Overheating -- Corrective measure questions.

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RustyRatRod said:
Not in my opinion, no. You'vet got majority of the core exposed. So all of the water going through it will be exposed to airflow since it's moving. It's up to you. Some do it and some don't. I wouldn't.
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my crossflow tanks are still behind the cradle , wonder if cutting the cradle to expose the tanks would help ???
 
furyus2 said:
What I noticed, was you don't have a hood seal. That keeps the air from going around the radiator, instead of through it. Also, if the radiator is too far from the core support, have the rad mounts cut off, and welded on in the proper place. This might put the rad where the shroud will work.
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I even made a total sealer for between the cradle and front grill housing , like all new cars have , so no air can go anywhere else , no opinion on it so far-------------
 
Kent mosby said:
I have just read the rather lengthy and well detailed thread on overheating and yet I still have some questions and did not want to hijack that thread.
I have a 1973 plymouth scamp with a 512 that always ran under 200* while moving. This past weekend I went to a car show Car d'Lane and during the Friday cruise it was 90*. The cruise was more of a crawl. In about 30 minutes I travelled maybe a mile. My temp steadily climbed to 251* according to the sniper readout. Nothing blew and I pulled off the route. As soon as I got it on the road at about 35 mph it dropped to 205 within a couple miles. I obviously need to correct this issue asap.
My cooling specs are.
180* Mr. Gasket 4367 high flow, high performance thermostat
Mopar 7 blade fan. crank to fan pulley ratio,, .95:1
Griffin performance 8-00038 26.5x18 2 row with 1.25 inch tubes
3871088 mopar 8 blade water pump.
7 psi radiator cap
Shroud, Homemade by me but looks appropriate,,, let me know
There is a 10x12 inch trans cooler in front of the radiator.

Since the radiator cools appropriately when the car is moving and at the race track, I assume that I have enough radiator but not enough coolant and/or air flow at low speed or idle. Correct???
Now for the corrective measures. Our race track closed so I do not need a cooling system for that purpose. I am now making the car a street/show driver. Slow speed cooling is a must.

My thoughts to improve things are that I could overdrive the water pump by changing pulleys?? And/or get a different one but this one is supposed to be good.

I could switch to electric fans controlled by the sniper efi but that would require that I change the alternator to a 90 amp from 60 and I would have to change the radiator as this one is 3 inches thick and it sticks out from the core support by an inch leaving only 2 inches from the water pump pulley to core.

I could get an electric water pump that may save some space. In AndyF's book he states that the electric pumps are ok for racing but will not keep up for street use. Any experience on this? Good or bad idea?

I could change the thermostat to a 160 milodon high flow model.

Anyone use a pusher fan in addition to this setup for street use??

I tried to gather as much info as possible before posting but I may have missed something. What would you do to correct the slow speed cooling issue?View attachment 1715754294 View attachment 1715754295 View attachment 1715754296 View attachment 1715754297 View attachment 1715754298
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A whole bunch like my stuff , get the rad. up against the cradle where all air has to come thru the rad , even seal it w/ thin window insulation. .
I have front pusher fan , set to come on at 205 if I remember right . I just switched to thermal barrier coated headers to help w. the '' really hi'' engine bay heat. View attachment 1715754653
yelow rose , andy f. , and stansblunblu have a lot of knowledge on this stuff !!
I experimented w/ this cooling problem all last summer , if ur pumping out big h/p , forget the all elec. fan thing , tho some have got good results w/ ford contour fans , thats about the only thing i didnt try. A belt driven mech. fan is about 7-8 degrees better than a clutch set up too , ''on mine ".
yellow rose said:
You can NOT underdrive the pump that far. You have a kick *** radiator. As RRR said, you NEED a Flowkooler pump and some overdriven pulleys. And a Stewart Components thermostat. There is nothing like it on the market. These are the old Robert Shaw thermostats.

You’ve got most of what you need with the radiator. Now you need a couple of little thangs and you’ll be pooping in the tall cotton.

