Opinions on 360 vs 440

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Why do people think their 440’s are so fast. Lol. My stock block Edelbrock headed 408 has beat a lot of 9, 10, 11, second 440’s with a lot of good parts in them.
 
If I'm building a small block it will be 400 or 383. lol head, camshaft and rev it to the moon. lol Well it does think it's a small block.
A low deck 451 or 470, bypassing the 440 is where I go
There are many options using the low deck
 
I like them both, and they both have their own pros and cons; but I really wish people would stop comparing weight between a stock iron headed, iron manifolded small block to an aluminum headed, manifolded and T.C.ed big block. Keep it apples to apples. Throw the same equipment on a small block- aluminum heads, manifold, etc. and the weight difference is still gonna be there; just at lower numbers.
Heck, throw an aluminum block and enough other parts into the 440 and you can probably get the weight down to that of a stock (iron block) slant 6... but that defeats the whole comparison.
To the OP:
As said, do what you wanna do. Sometimes it's for no reason other than "that's what I want/like". Damn the torpedos, full steam ahead... You don't need any other reason than that, as long as you're aware of the practicalities and your own possible limitations (abilities, finances, availabilities).
 
This would fit too



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Professor Fate said:
I like them both, and they both have their own pros and cons; but I really wish people would stop comparing weight between a stock iron headed, iron manifolded small block to an aluminum headed, manifolded and T.C.ed big block. Keep it apples to apples. Throw the same equipment on a small block- aluminum heads, manifold, etc. and the weight difference is still gonna be there; just at lower numbers.
Heck, throw an aluminum block and enough other parts into the 440 and you can probably get the weight down to that of a stock (iron block) slant 6... but that defeats the whole comparison.
To the OP:
As said, do what you wanna do. Sometimes it's for no reason other than "that's what I want/like". Damn the torpedos, full steam ahead... You don't need any other reason than that, as long as you're aware of the practicalities and your own possible limitations (abilities, finances, availabilities).
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Indy Aluminum block 472 carb to pan 480 lbs. :D
 
You have a fresh 440, and a tired 360.
If you just had the 360, and needed a 440, the answer is simple, build the 360.
But I suspect you WANT the 440, or you wouldn't have bought it and freshened it.
Put the 440 in it.

If I had a 360 that I could stroke to 408, that's what I would put in my Barracuda (67 notch). Since the only small block I have is a 273 2bbl, and I have a 511 laying around, it's gonna get a big block.
 
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Build what keeps you motivated. I have a small block in an a body and love it. If I built a second I think I would be more motivated to have a forced induction /6 with a stick shift over a big block/auto but that is just ME. The small block will always be easier but based on your post it just really sounds like you want the big block and there is nothing wrong with that, it's been done a million times. Just remember to build the car that will keep you looking back at it in the parking lot as you walk into the grocery store.
Good luck!
 
FWIW...

I LOVE 440's and have one in my 69 Charger. 292/.509 purple cam. Love the torque output and the higher-end power. Nothing like that little pad up front designating it's a 440!! 4200 #'s of full street car and mid-12 sec passes. Fun, fun fun!!

THEN I built the 408 for my avatar. Wow, instant believer in stroker motors. This thing would eat my 440 for breakfast! The 4" arm vs the 440's 3.75" arm makes for torque that just makes you grin. And if yours is truly a hot street car, isn't that what it's all about?? I didn't build mine for all-out power but it makes enough to run low 11's in my avatar street/strip car. Sure, the 440 could be built or stroked to make the same/more torque. Or more power. Or bump the power up on the 408. Blah, blah, blah.

If it was mine, I'd do a SB stroker. If you're heart is set on a BB, a B stroker would be awesome!
 
I built my 500 RB Stroker Dart because I always wanted one. My Ragtop is a 340. Much easier wrenching the SB. Big block with TTI headers make starter access real tough. I am currently working on my torque converter. You can't easily drop the tranny. This was the best way. My 340 isn't that fast but I have a 360 I'm thinking of stroking next.

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4mulas said:
don’t know if you know what you’re now arguing. Your video on cylinder head Wright verifies my weight estimate of a pair of big block heads at 102 pounds….

the rest of this is just math:

Aftermarket aluminum big block heads are about 60 pounds for the pair.

a stock assembled RB weight is approximately 670 pounds.

a stock assembled 360 LA is approximately 550 pounds.

