"POWER NATION" slant six build

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Bill, you don't have to have 4 or 500 ponies to whup up on V8s. I think most people forget nowdays that the 69 440 barracuda ran a 13.89. If I were to get within a second of that with an n/a slant, I'd do handstands. That's what is so great about most slant guys, is they don't care if they are slow, they have FUN being different. Taking a car that probably ran a 19 and shaving 5 seconds off is rewarding in its own way.

Look at it like this, if you've got a 14 second V8, that's nothing too special but if you've got a slant that may even run 15s, that's pretty sweet.
 
Brandon Weaver said:
That's what is so great about most slant guys, is they don't care if they are slow, they have FUN being different. Taking a car that probably ran a 19 and shaving 5 seconds off is rewarding in its own way.
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You got it. In 1974 my 65 Valiant went a 22.8 in the 1/4, with a 170. Got it to low 16's by 1977 as a Z/SA car. Last year my best time with the same basic short block and a lot of spray, in a heavier 66 Cuda ran a 12.90
 
I agree with the Brandons post and Bill at the same time!

Boost is the best way to go FAST with a slant six! At the same time, I absolutely love driving my stock 170 slant '64! The fact that it's rediculously slow doesn't bother me at all! It's by far one of, if not THE slowest car I've owned. And yet I love it more than any other I've owned. I have always been exceptionally proud of all the slant six vehicles I've owned.

I've had a '72 Scamp 225 auto, '76 Dart Sport 225 3spd, a '70 Swinger 198 auto and my '64 Dart with a 170 3spd! All of these cars have been dead nuts reliable and got an average of anywhere from 20-26mpg! None of them were fast or even modified, and I love driving them!

And Charlie, tons of respect of what you've accomished with slants!
 
I expect that in typical driver cars, people notice low rpm torque more than max HP. Few people drive around screaming their engines in low gears (except rice-burner tuners). The same show also recently did a Ford 6 cyl, and they got great torque out of it (>300 ft-lbf). They used a unique Offenhauser "dual port" intake. I have one for my Newport (383 V-8 ) and want to see what improved mileage and torque I get. Too bad they never made one for the slant.
 
I say we send em Bill Deman. He'll show em how it's done.

I watch that show every weekend. Typical chev morons. They couln't even build a decent 360 when put to the test. They did have an episode where the boys from Indy cylinder head came,and built a 528 that shook thier dyno floor so much,I think it scared the host. That of course made typical Hemi power ,somewhere around 750 horse. Just a mild street motor.
 
Bad Sport said:
They should have gone into detail and really built the 6, but that's never gonna happen on that show. Look at the attention they gave the old Ford straight six!
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That Ford 300-6 buildup was pretty sweet, but we're not going to see the same thing with the Slant, that's for sure.
 
That show is all about selling product. Probably tons more for Fords and Chev than Mopar,so that's where the attention go's. Thats what really pisses in my corflakes with that show. Theres no real ingenuity.It's just parts procurement.
 
Brandon Weaver said:
Bill, you don't have to have 4 or 500 ponies to whup up on V8s. I think most people forget nowdays that the 69 440 barracuda ran a 13.89. If I were to get within a second of that with an n/a slant, I'd do handstands. That's what is so great about most slant guys, is they don't care if they are slow, they have FUN being different. Taking a car that probably ran a 19 and shaving 5 seconds off is rewarding in its own way.

Look at it like this, if you've got a 14 second V8, that's nothing too special but if you've got a slant that may even run 15s, that's pretty sweet.
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Brandon, I know that what you say is true. The low 14's turned by Ed Thomson's naturally-aspirated slant six-powered '68 Dart will outrun a lot of cars, (like, stock 340s,) but the fact is, cars are getting faster all the time. For the last several years, the V6 Camrys and Nissan Altimas have had 100mph quarter-mile capabilities and the Honda Accords are just a tick slower... These are just soccer mom grocery getters, bone stock front wheel drive economy cars.

To make a naturally aspirated slant six, A body Dart or Valiant, run any faster than these mundane utilitarian vehicles is not an easy task... it requires a lot of work in the engine compartment if you are going to accomplish it without some SERIOUS lightening of the chassis... OR, forced induction. Or, both...

It's an uphill battle, naturally aspirated, because of that head..

Ten pounds of boost can be tolerated indefinitely, in a stock slant six motor, I think, without removing the cylinder head, using a chemical intercooler like a "Snowperformance BoostCooler." I think just ten pounds of boost on an otherwise stock slant six will put a 3,000 pound A body into the 13's on pump gas. That is an appealing prospect for someone who is facing the possibility of a swap to a 318 or 360 V8, with all the expense and detail work it entails.

