Ported Slant 6 head

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I can answer that for ME. It may be the same for Ed, I don't know. First, I don't dislike turbo anything. It's a quick, easy and a lot of times inexpensive way to go fast. I also really like the turbo builds that you and others are doing and have done with slants.

All that said, my opinion on it is that I like the challenge of making an engine "down on two cylinders" run fast naturally aspirated. True, it may never run like a turbo slant. It can be respectable nonetheless. I just prefer naturally aspirated engines. I always have. I've built some forced inducted stuff for other people and there always seemed to be some witch doctor tuning issues to get them just right. With naturally aspirated stuff, just slap on a good matched carburetor tune it and go. To make a naturally aspirated slant fast requires a lot of work and smart parts choices as well as expert tuning, patience and time. It's something to really be proud of because of the challenge. All this is my opinion, so feel free to argue away, you're not going to change my mind. lol

For what you're going to use this car for, I think you're doing the right thing. You'll have a quick little car that you can jump into and not worry about blowing a head gasket, or anything else. It should live a long, healthy life on the street, providing a lot of grins for you in the process.

I hear what you're saying about the tuning issues that can crop up with turbo motors.

Because our car is pretty much a "race car, only" deal, I'm hoping that carburetion won't be too much of a problem, but if we were going the strsst/strip route, it would probably have a multi-port fuel injection system on it for tuneability.

Keep us posted on your progress; that cylinder head is a magnificent starting point!:cheers:
 
You might take a look at Rance EFI. He is like the guru of EFI. He's gotta nice multi port setup for the Clifford or Offy intake.

Here's his site: http://rancefi.com/
 
And here is his example for the slant:
 

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And here is his example for the slant:

Wow.... lookls "inviting!" :)

But the learning curve and my age are probably not going to be a marriage made in Heaven... LOL

I think I NEED to stick with a carburetor for now, at least.

But, that sure looks good... REAL good!:D
 
I've talked to Rance a couple of times. Once very recently and he is supposed to be sending some info on it. He simple said to me, "If you have a laptop and know what rich and lean is, you can install and program my systems".
 
I've talked to Rance a couple of times. Once very recently and he is supposed to be sending some info on it. He simple said to me, "If you have a laptop and know what rich and lean is, you can install and program my systems".

So even a Caveman (ME) can do it ???:D
 
I've talked to Rance a couple of times. Once very recently and he is supposed to be sending some info on it. He simple said to me, "If you have a laptop and know what rich and lean is, you can install and program my systems".

Clint Eastwood said it best: "A man's got to know his limitations."

Mine are many and varied. I don't even OWN a laptop...

'nuf sed.:angry7:
 
Clint Eastwood said it best: "A man's got to know his limitations."

Mine are many and varied. I don't even OWN a laptop...

'nuf sed.:angry7:

Well I caint help you there.
 
"You might take a look at Rance EFI. He is like the guru of EFI. He's gotta nice multi port setup for the Clifford or Offy intake."


Very tempting... What kind of price tag comes with it? Cool thread guys, thanks! Tom
 
Stroker S

Interesting choice on the 318 valves,, I don't know that I have seen anyone else do that. Did they present any unusual problems to make em fit? Looks like a nice choice, any polish or back cut?

I like your cam choice,, I am building a slant for a D-150,, want a low rpm torque motor,,, will use a Oregon cam ground at 212 and 206 at .050,, .431 lift,,also is on a 105 LSA,, do you have a target for the installed intake center,,
I'm on a 100.5 again I am favoring the low end.

keep us posted on how your motor turns out,, once my truck is done I will be building up a slant 68 cuda,, been accumulating parts,,I have: KB 239's, 198 rods, long tube hookers,, will also be a a833 car,, I think our goals are about the same,, I state my goal by saying I want a "street driveable and strip respectable' car.

thanks
 
Yes, the head will get a full competition valve job with valve back cuts. Jerry is going to flow the head again and provide new flow sheets to reflect the valve job. I will post those here as well.

I have to favor the low end as well, as I am running an overdrive 4 speed A833. I don't want to have to down shift too much on the highway. I will incorperate a compression gauge with the degree wheel and shoot for the highest compression pressure......to a point.

Yes, I want mine to be able to turn a surprising 1/4 mile time......even though I may never actually run it. I basically want something different. Enough V8s for me......except for my D150 truck and my Hemi of course. I have had over 200 vehicles since I was 13 and nearly all of them have been hot V8s. I just want something different. Bruce (RIP) actually turned me on to slants in the first place. I feel an obligation to him to finish the project. I know he would like it. I just wish he could have lived to see it happen. I don't think he would have believed I would have stayed the course because of my extensive V8 background.....but I must admit, like everyone says, once you get the slant fever, it's tough to get rid of. They reek of coolness.


