Original?? really??....

[Dartnut]

So, if i read between the lines here, a lot of people would have their panties in a bunch about the '67 Barracuda 383 car used as the prototype for the Super Stock Hemi Barracudas back in late 1967.
Chrysler R&D people, what a bunch of hacks.
Then there's the famous Mr. Norm ripping out 383s in his Dart GTS cars to build 440 models and re badging them as GSS Darts in '68.
Then there's the rare A-990 cars turned into altered wheelbase cars.
Don't forget about the multitude of Hemi, 440, 383, and 340 cars butchered and modified for the drag strips when they were nearly new.
Okay and cool then, but blasphemy today?
I just don't get it.........
3 million for a HemiCuda convertible i do get, it's all about the money and rich people trying to show off that they have it, bragging rights if you will.
It's certainly not because they want to drive and enjoy the car.
Not at all.
Those are the people that make me sick in the hobby.
Maybe a lot of you don't remember the '60s and the '70s when these were ''just cars'' and a basis for modification as the great ''Mother Mopar'' intended them to be.
Sheeesh.

 

[gilberttitan08]

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/5158367525.html

I really hate when people sell a car that they don't really know $&%* about.

1967 Formula S 383 car, was a rare car til they *##@#$ it up..

-#'s matching? Believe it when I see it. Do you know how many 67-69 383 blocks did not get stamped?#-o

So, a 4 speed 383 fastback with rare rear defogger.

-Factory rallye wheels? Uhh from 1970....

-aluminum heads. great for other cars, not this one. :finga:

-MSD Ignition. uhhh better figure out what you have cuz it aint that....:sign3:

-Coil and ECU mount on fenders, straight up tacky? Are you an idiot?:wack:

-Woodgrain on the console, yeah not a 67' option dude...

-Rear valance is wrong for a 383 car. :banghead:

-Chrome alternator... Did you do an ammeter bypass? Probably not...:violent1:

-Aluminum radiator and electric fan? Did you add relay(s)?


You would have been better off doing all of these upgrades to a non Formula S and save this for a correct resto. What a waste of a real collector car, I dont care if its yours or not.

Call me a dick, I dont care.... at least I tell it like it is.



-

Dude, who cares. Is he trying to sell it to you? No, so why do you have your panties in a bunch?

 

[gdrill]

So, if i read between the lines here, a lot of people would have their panties in a bunch about the '67 Barracuda 383 car used as the prototype for the Super Stock Hemi Barracudas back in late 1967.
Chrysler R&D people, what a bunch of hacks. LOL! That's a good one!
Then there's the famous Mr. Norm ripping out 383s in his Dart GTS cars to build 440 models and re badging them as GSS Darts in '68.
Then there's the rare A-990 cars turned into altered wheelbase cars.
Don't forget about the multitude of Hemi, 440, 383, and 340 cars butchered and modified for the drag strips when they were nearly new.
Okay and cool then, but blasphemy today?
I just don't get it.........
3 million for a HemiCuda convertible i do get, it's all about the money and rich people trying to show off that they have it, bragging rights if you will.
It's certainly not because they want to drive and enjoy the car.
Not at all.
Those are the people that make me sick in the hobby.
Maybe a lot of you don't remember the '60s and the '70s when these were ''just cars'' and a basis for modification as the great ''Mother Mopar'' intended them to be.
Sheeesh.

Man, you just always have to be so realistic!



But well put.

 

[Bad Sport]

So, if i read between the lines here, a lot of people would have their panties in a bunch about the '67 Barracuda 383 car used as the prototype for the Super Stock Hemi Barracudas back in late 1967.

No, not at all.

Again, the seller in the ad is mis-representing the car for sale. Numbers matching in 67? Really?

 

[clinteg]

I feel that certain cars do have historic value. Take a low option car and do what you want. For the sake of history, keep rare, one off cars as they were.
I just dont like seeing a car that has significant historic value either butchered or just plain not thought about as anything other than another car. Some people are so stubborn they get the "Its my car, Ill do what I want". If your going to change it so much, why does it matter that you started with a big block, hemi, etc. car to begin with?

