking the t-bars, you'll lose too much by increased drag and bad aero. You want to keep the air over the top of the car and around the sides at speed - not under the car.
 
i have been looking at that ignition, looks like a pretty sweet deal, at least to start with. the custom grind is from a guy on the site, who has really helped me along with coming up with my current plan. helped me focus my thoughts, throw out bad ideas, and just go for the basics.
OC, should have mentioned i want to get a pinion snubber, and i am planning on reinforcing the area that it hits.
you guys think it would handle like a pig if i had /6 bars in it? this is going to be a street/strip machine, so i don't want to be all over the place driving around and cruising with friends.
today i found a core! it's from a machine shop. they get their cores from a guy, and he told me that the 360 core with cranks and rods comes with a rebuildable guarantee, so if something is bad i can take it back. under $100! exactly what i needed.

i'm glad i'm getting recommendations, it's really awesome that you guys are agreeing with my setup. i've put a lot of time in deciding what's going to get me the best bang for the buck, and i think this is it! keep em coming folks!

EDIT: I also want to go with a deeper oil pan and windage tray. i'm wondering about the 904 though, what all am i going to need to make it stand up to the abuse i'll be putting it through? i REALLY need advice on that. i am confident that me and my friend can put the trans together ourselves, i just need to know what i need to put into it.
 
I wish we were closer so we could race when finished. My set up is very close to yours and will wait to see if I fall short. Your setup sounds really good. I'm starting with a 69 Dart with a 340. Sounds like a cool setup.
 
hey, head on down to good ol' Kansas! don't worry, it'll probably be a while before i can get 'er dialed in, let alone finished... never driven an automatic on the drag. i'm gonna test it out on the great bend drag strip- where the first nhra nationals were held back in '55. it's not the best track in the world any more, but it's still got some history! i'm most excited about being in a range that's pretty easy on the equipment. i know a few people who have built cars like mine for the 12 second range, and didn't break anything after 5 years of doing this stuff every weekend. he started hopping the motor up a bit more after that, and once he got into the high 10s, he literally split the 340 and the 727 in half... hopefully that won't happen to me!
 
I'm not sure if you will even see a decent benefit from a windage tray with a stock stroke. If you get a deeper oil pan I don't think you'd need a tray at all. I just picked up this the other day. Looks like we are doing similar builds, you stick with a stock bore? Those are kb107 .30 over pistons in the pic, well the trashed wrapper at least :cheers:

moroso.jpg
 
From what I've read and heard, don't go with the TCI converter, a lot of people have had problems. And decide on your carb after you pick the grind of your cam. A 670 might not cut it on a 360 with an RPM air gap and aggressive cam.
 
yeah, we'll see how she runs with the 670. if it needs some more CFM, i'll switch it out. i think it will be fine for starters though.
and actually i'm going to punch it out .030 over. i know i'll need a deeper pan, i was going to probably make my own given the instructions in the DC book i have. DC says to run a windage tray. can't be too prepared, right?
 
I'm using an airgap and a 525 lift cam and almost everyone said 750dp or the 770 street avenger for street/strip. 650 would be very streetable from the advice I've gotten, I still haven't made up my mind ](*,)
I was gonna get a tray, but I'm on a "budget" so 80 bucks for a handful of power didn't seem like something I should get just yet. I might decided to spend 1,200 bucks on eddy heads tommorow though :)
 
i have a friend who has been talking major trash about his '69 galaxie 500. he's putting a warmed over 351C in it, probably putting out around 400... we'll see what my weight can do to help me out. i think i'll have him :D
 
I'd say you should easily. Depending on the flow in your heads you could be pushing 450 easy at the wheels.
 
he's just building a motor too. i'm going to have my suspension set up as well as the transmission and tires, so i'm going to hook better. thing is, his weight is going to work to his advantage in this aspect.
 
I think everything you've suggested will work out fine. I don't have any criticism of any of your ideas as nearly all of them are exactly the way I would do it.

I especially applaud your idea of a 904, and a B-body 8.75" rear end.

If you stick to your guns, I think it's a foregone conclusion that you'll wind up with a high 12-second car.

Having said that, and playing the devil's advocate I have just a couple of thoughts I'd like to suggest as POSSSIBLE alternatives to what you're doing.

