Poll for Minimum Torque for a performance street Machine?

[missing linc]

1970 Buick GS 455 Stage 1, 510 ft lbs off the showroom floor. THAT will roast the tires!

 

[toolmanmike]

1970 Buick GS 455 Stage 1, 510 ft lbs off the showroom floor. THAT will roast the tires!

They needed that much. Nice cars but they were tanks.

 

[273]

You thought somebody might think that a 318 is enough...... you put 320 on the list to vote for !!!!

I didn't anyone would vote lower than that a 2bbl 360 dynos 340 lbs-ft, my guess it around 330-350 on a dyno that people would choose.

 

[AJ/FormS]

IMO;
At speeds below 50 mph;
it really really really depends on your gear ratios, the weight of the vehicle, and the application.
I voted 360 minimum, cuz it allows a three-speed Torqueflite and 3.23s
But;
What I actually want is a minimum of 400ftlbs x roadgear of ~6.8 (manual trans), in a car weighing up to 3600 pounds(me in it). Doing the math, that comes to ~.75 ftlb per pound of mass to be moved, at 40>45mph. This is where the fun is, I can always lift if it's too much. But if it's not enough and I run out in mid-turn, aborting can be embarrassing if not dangerous.
400 ftlbs at 3500 works out to 267hp. By 4000, it is up to 305hp
It took me a lotta time to find the right Roadgear for my little 367.
Whereas with a BB or a stroker , you can just put it in Drive and go, then dial in whatever you need, by throttle-position..........
Too much Torque?
For a NA SBM, not stroked, in a big-tubbed A-body, I don't think there is such a thing. But a boosted 360/or a stroker, could be serious overkill, in any small-tubbed Dart.

These are my opinions

 

[AJ/FormS]

BTW
I have had numerous stock 340s, some nearly new, and with gear ratios from 3.23 to 4.10. Once you get them into a roadgear of say 3.91 or so, they were all done pulling in the midrange. I could always feel when mine started to nose over. On the street, with traction, you gotta gear them just right to survive the 1-2 shift, and if you don't, they will just lay down. Which is real embarrassing when a correctly geared 318 car comes along and blows you off.

Yeah sure they pull at 5000, but with a roadgear of 3.91, that works out to around 100 mph, which, last time I checked, is not street territory.

BTW-2
the hi-compression 318's were rated 320 ftlbs at 2400, whereas
the hi-compression 340's were rated 320 but @3400.
What any of them actually made, is anyone's guess, cuz everybody seemed to be lying about those kinds of things back in the day.

Jus saying

 

[TT5.9mag]

I’ll take +700 for the whole curve.

 

[junkyardhero]

Never weighted it, but it's not the shorty (it's full size) with a full size bed in the back, and a bunch of other junk dead hookers Wouldn't know where to guess it.... I'll have to weigh it sometime.

ftfy.

 

[junkyardhero]

View attachment 1716213807
I’ll take +700 for the whole curve.

the HP is impressive, but man... that torque curve... somebody fetch my fainting couch!

 

[junkyardhero]

1970 Buick GS 455 Stage 1, 510 ft lbs off the showroom floor. THAT will roast the tires!

They needed that much. Nice cars but they were tanks.

my 73 centry/regal was luxo barge deluxe and the smogger 455 with a crower RV cam would absolutely melt tires at will. it had a mountain of torque and it wasn't super fast by any stretch of the imagination, but boy was it fun to sneak one in on people. never saw it coming, curb feelers and all!

 

[Ottmundr]

Just curious what would you consider minimum acceptable torque in the 3500-4500 rpm range for a decent street machine ? What would you consider ideal torque in the 3500-4500 rpm range ? And is it possible to have too much torque ?

I'm talking in the street not on a track.

