Question on 2 inch drop spindles

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  1. Oldmanmopar

    Oldmanmopar Going left turning right FABO Gold Member

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    Did anyone ever use strange race brakes on 2 inch drop spindles? The brakes PN# is B4160WC. I have called several places . "Firm feel"don't answer their phone for 3 days. "Fat man" don't answer. "Performance on line" don't answer. None called back in over a week. And "Magnum force"said that to use wilwood brakes you have to use a special kit made for their spindle. They are not sure of Strange They told me they would call me back after they put a call into Strange engineering. Guess what. They said they never heard from them for over 3 hrs. I am hoping someone on here used a 2 inch drop spindle with strange race brakes

    I asked if their "Magnum force" spindle is the same as "Firm feel" and they said yes they are all the same except for " Fat man"

    Who else makes 2 inch drop spindles that knows anything about their product except the answer that they are all the same? Who actually makes them? LOL
     
  2. diymirage

    diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline

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  3. Oldmanmopar

    Oldmanmopar Going left turning right FABO Gold Member

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    Well I called "Magnum force" and decided to order theirs figuring I could modify them to make them work. She couldn't take my order she wasn't at her desk. I have been waiting here at the phone with no return call. LOL.
     
  4. Darter6

    Darter6 Well-Known Member

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    Gotta love people that own their own business.When they fail they blame the hobby.
    Old man, I ran the Fat man 2'' drop spindles on my 63 Valiant. I used the 73-up factory disc set up.Did power brakes too. Nothing fancy but worked great.Unless you want fancy.
    Just my 2 cents.
     
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    • burdar

      burdar Owen's Dad

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      I've got the Magnum Force drop spindles. Bought them from a member here used. They are nice pieces. I've got Dr Diff's Mustang cobra big brake kit on them.
       
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      • A56

        A56 MoParAffliction FABO Gold Member

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        Just found this from 6 years ago here on FABO, not sure what changed in 6 years...maybe customer service
        DO NOT BUY! Magnum Farce 2" drop spindles are junk
         
      • kursplat

        kursplat FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      • Oldmanmopar

        Oldmanmopar Going left turning right FABO Gold Member

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        I read the thread "Do not buy drop spindles" From what I gathered he was not happy with the extra offset the big bolt conversion gives from all big bolt spindles.

        I bought the spindles from "Firm feel" I PM'd HemiDenny and he felt the same the same as I did . To use the race brakes I may have to make my own caliper brackets. I will let you all know when they get here. I have no other options. Steve
         
      • burdar

        burdar Owen's Dad

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        The spindles and big brake kits do move the wheels out father on the 72 and older cars. From the very beginning I knew I would be ordering custom wheels though. That being said, I'm still worried about what I'll be able to fit under the front of my 68. With a dropped spindle, the outer tie rod will hit the rim lip or sidewall of the tire if the backspacing it too great. With a stock spindle the tie rod can ride "inside" the wheel. I haven't measured for wheels yet but just a quick measurement from the rotor face to the tie rod gives me just over 5". I'm hoping with a low profile tire(that doesn't stick out past the wheel lip) I'll be able to run a wheel with 5" backspacing. Who knows how much room I have to the fenders at this point. I might only be able to fit a 7" wide wheel on the front.
         
      • 72bluNblu

        72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        There's only 2 manufacturers of the 2" drop spindles. The Fatman spindles are constructed, they're welded together. The Magnumforce/PST/Firm Feel drop spindles are all the same. Magnumforce was the first to offer them, but I doubt they're the actual manufacturer.

        The caliper position is different between the Magnumforce 2" drop spindles and a standard spindle, and the neck on the spindle is different as well. The caliper bracket clearance may be the issue. You can use stock caliper brackets on the 2" drop spindles, I did when I had them. But you can see the location of the caliper is different, the stock spindles put the caliper at like 10 or 2 o'clock depending on which side you have them on, the MF 2" drop spindles put them at more like 9 or 3.