The fact is, though, the performance capabiiities of a forced induction slant six is a too-well-kept secret... Hardly anybody knows about it...

Can anyone on this board reading this tell me when, if EVER (excluding the piece(s) on Steve Nitti's excellent supercharged Duster,) they saw any article anywhere, at any time, conveying the details about what a turbo can do for a slant six???

I have NEVER seen such an article, and I read a lot...

It's ridiculous...

This POWER NATION show should do a slant six build using a mostly stock slant six, a 2bbl Holley carb (with Hangar 18 mods) on a super six manifold, and a PISHTA J-pipe, and not much else, and show what it can do installed in a 3,000-pound A body.

That should wake some folks up...

Think it might could happen?

Not likely... not selling any parts... LOL!

So, the boosted slant six will remain one of hot rodding's best kept secrets...:eek:ops:

More's the pity!:banghead:
 
Charrlie_S said:
Replaced my 360 with a 170 slant.:???::???::???:
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I pulled a carbed 403 stroker for a 225....While I built the EFI top end, then I added a turbo to the 6. dont know which one Ill keep in there....?
 
I agree with what's being said here but there is an episode where one of the guys builds a 451 stroker big-block Mopar and throughout the show he definitely seems to know what he's doing and you can tell he is actually interested in the build not just throwing stuff together and selling parts.

http://www.powerblocktv.com/episode/HP2013-08/big-block-mopar-match-up

EDIT: John Bouchard that's the guy lol
 
Bill Dedman said:
This POWER NATION show should do a slant six build using a mostly stock slant six, a 2bbl Holley carb (with Hangar 18 mods) on a super six manifold, and a PISHTA J-pipe, and not much else, and show what it can do installed in a 3,000-pound A body.
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I would watch a show about my car any day.
 
Cool,I forgot about that 451! John Bouchard was one of those guys who seemed to like Mopar,and AMC too. Of course he's gone now. Funny how all the Mopar guys that show gets seem to disappear and get replaced by another chev guy.
 
my opinion is they are a Pile of Chevy loving douchebags...... my guess is that part of the reason Joe has moved to the muscle car show being the ford guy he is.
the said thing is even if they brought in a "guest" builder it would probably one of the asshats from indy......... its a shame they cant balance the show a little or even do a little research on ANYTHING they build. the show is more comic relief then anything for me..
 
Power Block? SUCKS the big one! Like others have said, chevy, chevy, chevy, then a ford. Repeat...... And usually just another damn LS build..... It has gotten very old, very fast. I don't watch it anymore. I'll watch some damn infomercial before I watch that. Well, Extreme 4x4 with Ian is cool, I like that show, even if I don't have a 4x4. But the WD-40 Jeep, has a damn LS going in it.....What? Cheap, cheaper, cheapest.....

:finga: Power Block!
 
Bill Dedman said:
For the last several years, the V6 Camrys and Nissan Altimas have had 100mph quarter-mile capabilities and the Honda Accords are just a tick slower... These are just soccer mom grocery getters, bone stock front wheel drive economy cars.

Well, yeah. You're comparing a 45yr old economy car with a 55yr old engine design to a brand new economy car with brand new engine technology as well (and you happened to pick the V6 model, which are geared a little bit more towards performance) That's pretty much the same as comparing an old Hemi Challenger to the new Hellcat. No, we won't be as fast or get as good as fuel economy. So what? We have more fun, can say we built it ourselves, and look/sound cooler. That's part of owning an old car.

Ten pounds of boost can be tolerated indefinitely, in a stock slant six motor, I think, without removing the cylinder head, using a chemical intercooler like a "Snowperformance BoostCooler." I think just ten pounds of boost on an otherwise stock slant six will put a 3,000 pound A body into the 13's on pump gas. That is an appealing prospect for someone who is facing the possibility of a swap to a 318 or 360 V8, with all the expense and detail work it entails.

I'm going to go against you on this one. A stock 225 slant six may make 145@crank. This is what the factory rated them at, and I haven't seen a stock 225 dynoed to say otherwise. However, I will say, the factory also rated them at 8.4:1 static compression, and we all know that is an overstatement at best. Then add 30+ years and however many miles of abuse to the engine, and the actual power is anyones guess. We'll use 145 though, since that's the number we have, and for giggles add another 5 horse for the carb upgrade to a Holley 350. Now we've got a nice round number (albiet, optimistic) of 150hp.