That’s a difference of 120 pounds making the LA lighter.

even if you shaved 40 pounds off an RB by using aluminum heads it still makes the 360 LA LIGHTER by about 80 pounds…

All of this is just the engine. Keep in mind the rest of everything else behind and around the big block also weighs more too.

big blocks are cool, I have them too, and will have more and all of this is to each their own. But small blocks in an A body is easier to work on and lighter

EDIT; fyi, the original video of that’s 408 weight shows it has all the front end accessories and motor mounts and Everything on it too. all my comments involved stock weights. Furthermore if you want to compare apples to apples put all that whizZy aluminum stuff on the small block and make the comparison equal it will weigh LESS….
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Point is, there isn't a "massive" amount of difference. 440 source heads are factory design and are really only a little more than re-doing the factory cast. Just in that, were only talking about a 15 - 30 lbs difference on a RB block. So, while I'm not arguing to stick the 440 in there (I actually said the 360 for his intended purpose), there is not this massive- "can't turn a corner without tipping the car over" difference that so many make it out to be. There is more of a difference between a small block with AC than the RB. We think nothing of the factory AC as far as handling, the RB is really less than that of a difference.
 
standup303 said:
Good Morning all, so I was B’s deep in my 74 Dart Swinger, planning on a 440 swap…along came a sweet 69 Swinger with a 360 that I bought and now selling the 74.

I bought a 440 builder, tore it down and had it bored .030 over, cam/crank tunnels aligned, new cam bearings, completely balanced, have new pistons, the a body oil pan kit, Schumacher headers, cam.

But the 360 is in there, I do need to get the correct flex plate as there is a bit of a vibration, and it’s a tired motor.

Now I’m not sure if I want to:

Just refresh the 360 with new gaskets, bearings, rings, new cam. And possibly do a torqstorm supercharger down the road.

Go 408 stroker.

Or just do the 440.

I’d love the 440 but now I’m concerned with how much of a bit*h it would be to work on after already working on the 360 a bit.

It’s just a street car to cruise/ haul a** around in.

Just curious on opinions or those who have been in the same shoes?

Also, I wouldn’t be selling the 440, I would keep it and one day find a W-150 or maybe even B body to toss it in.
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Power is for speed.
it takes power to push wind, so if you are a dragracer, you have that basic target to achieve; and more to get there quicker.
But for your stated purpose, a street car is limited somewhat to being a two-gear car that tops out at around 65 mph.
Furthermore, your Swinger, unless you perform some sheetmetal surgery, is limited to about 255/60-15 tires..... which a stout 318 can annihilate in first gear, at least. Therefore;
IMO, you can just build to a modest powerlevel at a modest stall.

The 360 is already overkill to 255s; but what you can do with a stout 360 is gear it up to cruise at a lower rpm , which affords a lower rear gear, than a 318 would need for the same/similar amount of tire-frying/haulingazz. Ima guessing one>two sizes smaller; so similarly built, whatever a 318 can do with 3.91s, a 360 can do with 3.55s, and with careful aforethought, maybe even with 3.23s. This opens the door to a more comfortable hiway cruising experience.
This continues with a BB, but the economy factor cannot keep up with lowering cruise-rpm because of the difficulties of maintaining engine efficiency as the rpm falls. and as said 255s negate the BB edge entirely.
However, if you modify your Swinger to not spin forever, well then all bets are off. And even the 360 is gonna need help in the traction department; 255s are just not gonna cut it at WOT.

All your Swinger really needs, is to install a stout Big-Bore 318 or a 340/5-speed stick, and gear it to redline in Second gear, at or near 60 mph. This would haul plenty of azz . If you solve the traction issue, then a 360 would be gravy, and you can trade the 5-speed for a Four, and regear again.

These are my opinions, based on my experience with the SBM.
As a streeter, I have never wanted more than a small-block. My modest but high-compression, 367 goes 93 in the Eighth, at 3457 pounds with me in it, and with 3.55s; so what streeter needs more? This is not a brag, rather a reference point, and possibly the upper edge target of azzhauling. IMO, it is waaaay overkill, lol.

Well I should also add that my experience began with 111"wb cars back in 1970, and they are a beotch to keep straight with skinny back tires spinning. Well not so much straight as, when they get off-line, they tend to wag their tails, which can get ugly in a hurry, and my Swingers all did it. Which is why I switched to the big-tubbed 108wb cars, and specifically the fastback Barracuda which carries some extra weight just about right over the rear axle. My cars spend a lot less time in the bodyshop now. Well to tell the truth, none of my 108s have I crashed.... lol.