EDIT: I forgot to mention you need to throw the shroud away and use a spacer to get the fan about an inch away from the radiator. If you get it that close, you want need a shroud. It will be close enough to the radiator to pull plenty of air at idle (if you get the pump speed, and by mechanical connecting the fan speed up where it should be) to keep it cool at at high speeds the shroud won’t be packing air.
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Now the no shrous thing , is one thing I did not try >hymmm
 
Kent mosby said:
I originally bought the radiator for use on a run stand. I just happened to try it and i squeezed it in there. You can see that there is a 3-4 inch gap under radiator where air passes around and the top 4 inches are blocked by the core support. The trans cooler will be relocated. I need a properly fitted radiator If I expect it to work.
View attachment 1715754515 View attachment 1715754516 View attachment 1715754517
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I cut the mounting flanges off and had 1 1/2'' angle welded on the sides to get the rad. fush w/ the cradle .
 
bob mCcarty said:
A whole bunch like my stuff , get the rad. up against the cradle where all air has to come thru the rad , even seal it w/ thin window insulation. .
I have front pusher fan , set to come on at 205 if I remember right . I just switched to thermal barrier coated headers to help w. the '' really hi'' engine bay heat. View attachment 1715754653
yelow rose , andy f. , and stansblunblu have a lot of knowledge on this stuff !!
I experimented w/ this cooling problem all last summer , if ur pumping out big h/p , forget the all elec. fan thing , tho some have got good results w/ ford contour fans , thats about the only thing i didnt try. A belt driven mech. fan is about 7-8 degrees better than a clutch set up too , ''on mine ".


his fan doesnt look to have as much offset on the blades as mine ---??
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The lack of offset or pitch is why I posted a pic of my fan. It seems pretty flat to me.
 
Another thought that came up when removing the shroud. I have a chin scoop that completely blocks air flow under the bumper to the radiator. Should I remove it or drill a dozen or so 1.5 inch holes to direct air up to the radiator? Will it make a difference? I am awaiting a new radiator, water pump, Crank pulley ,WP pulley and shroud.
IMG-0974.jpg

img-1835-jpg.jpg
 
Kent mosby said:
Another thought that came up when removing the shroud. I have a chin scoop that completely blocks air flow under the bumper to the radiator. Should I remove it or drill a dozen or so 1.5 inch holes to direct air up to the radiator? Will it make a difference? I am awaiting a new radiator, water pump, Crank pulley ,WP pulley and shroud.View attachment 1715755170
View attachment 1715755171
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Take the front bumper off
Look at all the air you would gain.
Not recommended for safety
 
Update on the progress. I finished installing the FlowKooler pump, Bigger pitch fan, High Flow thermostat, Cold case radiator and relocating the Trans cooler. Unfortunately I had to keep the pulleys that I had from 440 source. Slightly underdriven at .95:1 ratio I think. Today it is 95 degrees out. I started the car and idled it for 20 minutes. It got to 210 maybe 212. I then took it for a mildly spirited drive for 10 minute on the backroads up to 60 but mostly about 45 mph. The temp dropped down to 180 and stayed there. When I got back I then let it idle for another 10 minutes and it went to 210. So far this sounds like a win. I also installed cowl rubber piece and the radiator core rubber piece to seal the hood to cross member.

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Kent mosby said:
Update on the progress. I finished installing the FlowKooler pump, Bigger pitch fan, High Flow thermostat, Cold case radiator and relocating the Trans cooler. Unfortunately I had to keep the pulleys that I had from 440 source. Slightly underdriven at .95:1 ratio I think. Today it is 95 degrees out. I started the car and idled it for 20 minutes. It got to 210 maybe 212. I then took it for a mildly spirited drive for 10 minute on the backroads up to 60 but mostly about 45 mph. The temp dropped down to 180 and stayed there. When I got back I then let it idle for another 10 minutes and it went to 210. So far this sounds like a win. I also installed cowl rubber piece and the radiator core rubber piece to seal the hood to cross member.

View attachment 1715763152 View attachment 1715763153 View attachment 1715763154 View attachment 1715763155 View attachment 1715763156
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SOUNDS LIKE U GOT A HANDLE ON IT , BUT I DONT AGRE W/ THE COWL SEAL THING , NEED TO LET THE ENGINE BAY HEAT OUT . I HAVE CHROME VENTS ALONG SIDE A 6 PACK SCOOP , THE ENGINE BAY HEAT HAS STARTED MELTING /DISTORTING THEBPASS. SIDE VENT.--DISREGARD CAPS !
 
