Pertronix rtr distributor vs. ignitor III

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magnumdust

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I'm looking to upgrade my ignition system and i've settled on pertronix as a quality budget ignition system, but the question is, which should i go for, the nice billet distributor or just the ignitor system? I'm sort of leaning towards the ignitor for the sake of having a rev limiter.

Also, do i need a points distributor for the ignitor system or can i convert the current electronic distributor?
 
You can convert your existing electronic distributor.
 
If you already have a breakerless distributor, why mess with Pertronix. Buy yourself an off the shelf good quality GM HEI module and wire it up

The module has a "tit" on the bottom, which you either need to file off or else drill a clearance hole in your mount. It needs a heat sink, but I'm just running mine on a flat spot on the firewall!!!

Here's the diagram. Mounting holes are ground, and you MUST hook the dist. connections up as shown

On the other hand, you already have??? a Mopar electronic igniton? A Pertronix is not really an upgrade from that!!!

zu5qn8.jpg
 
67Dart273 said:
If you already have a breakerless distributor, why mess with Pertronix. Buy yourself an off the shelf good quality GM HEI module and wire it up

The module has a "tit" on the bottom, which you either need to file off or else drill a clearance hole in your mount. It needs a heat sink, but I'm just running mine on a flat spot on the firewall!!!

Here's the diagram. Mounting holes are ground, and you MUST hook the dist. connections up as shown

On the other hand, you already have??? a Mopar electronic igniton? A Pertronix is not really an upgrade from that!!!

zu5qn8.jpg
Click to expand...

hmm now there's an interesting idea.

Sure pertronix isnt an upgrade if you're ignition wiring looks solid. Mine is questionable. This this the rats nest wiring I have along with a rusted chrome box.

So i had figured it might be easier to just remove all the ratty firehazardy wiring for a simple two wire connection.
 

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The 8-pin GM HEI module and coil is easiest and cleanest, and will give more spark than your factory ignition. Can toss your clumsy 4 terminal ballast resistor. TrailBeast here sells a new kit for $99 or cheap at the junkyard (85-95 GM V-8 trucks).
 
BillGrissom said:
The 8-pin GM HEI module and coil is easiest and cleanest, and will give more spark than your factory ignition. Can toss your clumsy 4 terminal ballast resistor. TrailBeast here sells a new kit for $99 or cheap at the junkyard (85-95 GM V-8 trucks).
Click to expand...

I think i'm gonna try my luck at the yard or get a cheap module off rockauto. I did a little google searching on the topic and i'm probably gonna go that way. It looks like i'll be into the whole setup for maybe 50 bucks doing it myself. Which is a lot more appealing that 250-300 for a billet distributor.
 
What's the best way to add on rev limiting?
 
You didn't mention your engine and year. For anything but a slant, you can get a "ready-to-run" HEI distributor for $45 - $80 on ebay. However since you have an e-distributor, wiring an 8-pin GM HEI module & coil is simple and cheap. Any junkyard should have 85-95 GM V-8's. You need junkyard first to get the cables and connectors. A new spare module is then $15. Don't know much about rev limiters, but understand there many just attach to the coil.
 
Here is my take for a rev limiter for HEI ignitions. HEI ignitions typically do not require ballast resistors because coil current is safely limited by the HEI circuit. Most rev limiters hook to the coil (-) and by grounding keep the ignition from firing, since spark happens when the coil current is interrupted. Since the coil current is no longer HEI controlled, it will greatly exceed coil specifications when rev limiting.

An example is 0.5 Ohm e-core coil with a normal peak current of less than 6 A, may peak to 28A when the rev limiter is operating. The high current may cause the coil to fail, or the greater than normal ignition voltage ( when stepping out of limit) may damage a HEI unit.

If the rev limiter does not have a current limit, a standard two terminal ballast resistor could be placed in series with rev limiter connection to the coil (-).

Integrated rev control ignitions may incorporate current limit, and better controls retard timing, for rev or traction control.
 
Well i decided to go for the HEI. Spent a few hours at the junkyard today, found a 4pin hei module and the appropriate plug/wiring, which turned out to be the hardest thing to find. By a stroke of luck on my way out i ran into a dodge truck(that was in pieces) and it was the one dodge in the lot with the plug i needed.
 
