Piston pin offset "controversy"

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Cuda416 said:
huh? Because the info is in "old books" it doesn't apply? LOL... whoa boy...

Also, it's never been said to "add" power, only "free up" low end power. Balancing an engine was in the old books too.
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Do whatever ya want. If using 50 year old parts in your competition race engine use the old books. Roadkill garage basically said No one racing is using old parts and there is no proven power gain, they also challenged Tony to prove a gain. He won't not unless someone donates the dyno their time and labor.
 
This is one reason, not the only reason, why some have "speed secrets". So many are upset if somebody doesn't share what they know. And then, somebody shares "their opinion and secrets" and they are shredded to bits. Humans, I tell ya.... LOL :D
 
Dartswinger70 said:
Do whatever ya want. If using 50 year old parts in your competition race engine use the old books. Roadkill garage basically said No one racing is using old parts and there is no proven power gain, they also challenged Tony to prove a gain. He won't not unless someone donates the dyno their time and labor.
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I fail to see where you prove the information presented is wrong...
 
Dartswinger70 said:
Do whatever ya want. If using 50 year old parts in your competition race engine use the old books. Roadkill garage basically said No one racing is using old parts and there is no proven power gain, they also challenged Tony to prove a gain. He won't not unless someone donates the dyno their time and labor.
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Why does Tony have to prove what others did and wrote before his time?? Why don't the roadkill guys do a disclaimer test themselves??? Why do the Roadkill/Motor Trend guys watch UTG ???? Aren't they busy enough with their own show??? I'll tell ya, when Motor Trend and Roadkill Exra is talk'n about ya, you know you made it !!!!! And Steve Dulcich loves UTG, he wrote it himself just last week :)
 
318willrun said:
This is one reason, not the only reason, why some have "speed secrets". So many are upset if somebody doesn't share what they know. And then, somebody shares "their opinion and secrets" and they are shredded to bits. Humans, I tell ya.... LOL :D
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For the record I'm not shredding anyone. I watched Roadkill and UTG videos and am passing on what I comprehended to be going on. It's probably just YT back and forth banter probably like we do on here LOL!
 
318willrun said:
Why does Tony have to prove what others did and wrote before his time?? Why don't the roadkill guys do a disclaimer test themselves??? Why do the Roadkill/Motor Trend guys watch UTG ???? Aren't they busy enough with their own show??? I'll tell ya, when Motor Trend and Roadkill Exra is talk'n about ya, you know you made it !!!!! And Steve Dulcich loves UTG, he wrote it himself just last week :)
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@318willrun Shhhh! You're not supposed to do anything that looks like you don't hate UT...
 
318willrun said:
Why does Tony have to prove what others did and wrote before his time?? Why don't the roadkill guys do a disclaimer test themselves??? Why do the Roadkill/Motor Trend guys watch UTG ???? Aren't they busy enough with their own show??? I'll tell ya, when Motor Trend and Roadkill Exra is talk'n about ya, you know you made it !!!!! And Steve Dulcich loves UTG, he wrote it himself just last week :)
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Tony doesn't have to prove it, but that was the call out. Tony could do it. Send his engine to Nicks garage, spend a day or three up there, do the video. It would be fun to watch.
 
318willrun said:
Why does Tony have to prove what others did and wrote before his time?? Why don't the roadkill guys do a disclaimer test themselves??? Why do the Roadkill/Motor Trend guys watch UTG ???? Aren't they busy enough with their own show??? I'll tell ya, when Motor Trend and Roadkill Exra is talk'n about ya, you know you made it !!!!! And Steve Dulcich loves UTG, he wrote it himself just last week :)
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And if you get a couple different You Tube channels talking about each other it brings awareness to them and others. I see it on the Whiskey taster channels I watch. Get a little rivalry going on and soon everybody's numbers go up. Look at us, we are talking about it behind the scenes and every link that is posted the numbers there go up.
 
You guys seem to interpret alot as "hate" that's pretty harsh. Any of yas vets,been deployed actually know what hate is?
 