Boom! Beer me.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/318-small-block-build/

 

[66 Sat]

The poll needs to be in bigger increments, say 300 lbs/ft, 350, 400 etc.
Who here can feel the difference between 320 and 330 lbs/ft?
If it's your car maybe, but in general terms? No one.
My vote is enough torque to make the car feel light, however much it weighs. To have that push in the back, like a big hand just pushing you down the road.

 

[doogievlg]

BTW
I have had numerous stock 340s, some nearly new, and with gear ratios from 3.23 to 4.10. Once you get them into a roadgear of say 3.91 or so, they were all done pulling in the midrange. I could always feel when mine started to nose over. On the street, with traction, you gotta gear them just right to survive the 1-2 shift, and if you don't, they will just lay down. Which is real embarrassing when a correctly geared 318 car comes along and blows you off.

Yeah sure they pull at 5000, but with a roadgear of 3.91, that works out to around 100 mph, which, last time I checked, is not street territory.

BTW-2
the hi-compression 318's were rated 320 ftlbs at 2400, whereas
the hi-compression 340's were rated 320 but @3400.
What any of them actually made, is anyone's guess, cuz everybody seemed to be lying about those kinds of things back in the day.

Jus saying

In your opinion what have you found to be the best road gear. I know there’s thousands of factors going into that (converter, tire size, powerband, etc) but for a stock stroll small block what neighborhood are you in?

 

[a-bodyguy]

BTW
I have had numerous stock 340s, some nearly new, and with gear ratios from 3.23 to 4.10. Once you get them into a roadgear of say 3.91 or so, they were all done pulling in the midrange. I could always feel when mine started to nose over. On the street, with traction, you gotta gear them just right to survive the 1-2 shift, and if you don't, they will just lay down. Which is real embarrassing when a correctly geared 318 car comes along and blows you off.

Yeah sure they pull at 5000, but with a roadgear of 3.91, that works out to around 100 mph, which, last time I checked, is not street territory.

BTW-2
the hi-compression 318's were rated 320 ftlbs at 2400, whereas
the hi-compression 340's were rated 320 but @3400.
What any of them actually made, is anyone's guess, cuz everybody seemed to be lying about those kinds of things back in the day.

Jus saying

340s were 340 lb ft@3200

 

[85glht]

I voted the max... You will never have enough

 

[273]

I voted the max... You will never have enough

Guess the point is the least acceptable where an engine has enough to start to be considered a performance engine at street rpms 2500-4500, that's why I'm ask torque this is where torque generally gonna peaks on a street engine, you got slow then peppy then performance then many levels of performance.

 

[85glht]

Guess the point is the least acceptable where an engine has enough to start to be considered a performance engine at street rpms 2500-4500, that's why I'm ask torque this is where torque generally gonna peaks on a street engine, you got slow then peppy then performance then many levels of performance.

Trust me, it's a disease. You'll always want more... but take my advice... There will always be someone faster, so be happy with what you have. It will get expensive...quick

 

[273]

On the dyno a stock 340 only dyno'd 328 lbs-ft with bolt-ons got up to 411, it's safe to say a stock 340 is a performance engine.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/mopp-0102-1970-340-high-performance-mill-dyno/

Phase 1: Stock 340 baseline, Chrysler electronic ignitionPhase 2: Replace small production AVS with Edelbrock 800 CFM carbPhase 3: Replace factory HP manifolds with Hooker 151/48-inch headersPhase 4: Replace factory iron 340 HP intake with Edelbrock Performer RPM Air GapPhase 5: Replace SSI springs and retainers with Engle #604LS retainers and #993 springsPhase 6: Replace stock 340 HP cam with Comp Xtreme Energy 268