I bought a Pertronix III and their recommended high-output low-resistance E-coil from Summit. The car runs terrible after it warms up. I don't know why, but it pissed me off and my car's been parked for the past 3 months. I've done all kinds of testing, including running a voltmeter to the input wiring and driving around the city, watching the voltage. Then I ran a special jumper wire to the distributor itself. The distributor module is triggered off the distributor's points cam! I never got a good feeling when I opened up the Pertronix box and installed the unit, realizing there was no slip-on reluctor used.

Triggered off the points cam?! I just don't see how that's a solid and accurate triggering device. Man, I wish I never spent the $175 for the Pertronix III and the coil. My car runs so bad after it's warmed up, that I'm worried it will even make it home!
 
KitCarlson said:
Here is my take for a rev limiter for HEI ignitions. HEI ignitions typically do not require ballast resistors because coil current is safely limited by the HEI circuit. Most rev limiters hook to the coil (-) and by grounding keep the ignition from firing, since spark happens when the coil current is interrupted. Since the coil current is no longer HEI controlled, it will greatly exceed coil specifications when rev limiting.

An example is 0.5 Ohm e-core coil with a normal peak current of less than 6 A, may peak to 28A when the rev limiter is operating. The high current may cause the coil to fail, or the greater than normal ignition voltage ( when stepping out of limit) may damage a HEI unit.

If the rev limiter does not have a current limit, a standard two terminal ballast resistor could be placed in series with rev limiter connection to the coil (-).

Integrated rev control ignitions may incorporate current limit, and better controls retard timing, for rev or traction control.
Click to expand...


Whoa - glad I caught this. I was just about to purchase a MSD Soft Touch for use with my GM HEI mod. Back to the drawing board.....
 
Jabdusty57,
I looked at the install guide for the msd, it looks like it will work if used to ground the pickup signal +.
 
rrvolare said:
Cudavert did you call there techline? Did you eliminate the resistor?
Click to expand...

Yes, I called them. They asked me the questions about things I'd already checked. Yes, I'm giving it full 12v, the coil and the module. Weird. I'm going to change the plugs and wires just for the hell of it and see what that does.......and swap out the carb too. It just sounds very "ignition-ish" like a bad power connection, but it's not.

Someone told me (on another forum) that if you don't open up the spark plug gap to over .040, it will run like sh** with a Pertronix III. Now.....I really doubted that, but this guy on the other forum said he doubted it too, but sure enough, it worked for him. So that's something I might as well try.
 
Cudavert,

I also would be concerned about using the distributor cam for Hall sensing. There are a few things wrong with that.
1. A good trigger needs a target with a sharp transition. A cam profile is just the opposite.
2. The target should be anealed, low carbon steel. Cams are surface hardened high carbon.
3. The small diameter results in inherent timing errors, in conjunction with slop and mechanical tolerance.
 
The Ignitor III and the ecoil would be a great combination if rev limiting is needed/wanted.
 
Eff Pertronix. I've heard a lot of people slam them (some of my friends had weird intermittant missing @ idle that they tracked down to poorly-designed Pertronix II units), but since I never had a problem, I stood up for them. No more. It just bugs me to have thrown away $175.
 
cudavert said:
I bought a Pertronix III and their recommended high-output low-resistance E-coil from Summit. The car runs terrible after it warms up. ... The distributor module is triggered off the distributor's points cam!
Click to expand...

Interesting. I have never seen their new Ignitor III. Sounds like a step backwards. I think all their prior designs have a special ring that slips over the distributor cam. I recall an old electronic conversion that used a photo-detector shone off the cam surfaces to trigger, that was sold in the J.C. Whitney catalog. Never saw one in person. Maybe Ignitor III uses that type of pickup. I bought the more expensive Crane XR700 long ago that uses a special slotted plastic plate that slips over the cam. They claimed 0.1 deg repeatability (suspect). I had the IR emitter fail in one, and they require keeping the ballast resistor, so an older technology like the Mopar ECU.
 
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