Dartswinger70 said:
Tony doesn't have to prove it, but that was the call out. Tony could do it. Send his engine to Nicks garage, spend a day or three up there, do the video. It would be fun to watch.
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I call you out. I want your engine with all the new, high grade performance parts disassembled and pictures of everything. Then I want you to ship it to Nicks Garage and have it Dyno'ed. Has to be Nicks. Then put cheap parts in it to prove your expensive parts made the difference. Get started today. You don't have to prove anything,, but you are called out. :poke:
 
If someone makes a claim, with no data, it's a opinion, not fact. We all have opinions.
 
replicaracer43 said:
If someone makes a claim, with no data, it's a opinion, not fact. We all have opinions.
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Couldn't agree more.

That said, this isn't UT's claim it's DC's... That's part of the problem, for me anyway. UT said something that has been around for literally decades and pushed by DC many,many years ago, and all of a sudden, he's the target for someone to bash. Doesn't matter who it is, if there is data to prove DC wrong, people should argue with those folks....
 
I dont think anyone is bashing UT, I think it was said that there is no real verifiable gain, and since he repeatedly claims it works, they would like to see a back to back test to prove the theory. I'd like to see that also
 
replicaracer43 said:
I dont think anyone is bashing UT, I think it was said that there is no real verifiable gain, and since he repeatedly claims it works, they would like to see a back to back test to prove the theory. I'd like to see that also
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Fair enough, but DC should be the ones to prove it. That's my point. Someone else here, already said they did it and DID see a gain which I'd chalk up to "freed up power" in the lower rpm band. I don't see how reducing firction, in any way shape of form isn't going to result in a "real" benefit. if we're nitpicking, why use loose bearings, why balance an engine, why use different sized pullies, etc. All anyone has to do is build an engine, dyno it, then chnage the pistons around in the SAME ENGINE with NO OTHER changes and dyno again. If there is ANY change as to where the power develops and/or how much, DC is right and UT is too. I'm willing to assume (yeah I know) he's maybe tried it at one point in his life and saw even a seat of the pants change, or he'd probably not parrot it. Maybe he would, but one thing is certain, this is and was DC's claim and they published docs for it. it's also in a few of the small block rebuilding for perf books. They all wrong too?

You and I have gone a few rounds before and I will say again, you have WAY more experience than I do, as do a LOT of people here, as does UT. As far as no one bashing UT, I would say the OP seemed to be looking for a reason to start a shitstorm, YET AGAIN, with UT in the middle. There's plenty of bashing and no one really has put together anything to discount anything he's said. The one thing everyone seems to NOT like is he does things differently and seems to be having fun. Oh the horror....

I'm not bitching AT you, just TO you and anyone else reading.
 
Ya, probably why no one does the swap with a before and after dyno session is because, like mentioned before, it's a moot point. Very few stock bore/stick piston engines around any more and aftermarket pistons aren't offset much if any. Heck, finding a original engine that you could do the test on is next to near impossible. Even bead honing the bores before the swap could skew the results.
 
I think your reading it the wrong way, it's not to create a "**** storm" it's to create a discussion, that can possibly benefit everyone who reads it.
 
replicaracer43 said:
I think your reading it the wrong way, it's not to create a "**** storm" it's to create a discussion, that can possibly benefit everyone who reads it.
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I would agree with you if the history wasn't there.

And if the (EDIT: Forgot who I was talking to, loil) You went the route of something like "hey, UT was talking something people used to do and DC supported, what do you guys think... " instead of the way it was presented... lol
 
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The factory performance guys figured it out. It was in the Mopar performance books written by them. (and not Hot Rod Magazine) so I doubt is was a myth. It needs to be proven but like I said above, finding the right engine with the factory pistons in it would be next to impossible.
 
toolmanmike said:
The factory performance guys figured it out. It was in the Mopar performance books written by them. (and not Hot Rod Magazine) so I doubt is was a myth. It needs to be proven but like I said above, finding the right engine with the factory pistons in it would be next to impossible.
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Now they zombies are going to come after you... dang it
 
replicaracer43 said:
I dont think anyone is bashing UT, I think it was said that there is no real verifiable gain, and since he repeatedly claims it works, they would like to see a back to back test to prove the theory. I'd like to see that also
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actually, UTG said he'd like to do it at the track. Make a couple passes, tear down, reverse the pistons, re-assemble, and make more passes on the same day with the same engine. He did say if MT would pay for it, he would perhaps be interested in bringing the gaskets and crew to get it all done. I think that's fair....
 
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