Question for the Experienced Body and Paint Guys

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Detroit Iron

Detroit Iron

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I'm no pro, but I'm also not a beginner. I painted multiple engine compartments, and one full car.

Anyway, I'm currently working on painting my '67 Dart the original Copper. This is single stage urethane. I have the hood and trunk lid off the car right now because I cleaned and painted the under side of them.

Does it make any sense to leave them off the car and paint the top side of them separate from the rest of the car?

Input please....
 
I am no expert but I know quite a few who are. You can often see the difference in a panel painted separate from the body.
 
Agreed. I'm not an expert either, but at my experience level, especially with any metallic paints, they can "lay different" on panels painted separately and give a noticeably different finish once assembled. You could probably get away with it with solid "Crayola" colors, though...
 
I would 'cut in' the car such that you could paint it with the hood and trunk on the car ie not have to open them to paint inside. At least that is what I am planning to do.
 
Detroit Iron said:
I'm no pro, but I'm also not a beginner. I painted multiple engine compartments, and one full car.

Anyway, I'm currently working on painting my '67 Dart the original Copper. This is single stage urethane. I have the hood and trunk lid off the car right now because I cleaned and painted the under side of them.

Does it make any sense to leave them off the car and paint the top side of them separate from the rest of the car?

Input please....
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Not with that color. Especially single stage. You guys and your single stage. I dont get it.
 
I would spray the bottom sides then tapes them off. Put them back on then spray the whole car. Its hard to get everything to match even with base coat, single stage metallic is even harder. I know guys who spray them all apart & are very good at it. You have to have everything just right. The area you spray has to be the same temp, same air pressure at the gun, same amount coats ect. Ive tried it many time & i cant do it. Ive been spraying for 20 plus years. I pisses me off that i cant lol
 
Most people agree that it is better to spray the car completely assembled, but as you probably know there are issues with doing that, in not being able to paint certain areas, overspray into other parts etc.. My understanding is that if you, lets say, remove the front fenders, hood, valance, the trunk and place them in a way that they sit just as they sit on the car as you paint them, and you paint everything in the same day in the same garage/paint booth at the same time, everything should match and come out fine. so, the fenders cannot be sitting on top of a table, as the paint will settle differently on the sides of them, they need to be with the fender tops parallel to the floor and the sides hanging to the floor just as they sit on the car, and the hood has to be parallel to the floor just as it sits on the car. If the parts are painted on the same day in the same booth and the panels hang as they do on the car, there should be no issues. The biggest issue with painting the panels separate seems to be to do it on a different day, with different temperatures and atmospheric conditions. Plus when you mix your paint the mix may not be exactly the same, even when coming from the exact same can, especially with metallic paints. When doing this you just place your fenders next to your doors, and as you paint your quarters and doors, you then keep going onto your fender as if they were attached to the car, they will just be a couple of feet away from where they would normally be, and your hood will just be in front of the car, again just in front of where it would normally be. If done correctly there should be no issues.
 
Agree with Post #9 .You might get away with it but now you have to mount them without chipping. Hoods and trunks are finnicky getting them just right. JMO. Now I painted my Ragtop going on 3 years now with PPG single stage black and the paint now sucks. Fades a bit every season and I have to buff and or keep waxing it. This paint was never like this. If you already bought the paint you could topcoat it with clear but risk what is called panel pop (little pin holes in the paint). To avoid that you have to be patient and give each coat sufficient time to flash. Still risky. Suggest base/clearcoat .
 
You can pre paint panels. But final paint is always after it is assembled. Black can be final panel painted and match. Reverse mask the jams to eliminate a paint edge.

Metallics and all colors will always have a color difference due to the way the metallics and colors lay and sink. Even if you spray the whole car the sides will fade to a slight metallic change difference then the top, I was a finish spray painter at Mack trucks. there were two painters per truck , One per side. Some metallic paints one person would give a quick dust coat on both sides so the metallic laid the same. Silver and gold were the worst to cover evenly.

So my answer would be always repaint the car assembled. you'll end up with a nice even match on panels

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Painted my Ragtop in 1985 Black Imron paint. That car shined like a marble until I stripped it in 2018.
Can't get that stuff anymore.
 
SS is popular especially for DIYers....less chance of something going wrong and cheaper.
 
Kendog 170 said:
Agree with Post #9 .You might get away with it but now you have to mount them without chipping. Hoods and trunks are finnicky getting them just right. JMO. Now I painted my Ragtop going on 3 years now with PPG single stage black and the paint now sucks. Fades a bit every season and I have to buff and or keep waxing it. This paint was never like this. If you already bought the paint you could topcoat it with clear but risk what is called panel pop (little pin holes in the paint). To avoid that you have to be patient and give each coat sufficient time to flash. Still risky. Suggest base/clearcoat .
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You are very correct on the chipping issue when assembling the car back together. I just painted a door jamb, and A-pillar, in a 71 Mustang Mach 1 that I am restoring, and when putting the door back on I let it drop a bit and screwed up all the lower rocker paint... Got to redo it now. Never take your door hinges off the car unless you absolutely have to, I had to do it as the car had an old accident and the lower a Pillar was all mangled up and bent, nothing could be done, had to replace it.
 