Dyno Results
Westech Performance Group
Superflow Dyno
Horsepower
RPM	Phase 1	Phase 2	Phase 3	Phase 4	Phase 5	Phase 6
3000	185.2	195.5	199.6	206.4	206.2	214.7
3200	195.4	206.1	213.9	220.7	220.8	229.3
3400	208.9	224.6	233.0	240.6	240.5	251.5
3600	224.8	238.7	252.7	260.8	259.9	275.7
3800	236.4	253.7	266.6	277.0	276.9	298.1
4000	249.5	267.6	280.0	291.8	291.8	311.7
4200	259.3	278.9	292.9	306.0	306.2	327.1
4400	265.0	287.1	304.3	321.3	321.3	344.6
4600	268.8	297.2	313.3	335.2	334.7	355.9
4800	274.7	306.8	321.1	343.1	342.5	366.7
5000	278.5	312.7	329.1	352.6	350.4	377.0
5100	280.2	316.9	330.6	354.5	352.4	381.3
5200	281.3	316.9	330.8	353.6	353.6	384.3
5400	273.7	314.9	329.3	350.8	355.4	386.1
5500	273.5	313.9	330.4	350.7	355.9	387.4
5600	269.3	314.5	330.2	350.9	353.5	389.4
5700		312.7	329.3	348.6	353.3	391.6
5800		308.8	326.2	347.6	351.4	387.2
6000				329.2	353.4	383.7
6200					314.8	373.7

Show Less

Torque
RPM	Phase 1	Phase 2	Phase 3	Phase 4	Phase 5	Phase 6
3000	324.2	342.3	349.5	361.4	361.0	375.8
3200	320.7	338.3	351.1	362.3	362.3	376.4
3400	322.7	347.0	359.9	371.6	371.5	388.4
3600	328.0	348.2	368.7	380.4	379.1	402.2
3800	326.8	350.7	368.4	382.9	382.7	412.0
4000	327.6	351.3	367.6	383.1	383.1	409.3
4200	324.3	348.8	366.3	382.7	382.9	409.0
4400	316.4	342.7	363.2	383.5	383.6	411.4
4600	306.9	339.3	357.7	382.7	382.1	406.3
4800	300.6	335.7	351.4	375.4	374.8	401.3
5000	292.6	328.5	345.7	370.4	368.1	396.0
5200	284.1	320.1	334.1	357.2	357.1	388.1
5400	266.2	306.3	320.3	341.2	345.6	375.5
5600	252.6	295.0	309.7	329.1	331.7	365.2
5800		279.6	295.4	314.8	318.2	350.6
6000				288.1	309.3	335.8
6200					266.7	316.6

Show Less

 

[85glht]

Imagine with decent heads what that would do...

 

[toolmanmike]

390/411 are good numbers for a Xtreme Energy 268 That's not that big of a cam really.

 

[273]

90's 5.0l mustang is probably the minimum performance engine you can get and they dyno 306 lbs-ft stock. But a 273 commando dynos 280 lbs-ft which is about the same as a stock 318 but commando generally came in early A's wonder the performance lost when installed into the later A's.

 

[318willrun]

90's 5.0l mustang is probably the minimum performance engine you can get and they dyno 306 lbs-ft stock. But a 273 commando dynos 280 lbs-ft which is about the same as a stock 318.

Just keep in mind, dyno numbers vary, and it can be pretty substantial.

 

[273]

Just keep in mind, dyno numbers vary, and it can be pretty substantial.

True but most of these came from Westech so they should be somewhat compatible to each other, this is far from perfect

 

[Icetech]

I only want 350-400.... with 4.57s and my car should be about 3200# i don't need crazy torque.. Plus i'm realistic about my goal of just beating it on the street, stoplight fun is bout it..

 

[273]

I only want 350-400.... with 4.57s and my car should be about 3200# i don't need crazy torque.. Plus i'm realistic about my goal of just beating it on the street, stoplight fun is bout it..

That's a 318, Not a 390 ? Either way should be easy

 

[Icetech]

That's a 318, Not a 390 ? Either way should be easy

right now it's a 318 with trick flows, roller cam and rpm intake (was worried bout hood clearance).. i think a lot of guys needing 700+ tq/hp haven't had that on the street or are doing mostly strip where it makes more sense. but that's just an opinion.