I got no dog in this hunt so whatever you do, is cool.
 
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It sounds like it's mainly for the street, get the 360 running best possible and go over the brake system and suspension and if you go stroker 408 or 440 you need to get the power to the ground unless you just want to go up in smoke, that's fun too. I've had mild 340 and 440's in A bodys, with the extra squeeze button when wanted, I just had to put larger slicks for the 440 to hook up, pick you poison and have fun. I pick mild 440, spend the cash on the suspension to make what you chose to work how you want to drive.
 
Professor Fate said:
I like them both, and they both have their own pros and cons; but I really wish people would stop comparing weight between a stock iron headed, iron manifolded small block to an aluminum headed, manifolded and T.C.ed big block. Keep it apples to apples. Throw the same equipment on a small block- aluminum heads, manifold, etc. and the weight difference is still gonna be there; just at lower numbers.
Heck, throw an aluminum block and enough other parts into the 440 and you can probably get the weight down to that of a stock (iron block) slant 6... but that defeats the whole comparison.
To the OP:
As said, do what you wanna do. Sometimes it's for no reason other than "that's what I want/like". Damn the torpedos, full steam ahead... You don't need any other reason than that, as long as you're aware of the practicalities and your own possible limitations (abilities, finances, availabilities).
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The point is no one is saying a stock small block is too much weight so by time you swap intake headers etc.. on the big block the weight is similar to the so called acceptable stock sbm weight.
 
Flip a coin. One has a little more wow factor opening the hood and the other fits the car better.
 
I like no replacement for displacement stops at 360, he's stated a minor 360 rebuild vs an already almost done 440 short block. So what's with this 408 or 400+ hp 360 yes he pointed maybe down the road, it's between a 360 that needs a rebuild or a half rebuilt 440, with most of the swap parts including headers.

With what you got now the 440 gonna make more power be more streetable need less gear.
Could buy aluminum heads for the cost of the 360 refresh. But do what you want either way.
 
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I like when people build a 400+ cid small block and act like it's still a small block and somehow they won with an underdog, yes technically you got a physical sbm but if we're comparing engines with heads that have similar power potential eg.. 600 hp what's the difference 340 vs 440 vs 543 vs 416 they're all gonna be capable of 600 hp just at different rpms.


But for the OP building a streetable say .9 to 1.2 hp per cid

360 = 325 to 430 hp
445 = 400 to 535 hp

And a refreshed 360 ain't gonna be making over 400 hp

The OP dealing with what he's got now not some imaginary 408 build, plus why spend money on a sbm stroker kit when he could put that money towards a great top end for his already rebuilt 440 short block.
 
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273 said:
I like when people build a 400+ cid small block and act like it's still a small block and somehow they won with an underdog, yes technically you got a physical sbm but if we're comparing engines with heads that have similar power potential eg.. 600 hp what's the difference 340 vs 440 vs 543 vs 416 they're all gonna be capable of 600 hp just at different rpms.


But for the OP building a streetable say .9 to 1.2 hp per cid

360 = 325 to 430 hp
445 = 400 to 535 hp

And a refreshed 360 ain't gonna be making over 400 hp

The OP dealing with what he's got now not some imaginary 408 build, plus why spend money on a sbm stroker kit when he could put that money towards a great top end for his already rebuilt 440 short block.
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Stroked small blocks, in my mind that's what makes the 383 and 400 a small block in today's world, only with a bigger bore and short stroke
 
273 said:
I like when people build a 400+ cid small block and act like it's still a small block and somehow they won with an underdog, yes technically you got a physical sbm but if we're comparing engines with heads that have similar power potential eg.. 600 hp what's the difference 340 vs 440 vs 543 vs 416 they're all gonna be capable of 600 hp just at different rpms.


But for the OP building a streetable say .9 to 1.2 hp per cid

360 = 325 to 430 hp
445 = 400 to 535 hp

And a refreshed 360 ain't gonna be making over 400 hp

The OP dealing with what he's got now not some imaginary 408 build, plus why spend money on a sbm stroker kit when he could put that money towards a great top end for his already rebuilt 440 short block.
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It's all in the bore and stroke and nothing else. You pretty much said it.
 
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