Is that fan in #50 picture facing the right way? With the curved tips bent that way? Mine is facing the other way. I may be wrong. Just questioning. Thanks.
 
My questioning concerned the curve at the tip of the blade. The way it is facing would allow the air to fall away from the blade. If the curve is the other way, it would pull more air. Also the fan frame work is on the flow side of the blade. I think it should be on the back side. Still just observing.
 
Kent mosby said:
Update on the progress. I finished installing the FlowKooler pump, Bigger pitch fan, High Flow thermostat, Cold case radiator and relocating the Trans cooler. Unfortunately I had to keep the pulleys that I had from 440 source. Slightly underdriven at .95:1 ratio I think. Today it is 95 degrees out. I started the car and idled it for 20 minutes. It got to 210 maybe 212. I then took it for a mildly spirited drive for 10 minute on the backroads up to 60 but mostly about 45 mph. The temp dropped down to 180 and stayed there. When I got back I then let it idle for another 10 minutes and it went to 210. So far this sounds like a win. I also installed cowl rubber piece and the radiator core rubber piece to seal the hood to cross member.

View attachment 1715763152 View attachment 1715763153 View attachment 1715763154 View attachment 1715763155 View attachment 1715763156
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What temp thermostat did you go with, Kent? Also do not remove that front air dam, dammit. lol That's helping you. It does exactly what you said. Keeps air from going under the car. It pushes air that would normally go under the car back out in front and right into the grill, givin the radiator more air flow.
 
RustyRatRod said:
What temp thermostat did you go with, Kent? Also do not remove that front air dam, dammit. lol That's helping you. It does exactly what you said. Keeps air from going under the car. It pushes air that would normally go under the car back out in front and right into the grill, givin the radiator more air flow.
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It is a 160 high flow thermostat. Not sure the number but it was a stewart-emp. I will replace the dam after I get the cam straightened out.
 
Kent mosby said:
It is a 160 high flow thermostat. Not sure the number but it was a stewart-emp. I will replace the dam after I get the cam straightened out.
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I forgot to ask.....where have you had the initial timing set?
 
RustyRatRod said:
I forgot to ask.....where have you had the initial timing set?
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I think 15*. I was working with Richard Nedbal from EFIexpert.com who did the remote tune. He could not verify it but he adjusted and rechecked.
 
Kent mosby said:
I think 15*. I was working with Richard Nedbal from EFIexpert.com who did the remote tune. He could not verify it but he adjusted and rechecked.
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Forgive me for a million questions....what's the static compression ratio?
 
10.5 -10.7 Can't remember exactly. I replaced a head gasket with a cometic thinner one and went from 10.3 with a .051 to I think .027 cometic. I can check my paperwork if needed
 
AJ/FormS said:
The leading edge needs to be the closest to the rad so, #50 is correct, for an engine that turns clockwise as viewed from the front bumper.. You had me going for a bit ...
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Just Ron said:
My questioning concerned the curve at the tip of the blade. The way it is facing would allow the air to fall away from the blade. If the curve is the other way, it would pull more air. Also the fan frame work is on the flow side of the blade. I think it should be on the back side. Still just observing.
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I too believe the "frame" of the fan, where it the blades attach, typically is on the radiator (upwind) side of the fan. Flex-a-lite website confirms this. Swapping the fan's mounting will still put the leading edge toward the radiator, but the curve will cup the air and draw harder. Is there a chance?

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You're right.
to clarify;
my fan is the same style as the one in Post#72 above, and oriented the same. Right or wrong, it works perfectly on my 367, with a thermostatic clutch even.
 
Correct or not, it seems the fan would be more efficient if using the curved tip to scoop the air vs allowing it to run off the back of the blade. This appears to be a Chevy fan design. I would agree the fan spacing in the shroud is incorrect. The fan blade should 1/2 inside the shroud and 1/2 outside the shroud.

upload_2021-7-14_13-57-40.png
 
Would the curved tips be for reducing noise or turbulence? Kinda like the tips of airliner wings to reduce wake turbulence>
 
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