I think it's somewhat common knowledge that throwing 14.7# of boost (virtually 1 more atmosphere) at any internal combustion motor theoretically doubles its power. So, we will use the formula
10(150/14.7)+150.
10(~10.2) +150
102+150
252

So, 10lbs of boost on a stock slant would theoretically be around 250hp, that is, if you can tune a blow through carb PERFECTLY. The chance of an average joe pulling a 13 second 1/4 with a 250 horse motor in a 3000lb chassis (btw, I'm assuming you meant 3000lb with the driver in it, which as you stated earlier, most street cars weigh in around 3400) ain't real likely.

Oh, I'd also be curious to know how much it actually cost to convert from a slant to a small block. I'd put my money on it wouldn't be much more than what Serj22 spent on his turbo setup ($1500?) not to mention it would be WAY easier to tune, and most people prefer their muscle cars to sound like, well, muscle cars. Not bread trucks (unless turbo sounds are you thing, which is sometimes the case)

The fact is, though, the performance capabiiities of a forced induction slant six is a too-well-kept secret... Hardly anybody knows about it...

More people know about it than you think, and its not some "secret" just forced induction. People have been using it to go fast since the before slant was even designed.

Can anyone on this board reading this tell me when, if EVER (excluding the piece(s) on Steve Nitti's excellent supercharged Duster,) they saw any article anywhere, at any time, conveying the details about what a turbo can do for a slant six???

Eh, there has been small articles here and there (Hemmings, Hot Rod's tech tips, etc.) People just don't have interest in a slant, PERIOD. Blown, gassed, n/a, whatever. It is viewed as an economy motor, and why feature a slant six and have sales drop when you could feature a plethora of V8's that put out more than the most powerful slant ever has? (Thats 630 horse btw last time I checked)

I have NEVER seen such an article, and I read a lot...

It's ridiculous...

This POWER NATION show should do a slant six build using a mostly stock slant six, a 2bbl Holley carb (with Hangar 18 mods) on a super six manifold, and a PISHTA J-pipe, and not much else, and show what it can do installed in a 3,000-pound A body.

Uh, 200 some odd horsepower. We've seen what it will do, and unless you're into that sort of thing, not many others would be impressed.

That should wake some folks up...

Or put them to sleep, because it ain't a Chevy/Ford, or even a V8. It's the standard for us Mopar guys, especially for the slants. You think we'd be used to it by now.

So, the boosted slant six will remain one of hot rodding's best kept secrets...:eek:ops:

Once again, not really a secret if lots of people know about it and just don't care. A poor n/a motor won't make a good f/i motor. That's why the LS series of motor are so popular. Their small, light, make great power, and are bulletproof even when you throw pressure to 'em. Why don't we be happy that they are even featuring a Mopar, much less a slant, and hope prices don't rise on everything because the motor is gaining popularity!
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:):)
 
Brandon Weaver wrote:
"Why don't we be happy that they are even featuring a Mopar, much less a slant, and hope prices don't rise on everything because the motor is gaining popularity!"

and, Bill sez...

Why? Because they are not showing how to make GOOD power out of a slant six by utilizing forced induction. You contend that "A poor n/a motor won't make a good f/i motor."

In relation to that statement, as referenced to turbos, Ryan Peterson's 225 turbo slant six makes 500+ horsepower, as does Tom Wolfe's similar powerplant. That's about 2.2 horsepower per cubic inch. The vaunted Hellcat makes (707hp divided by 378 cubic inches) makes just 1.87 horsepower per cubic inch, and everyone seems to think that is just outstanding. So, what do you think about that? In fact, with an engine just 57-percent as large, his slant six has turned in times that are faster than any of the reported times of Hellcats on their stock tires. His '66 Valiant is lighter, of course, but still carries more weight per cubic inch than the Hellcat ( 12.44 pounds per cubic inch vs. the Hellcat's 11.4, significantly heavier per cubic inch.)

So I take issue with the statement that "a poor n/a engine won't make a good f/i (forced induction) motor" For obvious reasons... I think, mostly, because of its robust infrastructure... and, the resulting horsepower gains from elevated boost levels that would probably blow a Hellcat's crank right out, onto the ground.


Brandon also said, "More people know about it than you think, and its not some "secret" just forced induction. People have been using it to go fast since the before slant was even designed."

I am not referring to turbo or supercharging, per se; I am talking about the application of that technology specifically, as it applies to the slant six... that was the subject here.

Slant sixes possess design features (a short, forged crank, with main bearings the same size as a 426 Hemi's, thick-wall construction parameters, throughout... you can bore one safely, .100"-inch, and the decks, both on the block and head, are about half-an-inch thick, with very thick main bearing webs (because they were designed to be built of aluminum, and that didn't change when they ceased the aluminum construction,) that make them uniquely-suited to boost... lots of it!