Not sure single stage is a good idea...read on.

I agree, jamb everything first, assemble, then paint it all together. Research how to mask so that it does not leave a sharp paint edge..lots of youtube videos out there on that.

All that said, I am NOT a fan of single stage when it comes to mettallics and the reason being is you can get what I call zebra striping from how the metal lays out in the paint film. Depending on if the flakes lay on edge, random, or lay flat, light will reflect differently and you can probably get 10 different shades. Air pressure, distance from the car, angle of the gun will all affect this so consistency is important to minimize this effect and always keep gun perpendicular to surface. This will show up worse under street lights at night.

Another thing that can happen is a condition called flip flop. This is where, even on a vehicle painted assembled, each panel can look as though it was painted separately, if you paint spray the front fender, then jump over to the other side to keep the paint wet, then jump back to the fender area and paint the door next to it, etc... It is best to paint down the entire side of the car (House of Kolor has some great videos where it's founder demonstrates this method of eliminating flip flop). Another fix for flip flop on single stage is to "fog" the final coat so the metal flakes are all laying the same.
The problem with this is that you may get a dull final coat which you will want to buff out...which will expose the stripes...which is why I like to use clear over urethane so that you can fog, clear, then cut and buff the clear and leave the color alone.
 
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barbee6043 said:
I rather cut and buff some old single stage to bring it back to life than have sorry bc/cc peeling and lookng like deah warmed over!!:thumbsup:
:BangHead:
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Right!?! Plus the bottom line for me is that single stage just looks stock. I mean base/clear looks super nice. Don't get me wrong. I love to look at cars that are super nice. I appreciate the talent that goes into fine work. But, I like the look of a less than perfect car. Just my taste. I like to do a fairly good job with prep, squirt paint on it and drive the damn car to work and the grocery store. Single stage fits the bill for this lifestyle.
 
Good input here. I will reassemble the panels and paint the car all at one time. Everything that was stated here makes perfect sense. Thank you all for the advice.

Onward....
 
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Detroit Iron said:
Right!?! Plus the bottom line for me is that single stage just looks stock. I mean base/clear looks super nice. Don't get me wrong. I love to look at cars that are super nice. I appreciate the talent that goes into fine work. But, I like the look of a less than perfect car. Just my taste. I like to do a fairly good job with prep, squirt paint on it and drive the damn car to work and the grocery store. Single stage fits the bill for this lifestyle.
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I so agree. But, single stage an be applied with lots of gloss.
I am no expert and having done more than a few does not make me an expert. But, I had several paint guys do cars for me back in the 80,90s mostly. One guy in particular, was a tremendous custom car guy. Unknown to most. He could do anything, body, paint, drivetrain, and he cold put down a case of beer a day. It was all single stage and he tried to explain to me a lot of it was using a very slow reducer, (today even slow hardner), humidity, and of course technique of pressure, tip, and laying it on. He could do single stage to revile any bc/cc.
But like you say, I too want it to look like back in the day even though our single stage paints today are better.
 
A guy an shoot single stage urethane and come back and topcoat it with clear if so desired.
The base in a metallic is easier to shoot and therefore many advise such or a rookie.
Having good light goes along way to a good job as does a good compressor with constant pressure.
So many peps today just want that super shiny look the clear gives. I just don't.
Some want an LS in their 65 Dart too! ha
 
1MeanA said:
Does anybody know of an off the shelf and currently available cam similar to the #2120 / '68 340 4 speed cam? I'm specifically looking for something good for stock manifolds with 112 or 114 LSA.
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barbee6043 said:
I so agree. But, single stage an be applied with lots of gloss.
I am no expert and having done more than a few does not make me an expert. But, I had several paint guys do cars for me back in the 80,90s mostly. One guy in particular, was a tremendous custom car guy. Unknown to most. He could do anything, body, paint, drivetrain, and he cold put down a case of beer a day. It was all single stage and he tried to explain to me a lot of it was using a very slow reducer, (today even slow hardner), humidity, and of course technique of pressure, tip, and laying it on. He could do single stage to revile any bc/cc.
But like you say, I too want it to look like back in the day even though our single stage paints today are better.
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My car came out awesome when I painted it but does not stand up without repeated attention. Base/cleared my hardtop 7 years ago and stays nice and shiny.

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I totally understand the desire for a period correct paint job...heck that's all I did back in the late 70's and early 80's. If that's the route you want to take, all the more power to you but...you might want to check the tech sheets and see what the recoat window for a clear is and be ready to change you mind if you run into problems with it. What I mean by that is lets say the texture is just not right (too much orange peel for example) and you realize it will need to be cut and buffed, but doing so may cut through the film thickness. Well, a simple fix would be to clear over it with say 3 coats or so and cut and buff that. Not the "look" you wanted but better than completely reshooting the car. So I would plan for the worse, know where to get the clear and all the additives needed, and plan for the time to purchase and shoot them...within the reshoot window which may be just a few hours. Go beyond that window and you have just made a ton of work for yourself. I have made just about every mistake in the book and the fix is sometimes EXTREMELY painful so make things easy on yourself. Single stage is WAY harder to achieve than 2 stage.
 
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