My car was a 318, so I did what I want. My buddy has a very highly optioned 68 Formula S 340/4 speed car. He and I both think that his car should remain more stock, and mine I can do what I want with it.

maybe some people love to say "this used to be a hemi car" or , "This used to be a real Z28, but I put an LS1 in, that 302 sucked..."

I'm far from a purist, but I have to agree 100% here. If it's a rare car, please stop butchering them (unless they are too far gone then that's different). If you got an original slanty like me, mod that car and butcher it up as much as you want. But leave the rare ones alone. That's all.

 

[Dartnut]

I don't condone modifying ''survivor'' type cars whether it's a big block or a slant 6 for history purposes.
But, to most people, it's all about the money.
If the HemiCuda convertible is selling for 3 million as it is and would bring 4 million with a 6-71 blower sticking out of the hood, i bet you wouldn't see many left original.
How this all ties in with the car in question in this thread is IMHO, the car would be a lot more fun to drive, own, and would sell for more in it's present state than an original 100% restoration.
That being said, the ad is misleading on several points and descriptions.
That's what doing your research is all about when buying a car like this, and a lot of people don't even know what the word ''restoration'', ''numbers matching'', and ''original'' really mean so you just have to take it with a grain of salt.

 

[chryslerfat]

So, if i read between the lines here, a lot of people would have their panties in a bunch about the '67 Barracuda 383 car used as the prototype for the Super Stock Hemi Barracudas back in late 1967.
Chrysler R&D people, what a bunch of hacks.
Then there's the famous Mr. Norm ripping out 383s in his Dart GTS cars to build 440 models and re badging them as GSS Darts in '68.
Then there's the rare A-990 cars turned into altered wheelbase cars.
Don't forget about the multitude of Hemi, 440, 383, and 340 cars butchered and modified for the drag strips when they were nearly new.
Okay and cool then, but blasphemy today?
I just don't get it.........
3 million for a HemiCuda convertible i do get, it's all about the money and rich people trying to show off that they have it, bragging rights if you will.
It's certainly not because they want to drive and enjoy the car.
Not at all.
Those are the people that make me sick in the hobby.
Maybe a lot of you don't remember the '60s and the '70s when these were ''just cars'' and a basis for modification as the great ''Mother Mopar'' intended them to be.
Sheeesh.

Dont forget all the fools that took the original tires off and didnt save them. lol

 

[seabee]

It is definitely an interesting subject. As the U.S. wealth gap widens and baby boomers cross into retirement the classic car (or Muscle Car to be more specific) is turning from weekend warriors and shade tree hobbyists into collector eye candy and mid life crisis toys.

Were peoplein the 50's/60's collecting and restoring numbers matching 20's era vehicles?

 

[Dartnut]

No, not at all.

Again, the seller in the ad is mis-representing the car for sale. Numbers matching in 67? Really?

Why can't it be a matching numbers car?
Before they stamped the V.I.N.s on cars engines and transmissions the criteria used was casting dates and part numbers.
Just like say a carb, exhaust manifolds, or an alternator in subsequent years after they started putting V.I.N.s on blocks, then that left those parts without any way of identifying it to the car other than the aforementioned date codes and part numbers.
That's how the big buck older Corvette guys do it, and it is acceptable to them.
Documentation is very important on these cars.
Then there's the factory warranty replacement stuff like blocks etc. that goes into the debate.......
Where does it end?

 

[Bulldozer]

I get into this all the time with people.

I don't care what anybody says , so many chevy dudes need some way to justify that their vettes are worth a 1/2 a million dollars so they use a "date code" to call it "numbers matching" when in fact most CANNOT prove DEFINITIVELY that, that exact engine came in that exact car without a SPECIFIC ID number stamped on that engine block that matches that EXACT vehicle. pre 68 mopars fall into that category. date code blah blah blah, that "date coded" engine block could have came from any similar vehicle built within that time frame and CANNOT be proven to match that exact car without a VIN stamped on it.

you have a "matching numbers" 67 barracuda 383 car with the original engine ?

prove it

shown me a number on that block that matches an identical number on that body. you cant.

do you think for one minute that hemi cuda would bring 3.5 million dollars if nobody could match that hemi and transmission to the body with EXACT number stampings and based only on a basic time frame? I highly doubt it

 

[redfastback]

Back in the day is different than today. Yes I do agree that back then they were just cars, and people did what they did, totally fine by me. A car that was modded on Day 1, day 2, etc, should be restored that way. That is preserving the heritage of why these cars are so great to us in the first place.

