Pulling my hair out

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XakEp

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I thought I had my off idle woes fixed, I was wrong. Dammit!

I have a 1406 on my 318, and for whatever reason if I hit the gas from a stop, it'll sputter for a second and stall out. If I hit the gas from a 2 mph roll, it'll go a little roughly, but then catch and fly. If I'm going faster than 10 mph and hit it, it goes like a bat out of hell.

We re-jetted it, changed the rods and cleaned it all out. I tried unhooking the vacuum advance, that helped for a day and now its back where it was.

Ideas? We spent a few hours on it and we have no idea what the problem is now.
 
Sound to me like your getting away too much fuel down the carb. (big time bog out) How may CFM is your model #.....and what size jets did you change to?
 
XakEp said:
its a 1406 Eddy, 650 CFM. We put in the 101 jets.
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650 isn't too bad 600 is better. I take it your 318 is stock? Did everything work good before? Any changes besides the carb. Again it could depend...did you completely rebuild the carb. Is your dist in good shape (bearings good). Is it same when cold/hot. Do you get a puff of black smoke out the pipes?

Now I just pulled this chart and it looks like your running a #18 in the high end jet which could be giving you a over rich mixture or give you flood conditions

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/eps_1406.html

Also XakEp, I'm sure other members will give advice. I just need more information.
 
OldVart said:
Try changing the stroke on your accelerator pump and see if that causes any more stumble or if it lessens the hesitation.
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You'll have to be a little more specific - I'm more of an import guy so I'm a little lost around carbs. I know what an xcel pump is, but how do you change the stroke?
 
XakEp said:
You'll have to be a little more specific - I'm more of an import guy so I'm a little lost around carbs. I know what an xcel pump is, but how do you change the stroke?
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Go on line and look up Edlebrock 1406 carb discription. It "should" show you a brakedown picture of your carb/acel pump. When you move your throttle by hand you will see an arm through the linkage that pushes a plunger into the bowl area. This has a pump adjuster (should be a spring around it) that if not correct could allow too much fuel from the bowl to enter into the rods which floods.
 
69signetv8 said:
Go on line and look up Edlebrock 1406 carb discription. It "should" show you a brakedown picture of your carb/acel pump. When you move your throttle by hand you will see an arm through the linkage that pushes a plunger into the bowl area. This has a pump adjuster (should be a spring around it) that if not correct could allow too much fuel from the bowl to enter into the rods which floods.
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I'll take a look at it and get back with ya
 
id look into the pump shot as mentioned. Also are you running .101 primarys or secondaries? i run .098 primarys with, ah hell i dont remember what rod, but i'm in the neighborhood of about .113 secondaries with my eddie.

Are you running a avs? or performer?
 
GoodysGotaCuda said:
id look into the pump shot as mentioned. Also are you running .101 primarys or secondaries? i run .098 primarys with, ah hell i dont remember what rod, but i'm in the neighborhood of about .113 secondaries with my eddie.

Are you running a avs? or performer?
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THe primaries are 101, the secondaries are a bit smaller I remember. I'll have to check.

Its an old carb, carter 650 cfm w/electric choke. Identical to the eddie 1406 performer. Its been rebuilt and cleaned, so I have no idea why its doing this.
 
What metering rods are you running? The secondaries should really always be larger (jet) than the primaries.

Have you figured out where your accel pump shot is? how is your timing?
 
GoodysGotaCuda said:
What metering rods are you running? The secondaries should really always be larger (jet) than the primaries.

Have you figured out where your accel pump shot is? how is your timing?
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.042 rods. I know where the accel pump is, I replaced the rubber ring the other day.

The secondaries should be bigger? The top end is fine, no stumbling or anything, it goes well.

Also, scored a nitrous kit today. I'll prolly end up getting a dual plane manifold and some gears for it in a few months too. I'll get this damn thing sorted out.

The previous owner tried to put a 440 in it, couldnt, and sold it to me for 800$ with the 318 in it with a bunch of extra parts (like the dana60). Heh...
 
Did this hesitation manifest itself before or after you rebuilt the accellerator pump / carb? Just trying to narrow down the possibilities here. It sounds like you have a Carter AFB 626 CFM there.
 
Since know one has mentioned it whatt is you timing at? Try advancing your timing, not enough advance will make it lazy.
 
OldVart said:
Did this hesitation manifest itself before or after you rebuilt the accellerator pump / carb? Just trying to narrow down the possibilities here. It sounds like you have a Carter AFB 626 CFM there.
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Sounds about right - it IS a Carter carb. I bought the carb and rebuilt it, from what the previous owner has said, it did not do this before I put it on my car. And seeing as he sold me a strong motor with no problems for 75$ and a few other parts that are exactly as described I dont think he screwed me over on this carb.

