Poll - Which would you build?

To get 350-400 HP what would you build?

  • Build the 318 with 302 heads

    Votes: 32 16.0%

  • Build a 346 using the 318 block and MP stroker crank

    Votes: 23 11.5%

  • Build another 360

    Votes: 145 72.5%
  • Total voters
    200
  • Poll closed .
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superdart

superdart

Shade Tree Tinker Gnome.....
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This is sort of hypothetical. I currently have a 350-ish hp 360 in my car. It was a budget build with largely stock/used parts. I will not get in to details since it's not the focus of this post. My question is, if something were to happen to it (go boom) what would everyone build?

Keep in mind my purpose is a fun road car...350-400hp max...nothing more. It is not a race car will probably only ever see the strip to see what she'll do.

I currently have a standard bore 318 block (1985 casting) and a set of 302 casting heads. Also, I have a NIB MP forged 3.55" stroker crank for a 318.
The current installed 360 is already .30 over and has 596 heads with a very mild port and polish, slightly stiffer springs and some low buck ($180) roller rockers. Assume everything will need to be machine/reworked for a build to keep things even.

The options:

1) Build the 318 using the 302 heads to hit my target hp stated above.

2) Build a 346 stroker using the 318 block, MP crank, and heads off the 360.

3) Get another 360 and build that.

Option 2 seems like the obvious choice from an "already have parts" perspective. Except I would need to do extra machining on the heads and intake to make it work, and considering the target HP, would be a waste, as might Option 3.

Am I missing anything? Vote Away!!!!!
 
If you build the stroker won't you need different pistons? Thus would raise the cost.
 
JEff has a point. Unless the extra money spent is not an issue.

I myself, (Being broke) would take the 360 out and have the bores checked. If it'll just take a quick hone, I'd do that, re-ring the pistons and install a different cam for a new power curve.

That's what I would do.
 
jefflock said:
If you build the stroker won't you need different pistons? Thus would raise the cost.
Click to expand...

rumblefish360 said:
JEff has a point. Unless the extra money spent is not an issue.

I myself, (Being broke) would take the 360 out and have the bores checked. If it'll just take a quick hone, I'd do that, re-ring the pistons and install a different cam for a new power curve.

That's what I would do.
Click to expand...

Jeff and Rumble are on point here. Keep it simple and build another 360. The HP level you're looking for is too easy to reach with a mild 360 to consider doing anything else. Sell the stroker crank, and build a fresh 360.
 
360 seems to be winning.

Keep in mind this scenario assumes that my current 360 would have suffered catastrophic failure and would no longer be usable. As long as it's in good running order I plan to keep using it.

That being the case, are people saying it's more cost effective to acquire another 360 than to build the 318/302 head combo I already have? I was under the impression 400hp was very do-able with a 318.
 
HotLines said:
I would build a internally balanced forged crank 360 with a turbo
Click to expand...

Hmmm...I don't seem to remember that being one of the options...LOL.

Feets fought his for years before he got it working well. That is not a road I choose to go down. I want simplicity and reliability.:cheers:
 
360 is the cheapest option. 302 heads will need porting to reach your goals so more$$ unless you do the work. The stroker is a good option but you would need to cut a crank and find some pistons , again more $$. Plus balancing costs etc etc.

I vote 360
 
wow tough question!!!
after carefully reading and re-reading your post several times over and giving it a lot of thought I think I would go with the 346 stroker build, and here is why

1: you are only building a backup engine to have in the unlikely event something happens to your 360

2: your current 360 is already at your target HP with no problems

3: you already have the MP forged stroker crank, and any build will require buying pistons and machine work

4: if your block came with 302 heads then it should be roller cam

5: time is on your side, there is no rush to finish the build so you can take your time and do it right,

6: the increased compression over your stock 360 combined with a roller cam should easily out perform your current setup

my thoughts on option 1 and 2

option1: put the 318 back together and use it while you re build your 360, then put the fresh re built 360 back in

option2: why buy another 360 when you already have one, see option1
 
needsaresto said:
360 is the cheapest option. 302 heads will need porting to reach your goals so more$$ unless you do the work.
Click to expand...

I have no experience with head work, so yes, this is an added expense. I didn't know how much work would be needed.

needsaresto said:
The stroker is a good option but you would need to cut a crank and find some pistons , again more $$. Plus balancing costs etc etc.
Click to expand...

The crank is factory and already has the correct 318/340 journals.
P4529711 is the part number.
 
Sounds good on the crank. Pistons????? for this combo may be tricky. There is a thread on this built,449 on the cheap or something like that. It's in the teck section and may help.
 
I like the look of your Dart in the avatar/signature pics.
I can totally understand your dilemma and I might be able to offer some useable info in this discussion.

If you want 350-400 (CrankHP), that is SUPER EASY,..318/360..Either one.

If you want 350-400 (RearWheelHP) that is a toss up.

We all know the 318 has a 3.91" bore, 340 rod and crank specs.
We all know the 360 has 4.00" bore, 3.58 stroke and slightly different crank journal diameters.

The flexplate, torque convertor, transmission, driveshaft, ring and pinion, axles, lugs and rear wheels will absorb 15-20% of a given Engines' Torque with a manual transmission, and UPTO 35% with a Automatic transmission....thats just the pure physics of it.

To overcome drivetrain losses for a Hp Goal, one must calculate needed airflow for a desired output.