1. A Professional Products "Crosswind" intake is a bald-faced Chinese copy of an Edelbrock Air Gap, but is about $100.00 cheaper. If money is a factor and you have no problem with buying from a manufacturer that uses Chinese labor, that would be a cheaper alternative. I am not sure there is any difference in the performance of the two. That's a choice for you to make.

2. There are some advantages to utilizing a Magnum 360 block over an L-A, and some disadvantages. The advantages that are obvious are the hydraulic roller cam that they use can be ground to include quicker lift rates than a flat-tappet cam, and make more power without getting into driveabilty issues due to excessive duration and overlap. By that, I mean, if this is a daily driver you're building, you can get the same performance with a milder duration grind if it's a roller, due to the quicker lift ramps. The other advantage in the cam department is the zinc issue that has been foisted upon us by our wonderful government by taking all the ZDDP out of the oil.
That has created serious cam-longivity problems for flat tappet cams and lifters, that rollers don't suffer from.

The single downside to roller cams that I know of, is that their initial cost is higher, and the lifters are more expensive. I realize that can be a killer consideration for anyone on a budget.

The Magnum heads may be (I said MAY BE) better than the J heads in terms of flow, particularly on the exhaust side. Different sources have different opinions on this.

I would definitely check out a Magnum "core" and investigate the cost of a cam package, keeping in mind the negative aspects of flat-tappet cams in todays's zinc-starved lubrication world. You should only have to buy the roller ONCE...

It's possible to get a late (1986?) L-A motor (pre-1992) with roller lifters. If you like the L-A heads better, that might be a way to have your cake and eat it, too... but, I'd definitely look for a way to get roller lifters into this new engine. More money, yes, but definitely worth it, in my opinion.

Engine Quest has some VERY reasonably priced cast iron heads that flow like crazy (supposedly better than the M-P "R/T" head) and are available from a variety of sources, including Hughes. The brand new MOPAR ACTION has a really informative article on these and other small block heads in its latest issue (just got mine in the mail, yesterday.)

Good luck with your project; any way you go will be fine. You really can't make a mistake with a MOPAR!!! :cheers:
 
sounds like a great plan you have going...may i suggest that you punch in your specs to the comp cams camquest program they have available for download on their site...it will recommedn a bunch of different cams for your aplication, as well as projected hp and torque numbers....even if you arent getting one of their cams, it will give you an idea of how different cam specs will affect your engine...Another thing (im not sure about though) is running those tires with the b-body rear end...my dad has a b-body rear, minitubbed spring relocated 69 dart and the biggest he can get (with fabbed tubs as well) is 295's...thats also with weld draglites that have 7.5 backspacing...you may want to take the time now to spend a little bit of money and have your rear narrowed- that way you can get some deep dish wheels and run those 325's no problem...Car sounds like it should be alot of fun and get you into low 13's high 12's for sure...good luck!
 
alright, i have some answers! and all of y'all's ideas have really been excellent. i appreciate you all helping me with getting everything organized for the best results.
Bill Dedman said:
I think everything you've suggested will work out fine. I don't have any criticism of any of your ideas as nearly all of them are exactly the way I would do it.
thank you!
I especially applaud your idea of a 904, and a B-body 8.75" rear end.
thank you!
If you stick to your guns, I think it's a foregone conclusion that you'll wind up with a high 12-second car.
this is exactly what i am shooting for... for now.
Having said that, and playing the devil's advocate I have just a couple of thoughts I'd like to suggest as POSSSIBLE alternatives to what you're doing.


1. A Professional Products "Crosswind" intake is a bald-faced Chinese copy of an Edelbrock Air Gap, but is about $100.00 cheaper. If money is a factor and you have no problem with buying from a manufacturer that uses Chinese labor, that would be a cheaper alternative. I am not sure there is any difference in the performance of the two. That's a choice for you to make.
I doubt i will have to buy the RPM new. i have also heard a few bad results to do with the PP intakes. I don't mind spending the extra money, esp. if it's going to hold its value better than the other one.
2. There are some advantages to utilizing a Magnum 360 block over an L-A, and some disadvantages. The advantages that are obvious are the hydraulic roller cam that they use can be ground to include quicker lift rates than a flat-tappet cam, and make more power without getting into driveabilty issues due to excessive duration and overlap. By that, I mean, if this is a daily driver you're building, you can get the same performance with a milder duration grind if it's a roller, due to the quicker lift ramps. The other advantage in the cam department is the zinc issue that has been foisted upon us by our wonderful government by taking all the ZDDP out of the oil.
That has created serious cam-longivity problems for flat tappet cams and lifters, that rollers don't suffer from.