        Reproduction stock spindle
        spindle3.jpg
        Drop spindle- also notice the difference in the shape of the "face" of the spindle
        IMG_3766.jpeg

        With the 11.75" caliper brackets and caliper - you can see the caliper is basically vertical
        IMG_3771.jpeg

        Not my picture, but you can see the caliper is more at more like the 10 o'clock position
        74%20dart%20066.jpg

        VS the drop spindle, which has it right at 9
        IMG_3773.jpeg

        The caliper brackets are the difference in the Wilwood kits as well
        140-15468 (stock spindle)
        140-15468_kit-xl-jpg.jpg

        140-11547 (drop spindle)
        140-11547_kit-xl-jpg.jpg

        Whether or not they work with the Strange caliper brackets I have no idea. The stock caliper brackets are all sliders too, so if the thickness is off a little on the mounting area on the spindle it doesn't matter much. The Strange and Wilwood calipers are fixed, so you may also need to space them to make them align correctly because the spindle may not be the same thickness at the caliper bracket mounts.
        The drop spindles move the track width the exact same amount as the '73+ BBP pattern disks, that part of the geometry is the same. The biggest difference is the location of the axle stub with regard to the ball joints and steering arms. The tie rod end clearance is really only a big issue if you were planning on larger diameter rims. With 15's the backspace limits are about the same because the tie rod ends are the limiting clearance, it's the ball joints/brakes/suspension. Basically you're not going to run much more than 4.5" to 4.75" of backspace on a 15" rim, and that's pretty much true with either spindle.

        The difference is with the larger diameter rims. A 17" rim clears the ball joints and control arms with a stock spindle, so you can run more backspace until the tie rod ends limit you around 5.6" or 5.7" on most rims. With 18" rims not even the tie rod ends are an issue with stock spindles. But with drop spindles, that steering arm is moving 2" with respect to the center of the wheel. Which makes your rim clearance more like a 15" rim. So you don't get to run a big backspace with the larger diameter rim anymore. I was able to run a 17x9 with 5" of backspace when I was running the 2" drop spindles, but that was totally maxed out on tie rod clearance. That was on my Challenger, you'd need more backspace to fit a 9" on an A-body but the 5" backspace limit would be about the same. It's a little better than what you could do with 15's and stock spindles, but no where near what you can usually do with stock spindles and 17's or 18's.
         
        Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
      • burdar

        burdar Owen's Dad

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        Exactly. That's basically what I was saying but I didn't type it all out as good as you did. I think 5" backspacing is what I'll end up with. How wide a wheel I'll be able to fit is the big concern. Also a 7" wide wheel with 5" backspacing might look pretty goofy. If I don't use the drop spindle though, the UBJ will be at such a sharp angle, I wouldn't be comfortable driving the car. Only time will tell. I need to stop worrying about it and actually measure everything and find out one way or the other.
         
      • 72bluNblu

        72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        I run a ~1 7/8” drop from the factory specs without the drop spindles, the ball joint angle isn’t a problem. It’s 1 7/8” because that puts the LCA parallel to the ground at ride height, factory spec is 1 7/8” for the “a-b” measurement using the factory procedure. The bump steer, roll center and camber curves are better lowered with stock spindles than with the drop spindles.

        The only reason to run drop spindles IMO is if you’re going to run small diameter torsion bars. With 1.03” bars or better the drop spindles are more of a hindrance than a help. Which I why I got rid of mine.
         
      • DrEamer

        DrEamer I suffer from cars on the brain!

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        Just a little side note, but if you tried to call them this week they are most likely closed because of the hazardous air conditions due to all the fires/smoke here in the Pacific NW. A lot of places are closed right now. So, now you know why.
         
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        • 72bluNblu

          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          They’re also a small shop to begin with. They don’t have a bunch of salespeople just sitting around to answer phones. I’ve had to make a few calls to get through in the past, it’s not a big deal. When you do get through you actually get to talk to someone that knows what they’re talking about, which is well worth it.
           
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          • Oldmanmopar

            Oldmanmopar Going left turning right FABO Gold Member

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            Thanks for the info they are great pictures. I ordered them from "Firm feel" I also have disc all 4 wheels coming. Strange race brakes. I'll post pics when they arrive. We need to get them so we can weld in the box tube rear rails to set the ride height. Nothing that came with the Valiant in the boxes for the AJE suspension for the mustang brakes fit the car.

            This is all going on my Demon build.

            100_0137.JPG
             
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