And NO, there is NOT much at all, in the realm of printed material about that subject, anywhere, that I can find. I invite you to prove me wrong; just tell me wherein a high circulation magazine such as Hot Rod, Car Craft, Popular Hot Rodding, Car and Driver, Road and Track, Circle Track, or any other popular newstand titles, available to the general public, has EVER featured an article that dealt with the subject, specifically, of turbocharging a slant six. It doesn't exist... as best as I can tell.

THAT makes it a well-kept secret. These same magazines write a story about a naturally-aspirated slant six buildup. with all the bells and whistles, and end up with a paltry 300 horsepower, and decide that the slant six is a loser... because of the mediocre output. They never go the extra mile required by forced induction and discover.... WHOA!!! an extra 200 horsepower lurking in that little leaning tower of power...

That is the "secret" to which I allude.

You haven't seen it in any of the major publications, so the reading public is left with the decided impression that slants "just don't work."

POWER NATION can fix at least some of that, by building a blown motor.
 
Hot Rod did do a small mention of the Slant Six show at Alviso Ca. About 7 or 8 years ago and mentioned a turbo slant making 3 lbs of boost. I believe they used an exclamation mark after 3lbs... Definitely not an article, just a 5 or 6 line blurb. Thats all I have ever seen about forced induction slants in mainstream print media.
On the show last week, when they referred to the slant as "A leaning tower of not so much power" at the end of the first episode, it seemed that something was amiss.
Judging on the final hp and torque numbers, they did nothing more than throw some cool looking sponsor parts onto a basically stock slant. If I were a sponsor, I would not be too happy with their results.
 
Well, I think they dyno it in the morning, then it will be on to a Chivvy engine.
 
dozer556 said:
That Ford 300-6 buildup was pretty sweet, but we're not going to see the same thing with the Slant, that's for sure.
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Yup, it was an interesting engine rebuild, those Ferd straight sixes were an awesome engine. I would love more balance in the show, it's only right. After all it IS called Engine Power, not Chivvy or Ferd power.
 
Andyz said:
Hot Rod did do a small mention of the Slant Six show at Alviso Ca. About 7 or 8 years ago and mentioned a turbo slant making 3 lbs of boost. I believe they used an exclamation mark after 3lbs... Definitely not an article, just a 5 or 6 line blurb. Thats all I have ever seen about forced induction slants in mainstream print media.
On the show last week, when they referred to the slant as "A leaning tower of not so much power" at the end of the first episode, it seemed that something was amiss.
Judging on the final hp and torque numbers, they did nothing more than throw some cool looking sponsor parts onto a basically stock slant. If I were a sponsor, I would not be too happy with their results.
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I rest my case... almost...
 
[QUOTE=Brandon Weaver wrote:
"So, 10lbs of boost on a stock slant would theoretically be around 250hp, that is, if you can tune a blow through carb PERFECTLY. The chance of an average Joe pulling a 13 second 1/4 with a 250 horse motor in a 3000lb chassis (btw, I'm assuming you meant 3,000lb with the driver in it, which as you stated earlier, most street cars weigh in around 3,400) ain't real likely."

Point of information:

The Wallace online calculator, which is the only such online drag racing source for performance figures arrived at by entering weight and horsepower numbers I know of, says a 3,170-pound vehicle (that's a 3,000-pound A Body plus a driver weight of an NHRA-mandated 170 pounds,) with 250 horsepower should turn in a quarter mile performance of 13.58 at 98.52 mph.

That's their opinion, not necessarily mine, but it's all I have to go on.

So, the trick would be to get the weight of the car down to three grand. My '64 Valiant weighs 2,670, with a roll bar and sub-frame connectors. But, it has no front bumper, a fiberglass hood, and no back seat. My earlier '64 Valiant with a 340, weighed 3,105.

A 13 second,10-pound boosted slant 6 in a 3,000 pound A body is a definite possibility, I think.
 

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Bill Dedman said:
A 13 second,10-pound boosted slant 6 in a 3,000 pound A body is a definite possibility, I think.
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It is more then a possibility, it is a reality. Back in the early 1980's my 65 Valiant, weighing between 2,900 and 3,000 lbs with driver. and a 170 with a Corvair turbo (drawthru)at about 10 psi boost, was turning 13.4's at 104 mph. That was so "old school, Shadetree". With the parts and tech, today would be sooo much more efficenct.
 
They had to paint that poor /6 to look like a cheap hooker. :)
 
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