The single downside to roller cams that I know of, is that their initial cost is higher, and the lifters are more expensive. I realize that can be a killer consideration for anyone on a budget.

The Magnum heads may be (I said MAY BE) better than the J heads in terms of flow, particularly on the exhaust side. Different sources have different opinions on this.

I would definitely check out a Magnum "core" and investigate the cost of a cam package, keeping in mind the negative aspects of flat-tappet cams in todays's zinc-starved lubrication world. You should only have to buy the roller ONCE...
i agree. i would have a more driveable car with a bigger cam, and the engine wouldn't eat the cam as fast, if at all. what i decided is, i already have the J heads, and they're freshly rebuilt, and ready to be thrown on. any other head is going to cost me a bit more money, as the cores do not come with heads. something else i have heard, and tend on doing, is the DIESEL OIL like Delo still has zinc in it. a lot of folks use it for break-in, but why not run it all the time? it's a high-detergent, usually synthetic, high-zinc oil, just like it's supposed to be for a flat tappet engine.
It's possible to get a late (1986?) L-A motor (pre-1992) with roller lifters. If you like the L-A heads better, that might be a way to have your cake and eat it, too... but, I'd definitely look for a way to get roller lifters into this new engine. More money, yes, but definitely worth it, in my opinion.
I didn't know this! i will look into it. my machinist is a phone call away, and he's the one getting me the core.
Engine Quest has some VERY reasonably priced cast iron heads that flow like crazy (supposedly better than the M-P "R/T" head) and are available from a variety of sources, including Hughes. The brand new MOPAR ACTION has a really informative article on these and other small block heads in its latest issue (just got mine in the mail, yesterday.)
if my heads flow better though, which i am sure i could make the heads i already have do, i'm going to lose bottom end either way. i think for now these heads will do the trick for me. they flow well out of the "box" and are easy to make flow even better.
Good luck with your project; any way you go will be fine. You really can't make a mistake with a MOPAR!!! :cheers:
Thank you! MOPAR ROCKS!
Click to expand...

I have also been thinking about cutting down the rear. i am going to do it. the one thing i may have a problem with are the axle shafts... after the splines, they thin down. i wouldn't be able to use these if i were to cut it down, but i intend on figuring out a way to do it anyway.
I still would appreciate someone telling me everything i'm going to need to do to build the 904 to hold up to my kind of power, and a bit more maybe for the long run.

i will go and mess around with camquest if it will work on my mac. desktop dyno isn't made for macs, so i'm sortof up sh*t creek for that one.

thank you so much for the suggestions, and the advice. i can really use it, as you can see.
 
If you are not going to buy aftermarket axles (which would I think, be the best idea) I have heard that C-Body 8.75" axles are long enough that when you cut them down to the length you need, the "spline area" is beyond (closer to the flange/outside end) the necked-down, problem area... so, you can have shortened axles with proper splines installed.

But, don't take my word for that; I have never done it, but maybe you could put up a new post about that and someone who has done it will respond.

I have had no problems with my Professional Products Crosswind and am curious as to what you've heard. Can you elaborate, please?

Thanks for any info...

Bill
 
all i have heard is that it doesn't flow as well as the air gap. can't say i have a lot to back it up... just what i've heard :dontknow:

and yeah, i'm starting to think aftermarket axles are going to be the best bet any way i look at it. moser probably sells a good set.
 
happster said:
all i have heard is that it doesn't flow as well as the air gap. can't say i have a lot to back it up... just what i've heard :dontknow:

and yeah, i'm starting to think aftermarket axles are going to be the best bet any way i look at it. moser probably sells a good set.
Click to expand...

theres a member on here who is a moser wholesaler...I and a few other members have bought moser stuff off of him...came as ordered and on time, for a good price too...his name on here is magicsunset08...just search his name, find some of his ad threads, and get his email from them and contact him if moser is what your looking for
 
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