What I have a problem with is TODAY. There aren't many left so all I am saying is let's preserve the rare, performance, high option cars as they were. There are enough slant 6/318 cars to build it how you want it.

And yes, as Bad Sport says, the seller is MISREPRESENTING the car. For those of who are all F*&$ken butthurt "this is why I don't make a thread of my car", we all are interested in the execution of your build. So sack up and wipe away your tears, we all have opinions are are allowed them..

I even like the Valiant build with an LS1 in it. Why?? Totally different. My good friend has a 91 Fox Body Mustang with a Turbo'ed LS in it pushing 1098 HP to the rear wheels. I have ridden it and love it. Remember all the low buck cars are for building the car of your dream....leave the other ones alone.

Again, JMHFO....

 

[redfastback]

What's funny is that there are more supposedly documented 427 67' Vettes than they actually made...hmmmmmm.......

I get into this all the time with people.

I don't care what anybody says , so many chevy dudes need some way to justify that their vettes are worth a 1/2 a million dollars so they use a "date code" to call it "numbers matching" when in fact most CANNOT prove DEFINITIVELY that, that exact engine came in that exact car without a SPECIFIC ID number stamped on that engine block that matches that EXACT vehicle. pre 68 mopars fall into that category. date code blah blah blah, that "date coded" engine block could have came from any similar vehicle built within that time frame and CANNOT be proven to match that exact car without a VIN stamped on it.

you have a "matching numbers" 67 barracuda 383 car with the original engine ?

prove it

shown me a number on that block that matches an identical number on that body. you cant.

do you think for one minute that hemi cuda would bring 3.5 million dollars if nobody could match that hemi and transmission to the body with EXACT number stampings and based only on a basic time frame? I highly doubt it

 

[NH69Valiant]

Would you take this 3 million dollar Hemi Cuda and modify it?

There are a number of rare muscle cars in the world…and then, in its own league, there’s the Plymouth Hemi Cuda convertible. These Plymouth's are all things powerful, fast, and stylish, and today—given the incredibly low production numbers for convertible models—they’re also incredibly valuable.



A “holy grail” 1971 Hemi Cuda convertible sold at auction last year for $3.5 million, and this drop-top example, one of just 14 built in 1970, may be able to repeat that staggering feat. It will cross the auction block next week at Mecum Auctions’ 2015 Monterey sale, and is expected to gavel for between $2.5 and $3 million.


While that may seem like a huge chunk of money for an “Elephant engine” Hemi Cuda, this one has a particularly unique story to tell.

Sold for $2,250,000.00 before Fees.

 

[Bad Sport]

Sold for $2,250,000.00 before Fees.

Yup, that would have been a good candidate to hack up and resto mod, after all it's just a car. (SARCASM) :banghead:

 

[autoxcuda]

So, if i read between the lines here, a lot of people would have their panties in a bunch about the '67 Barracuda 383 car used as the prototype for the Super Stock Hemi Barracudas back in late 1967.
Chrysler R&D people, what a bunch of hacks.
Then there's the famous Mr. Norm ripping out 383s in his Dart GTS cars to build 440 models and re badging them as GSS Darts in '68.
Then there's the rare A-990 cars turned into altered wheelbase cars.
Don't forget about the multitude of Hemi, 440, 383, and 340 cars butchered and modified for the drag strips when they were nearly new.
Okay and cool then, but blasphemy today?
I just don't get it.........
3 million for a HemiCuda convertible i do get, it's all about the money and rich people trying to show off that they have it, bragging rights if you will.
It's certainly not because they want to drive and enjoy the car.
Not at all.
Those are the people that make me sick in the hobby.
Maybe a lot of you don't remember the '60s and the '70s when these were ''just cars'' and a basis for modification as the great ''Mother Mopar'' intended them to be.
Sheeesh.