Stroker S

Interesting choice on the 318 valves,, I don't know that I have seen anyone else do that. Did they present any unusual problems to make em fit? Looks like a nice choice, any polish or back cut?

I like your cam choice,, I am building a slant for a D-150,, want a low rpm torque motor,,, will use a Oregon cam ground at 212 and 206 at .050,, .431 lift,,also is on a 105 LSA,, do you have a target for the installed intake center,,
I'm on a 100.5 again I am favoring the low end.

keep us posted on how your motor turns out,, once my truck is done I will be building up a slant 68 cuda,, been accumulating parts,,I have: KB 239's, 198 rods, long tube hookers,, will also be a a833 car,, I think our goals are about the same,, I state my goal by saying I want a "street driveable and strip respectable' car.

thanks
 
Fair enough. Thanks for the compliment. Sorry I twisted it. I am building what "I" want plain and simple. It'll pay off big time, because of the sheer difference in flow numbers, so I'm not worried about that. The short block is as follows. 1975 Duster block. Thank you Calvin (clhyer). 198 connecting rods. Thank you Frank (66acuda), with ARP rod bolts and bushed for full floating pins. Forged standard crank, lightened. KB239 2.2 Chrysler non turbo pistons. Oregon custom grind camshaft. .489/.489 230/230 @ .050" ground on a 105 LSA. I am going to blueprint compression somewhere under 10.1. I've not decided where yet. It is intended to be a pump gas only motor, so I am thinking 9.5 or under, although as nice as the head has turned out, I may be able to run more. Any input on that is appreciated. All this will be fed by a 800 CFM custom built and tuned Thermoquad by me on top of a Clifford intake, thanks Bob (superdart426) and exhausted by an old school set of Clifford long tube headers, thanks Bob (superdart426) I have decided to MAKE them work! lol . Also thanks Ed (805MoparKid) for my bellhousing. My goal was originally 250 HP without porting. However, the more I read and talked with people, the more I realized that was unrealistic. I am hoping as good as the head has turned out, that I will eclipse the 250 HP mark. I think I have a good chance. I cannot thank those of you who have helped me enough. This is what this site is all about. That is why I try to pay it forward every chance I get. Oh, and all of this is going in a 63 Dart 2 door post with an A833 OD 4 speed and 4.30 sure grip 8 3/4. It should be fun.
nice, it will scream!
 
How do you 'a compression gauge with the degree wheel and shoot for the highest compression pressure......to a point. '?

I have used a couple of online calculators ( RB and NTF) to get to a cranking pressure,,those are based upon calculated static & dynamic & intake centerline,

are you saying there is a way to get cranking pressure directly when setting the cam timing? school me here!

thanks
 
SS, the question was ask, and maybe answered, but i didn't see it. What's the dollar figure on a piece of work like you've had done on that head? If ya dont mind tellin. I've done some of my own but they dont look like that...... yet? By the way, i did learn domething from this thread on my next set. I have done mine from the gasket, which i do know can vary but i see the total layout is symetrical and exact from one port to another. I did learn something today and haven't gone to work yet........and i'm an old fart like Dedman. Just so ya'll know. Bill is one of the good guys.
Small Block
Small Block
 
Oh hell, I know. I love Bill to death. I like jabbin at him cause he loves his turbo stuff so much...he's gotta real glow about it. Caint help but love the guy. Jerry gets 600 for doing a slant head like that. That does not include any type valve job work. Mine is at the machine shop Jerry uses in Warner Robins now getting the valve job done. I could have done it myself, but I figured since it was there I would just let them finish it up. I suspect I'll have about 1K in the head when it is ready to bolt on.


SS, the question was ask, and maybe answered, but i didn't see it. What's the dollar figure on a piece of work like you've had done on that head? If ya dont mind tellin. I've done some of my own but they dont look like that...... yet? By the way, i did learn domething from this thread on my next set. I have done mine from the gasket, which i do know can vary but i see the total layout is symetrical and exact from one port to another. I did learn something today and haven't gone to work yet........and i'm an old fart like Dedman. Just so ya'll know. Bill is one of the good guys.
Small Block
Small Block
 
Oh hell, I know. I love Bill to death. I like jabbin at him cause he loves his turbo stuff so much...he's gotta real glow about it. Caint help but love the guy.