The timing has been checked and I believe it hits 38 degrees total advance at WOT and at idle its around 10 degrees. Base timing is fine at 5 degrees BTDC.
 
XakEp said:
.042 rods. I know where the accel pump is, I replaced the rubber ring the other day.

The secondaries should be bigger? The top end is fine, no stumbling or anything, it goes well.

Also, scored a nitrous kit today. I'll prolly end up getting a dual plane manifold and some gears for it in a few months too. I'll get this damn thing sorted out.

The previous owner tried to put a 440 in it, couldnt, and sold it to me for 800$ with the 318 in it with a bunch of extra parts (like the dana60). Heh...
Click to expand...

you mentioned that you're going to get a dual plane manifold for it later. Does that mean that you've got a single plane on it now
 
demon seed said:
you mentioned that you're going to get a dual plane manifold for it later. Does that mean that you've got a single plane on it now
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Thats correct. Anyone want to trade for this plus the extra Torker 440 manifold I have now? Ha ha ha...
 
Wow, I am staying away from Eddy carbs for sure. My 318 has a Offy high rise single plane and a Holley HP 750 dp with headers and 3.91 gears. Its great, great idle, great part throttle and great wide open. Yeah I hear 600 cfm is what a 318 likes but my little motor loves its 750. Now 2 years ago I used to get a somewhat bog from a dead stop if I floor it very fast but all I did-after jetting it up and down to get it just about right on-is upgrade my MSD 6 box to a MSD 7al. It really made a differance, no bog no matter how fast I punch it and a very nice cold idle even now when its 30 degress outside. BTW right now I have 73 jets in front with a .060 power valve resitriction-the hole size in the power valve area where the p.v. screws in to and 83 jets in back with no p.v. back there. Good luck guy.
 
Could be your off idle bog is caused by a miss match with that carb and the single plane manifold. I had the same problem a couple years ago and went to a double pumper-mechanical secondaries for more gas off idle. Sounds the same as your problem but the cause could be different. As suggested earlier see if you can change the linkage to your accelerator pump to give you more gas when you step on it. If that doesn't work back the linkage off to give a smaller squirt when you punch it.
 
Earlier it was mentioned that it should have larger jets in the rear. Sorry but that is not right on the Carter's/Edelbrocks. They use larger jets in the front because the metering rods pass through the front jets they need to be larger.

Sounds to me like it's either running lean or the ignition isn't up to snuff.
 
fishy68 said:
Earlier it was mentioned that it should have larger jets in the rear. Sorry but that is not right on the Carter's/Edelbrocks. They use larger jets in the front because the metering rods pass through the front jets they need to be larger.

Sounds to me like it's either running lean or the ignition isn't up to snuff.
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FBO makes a good ignition setup - I dont think thats it. I'm at work today, so I'll check the accelerator pump and see what I can do with that.
 
XakEp said:
FBO makes a good ignition setup - I dont think thats it. I'm at work today, so I'll check the accelerator pump and see what I can do with that.
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Your right FBO does make a good ignition system. I didn't see anywhere in your post where you said you were running one. What about the plugs. Are they set correctly and in good condition? Reading the plugs is a great way to tell what's happening with the whole system. Takes out the guess work.
 
XakEp said:
FBO makes a good ignition setup - I dont think thats it. I'm at work today, so I'll check the accelerator pump and see what I can do with that.
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Theres been quite a few having this problem with there AFBs, they've been putting the stiffest step up springs in them & it seems to be the cure, but you'll have to get the calibration strip kit, it comes with step springs, jets, M. rods etc., but it will set you back like 55.00, on the AFBs & AVS, the primary jets are larger then the back because of the m. rods, i would put the stock jets & rods back in, then try the stiffest springs for the m. rods.
 
fishy68 said:
Your right FBO does make a good ignition system. I didn't see anywhere in your post where you said you were running one. What about the plugs. Are they set correctly and in good condition? Reading the plugs is a great way to tell what's happening with the whole system. Takes out the guess work.
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My bad - thought I had posted that. I figured originally I'd just get the best ignition and save myself the headache of second guessing it.

I cant remember what I gapped them at, it was a long time ago. I'll have to pull them and check.

Should I just ditch this thing and get another carb? Or is it fixable? What other carbs should I look at?
 
Ditching that carb would probably be a mistake. Once you get the fine tuning done on a Carter, it will run trouble free for years, but like anything else related to the running of the car, it has to be fine tuned. Have a look and read at this site and maybe you can get some more insight into your current carb setup. Good luck.
http://www.carburetion.com/index.htm
 
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