BTW the rumors of the R&D Super Stock Hemi Barracuda being a 67 is untrue.

It's a 68 car. And Bob Tarrozzi told me himself was pulled from the "test pool". Same pool they cut up cars to make engineering test rigs for 1000's of cycles of doors opening and closing. I wonder if that car today actually has a vin tag?

 

[autoxcuda]

Are those cars even worth 50K in totally restored condition?

You mean totally restored to stock condition with excellent quality?....

NO.

$35K car tops.

The ad is misleading saying this car is a "restoration" It's a modified car.

This car was for sale before and posted on FABO, IIRC. The picture were in front of a house in the country and not So Cal. Also don't think it was $50K either.

 

[redfastback]

I agree to point. Remember back then cars were just new cars at the time. Now with mostl likely less than 50% left of cars left and we now have HISTORIC value added in, it changes everything. It is not 1968 anymore. Those cars were just like a new GT500 Mustang that Roush or Saleen took and modified. I love cars built in all fashions, whether 70's period correct, Pro Touring, Pro Street, Stock muscle look, etc. Just a sense of awareness of what platform we start off with.

So, if i read between the lines here, a lot of people would have their panties in a bunch about the '67 Barracuda 383 car used as the prototype for the Super Stock Hemi Barracudas back in late 1967.
Chrysler R&D people, what a bunch of hacks.
Then there's the famous Mr. Norm ripping out 383s in his Dart GTS cars to build 440 models and re badging them as GSS Darts in '68.
Then there's the rare A-990 cars turned into altered wheelbase cars.
Don't forget about the multitude of Hemi, 440, 383, and 340 cars butchered and modified for the drag strips when they were nearly new.
Okay and cool then, but blasphemy today?
I just don't get it.........
3 million for a HemiCuda convertible i do get, it's all about the money and rich people trying to show off that they have it, bragging rights if you will.
It's certainly not because they want to drive and enjoy the car.
Not at all.
Those are the people that make me sick in the hobby.
Maybe a lot of you don't remember the '60s and the '70s when these were ''just cars'' and a basis for modification as the great ''Mother Mopar'' intended them to be.
Sheeesh.

 

[Dartnut]

I agree to point. Remember back then cars were just new cars at the time. Now with mostl likely less than 50% left of cars left and we now have HISTORIC value added in, it changes everything. It is not 1968 anymore. Those cars were just like a new GT500 Mustang that Roush or Saleen took and modified. I love cars built in all fashions, whether 70's period correct, Pro Touring, Pro Street, Stock muscle look, etc. Just a sense of awareness of what platform we start off with.

I also agree with you to a point.
Everyone has their opinion and perspective.
I'm on the fence with a car that i own that is a rough, mostly stripped ex race car.
Part of me wants to pass it on to someone that will restore it properly, and the other part says to continue with it as is and tub it and build a Hemi Super Stock clone.
The car in question is a '69 Barracuda Formula S 340 console auto, white and black interior, Y2 yellow with black stripes. It's not very rusty, but is butchered bad in the floors and rear wheel tubs. The awful cage has been sawsalled out. It has no engine, trans, rear end, or interior other than the dash and door panels. It does have the fender tag, V.I.N. still on the gutted dash, and rad support. I have no way of finding the original parts like engine, trans, and rear end for this car, and it seems to have been built in the mid '70s from what i can tell.
What would you do?

 

[Bad Sport]

Everyone has their opinion and perspective.

And there it is.

This doesn't apply to you, but rather a few other comments in this thread.

The other comments suggest that theirs is the only right one, all others that differ aren't allowed an opinion, it's wrong because it doesn't match theirs, it happens every time one of these discussions get started.

In the case of your already butchered car, do it the way you want. The car in the OP, could and should have been brought back to original because most of it was there, or at least appears to be.

Again, that's my opinion. We can't save every pup in the pound, but certainly some of them should be.