I am a pragmatist. I have to be. At my age, I don't have another ten years to sort out a combination in attemting to get it to run fast... so, I take the coward's way out and BLOW the performance in.

Turbocharging a slant six is not the easiest thing in the world to do; first off, you need some sort of a header/turbo mount. It's nothing like the deliberations surrounding obtaining a set of headers for a normally-aspirated slant six, where there are choices. The choice here is, do you want to modify a stock exhaust manifold with a turbo flange, or build a header from scratch, like Aaron (Turbo Toad) did... neither is easy.

Blow-thru carburetors are not exactly hanging off the trees, either, and can be (and, usually ARE) really expensive. I paid $900.00 for the one for my V8 car, from "The Carb Shop," in Ontario, Calfornia. That was a few years ago; they've probably gone up, by now.

If you want to mix it up with the V8s at the drag strip, you're going to have to run considerable (20-pounds and up) boost. That is going to require you to provide the leaning tower of power with forged pistons and rods, and if you're smart (I am not; I didn't do it, but will no doubt have to, down the road) you'll O-Ring the block and use a copper head gasket.

Camshaft choices are also limited in this respect; turbo motors don't seem to like very much "overlap," so the cams that work best in these blown motors, will be ground for short duration ( to minimize the overlap.) Having such short duration (most of these engines don't run much more than 210/210-degrees at .050"-lift,) severely limits the amount of lift at the valve. I tried and could not get a cam with .500"-lift, even, because of the short duration needed. I'm attempting to at least, partly alleviate that with a set of 1.6:1 rockers.

Good gas is a must; octane is KING... and the more, the better. Detonation, especially under boost, is the recipe for instant, and total, engine failure! Not pretty...

It's not all bad; there are some good things about these motors, too; most run out of breath about 5,500 rpm, so blowing one up by having to twist it too tight, is probably not gonna happen. The small duration cams these motors use, provide a smooth idle and have tons of low-end torque, so driveability is pretty much like a stock motor. That means the final drive gearing, and the torque converter can remain stock.

Since you don't need a 4.56:1 ring and pinion to make this thing run its best on the drag strip, a junkyard 8.25", rear end out of a late-model Duster or Aspen/Volare is a lot cheaper than a drop-out 8.75" A-Body rear end (drop-out to facilitate switching back and forth between drag strip and hiway ratios.)

But, tht's about it on the cheap side.... the engine modifications to successfully run forced induction on a slant six are absolutely necessary for it to live, and can include such items as custom-material ARP head studs for better sealing characteristics. Ours are 220,000/psi instead of the usual 180,000/psi units. I SERIOUSLY regret not having our block O-Ringed while it was apart. I'll regret it more later, when it won't "hold" a head gasket...

My buddy, Ray Alexander's father, had a a little sign on the wall above his desk. It said, "Why is there NEVER enough time to do a job "right", but there is ALWAYS time enough to go back and do it over again???" LOL

I should have paid more attention....:eek:ops:
 
As easy as these engines are to get the head off of, that would be reason enough for me to go back and o-ring it.
 
Yes, the head will get a full competition valve job with valve back cuts. Jerry is going to flow the head again and provide new flow sheets to reflect the valve job. I will post those here as well.
Any numbers yet ? Curiosity is killing me....
Martin
 
Sorry, I got side tracked and did not answer this. I have found that using the degree wheel first and installing to the cam maker's specs is a starting point. From there, I take #1 plug out and run a compression test. Then I advance 2* and take another compression test. If the pressure goes up, I advance 2* more. When the pressure drops, I back up one. That is always the highest cranking pressure. That usually equates to the most bottom end torque. If you keep advancing and the pressuer never backs off after say 8* more than the installed specm then the camshaft is probably too large for your combination. I actually learned that trick from none other than the late great Smokey Yunick hisself. I met him twice in Atlanta at shows put on by the now defunked Speed Distributors. He was a fine men. although quiet to a fault, he was ready to share any knowledge he had.

How do you 'a compression gauge with the degree wheel and shoot for the highest compression pressure......to a point. '?

I have used a couple of online calculators ( RB and NTF) to get to a cranking pressure,,those are based upon calculated static & dynamic & intake centerline,

are you saying there is a way to get cranking pressure directly when setting the cam timing? school me here!

thanks
 
Yes. The head is actually done. I just need to get the remaining funds up and go get it and pick up the last flow sheet. It won't be long.

Any numbers yet ? Curiosity is killing me....
Martin
 
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