The most powerful stock 318 was listed at 200 Bhp.
The most powerful stock 360 was listed at 275 Bhp.

We should all know the shortfalls of the factory Air Induction, and Exhaust by now, so I wont go into the gains that are there.

Basically what I am saying is....to achieve 350-400 Rwhp, you will need 460-550 at the crankshaft. To do that you will need Air, and Fuel. The engine that will make your desired Hp with the least amount of work will be the 360.

I voted for you to build another 360. If you specifically look for a 88-91 Dodge D250, Van or Truck in a wrecking yard you will find a Roller Cam 360 Longblock, with 308' casting heads, and that will provide you with a longblock that has the capabilities of making 550-600 crank Hp and idle and Drive like a OEM V8 when not Roaring.

Nice car BTW.
 
I am just taking a stab in the dark at 400hp because my current engine is suppose to be 350hp (I didn't build it) and it's plenty fun to drive, so I figure in the event a replacement becomes necessary a small upgrade wouldn't hurt.

I know I said I wouldn't get in to it, but this is what I have right now:

360 .030 over
Cast crank (cut .010)
9:1 pistons on stock rods
596 heads, mild P&P, roller rockers
625 Carter/Edelbrock Airgap intake
FBO ignition
Doug Herbert E3N 455/475 hydraulic cam
Ceramic long tube headers w/ 1-5/8 primaries
2.5" exhaust with Edlebrock RPM mufflers

Thanks for the compliment. She's not as pretty in person (yet) lot of paint and interior work to be done.
 
360. Big torque, small package. Easiest power makin small block in my opinion. The front of your car looks nice! I like the grille / lights.
 
I think i would sell the forged crank and use the money to rebuild or build a new 360, that crank would be overkill in what Hp your looking to make. i've ben running a stock bottom end 360 with zero deck cp116 hyper pistons for 10 year and about 11K miles, making about 420hp with ported j heads.
 

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superdart said:
This is sort of hypothetical. I currently have a 350-ish hp 360 in my car. It was a budget build with largely stock/used parts. I will not get in to details since it's not the focus of this post. My question is, if something were to happen to it (go boom) what would everyone build?

Keep in mind my purpose is a fun road car...350-400hp max...nothing more. It is not a race car will probably only ever see the strip to see what she'll do.

I currently have a standard bore 318 block (1985 casting) and a set of 302 casting heads. Also, I have a NIB MP forged 3.55" stroker crank for a 318.
The current installed 360 is already .30 over and has 596 heads with a very mild port and polish, slightly stiffer springs and some low buck ($180) roller rockers. Assume everything will need to be machine/reworked for a build to keep things even.

The options:

1) Build the 318 using the 302 heads to hit my target hp stated above.

2) Build a 346 stroker using the 318 block, MP crank, and heads off the 360.

3) Get another 360 and build that.

Option 2 seems like the obvious choice from an "already have parts" perspective. Except I would need to do extra machining on the heads and intake to make it work, and considering the target HP, would be a waste, as might Option 3.

Am I missing anything? Vote Away!!!!!
Click to expand...

Stroker would be cool, but with the 360 heads you'd have to shave them quite a bit to get a decent compression ratio. A 318 with 302 heads would be fine (i'm doing the same thing, only with a 1973 block) get yourself a rotary tool and port them heads keep keep around 9.0-9.5 CR and you could get 350 horse easy. In my setup I am going to run a less duration cam because I'm using a ThermoQuad and you need a good vacuum signal to get the secondaries to work right. It also keeps your dynamic ratio higher to get some torque. I just picked up a TQ for $10 off Ebay. Shipping was more than the price I paid, gonna have to do some modding on it because its a 1978 model for that damn lean burn crap they had in 77-79. 1 3/8 primaries though. Probably going to E-mail Demon Sizzler and see what I can do, definately going to rebuild it and change the o-rings and gaskets and whatnot. Floats are probably shot but we'll see.
 
Failure beyond re-ues? Crack a block?

Why is it even listed if it is beyond use then?
 
I know your poll didn't include it, but why not go the 340 route? Would be sweet in your car and between the 318 & 360 you should be able to cobble together a spec 340 with a few aftermarket Helpers...just a thought
 
Ya the 3.55 crank in a 340 should be around 372 ci or so depending on the overbore.
 
Thats a good article,has been rewritten by Dulcich for mopar muscle.

Proven engine build!
 
Flashback said:
I know your poll didn't include it, but why not go the 340 route? Would be sweet in your car and between the 318 & 360 you should be able to cobble together a spec 340 with a few aftermarket Helpers...just a thought
Click to expand...

Interesting thought, but 340 blocks are not getting any easier to come by, and I have no particular attachment to the displacement.

EL5DEMON340 said:
Ya the 3.55 crank in a 340 should be around 372 ci or so depending on the overbore.
Click to expand...

But again, with a target of 400hp this would be a waste of cash.

badsport said:
I have been considering this recipe. I currently have the original teen in my Dart Sport. For a street car I think it would be a blast. Especially when you whip up on some chebby 350 and pop the hood and say it's only a 318. LOL
Click to expand...

I had seen this article before, and it is what got me thinking of the 318 thing to begin with. I already have some of the parts listed in that article (Airgap Intake, 302 heads, block) which makes it even more cost effective.
 
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