Question on Comp Cam Rockers 1622-16

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Those are TTI shortys.

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I run the last generation of those rockers. Very happy, also they don’t weigh much more if any compared to an aluminum rocker. Also the weight on the steel rocker is closer to the fulcrum point. I think I have seen this question before. I think they are for 1st and 2nd shift
 
All,
I have encountered a MAJOR problem with my "professional" built stroker engine that used these CompCams rocker arms/shafts.
1) Engine was run on dyno(maybe a total of 45-55mins run time) in late january for Cam break-in and power assessment. Other than a few frustrating oil leaks, the engine performed well and ran smoothly.
2) Just re-installed the engine in my duster last week, but some temp exhaust collectors in place and drove the car about 4 miles to my home for some clean-up in prep for a trip to the exhaust shop for a piping work.
3) started the car 2 days ago just to let it idle some and clean up installation, etc.. and planned to drive it a few miles. BUT.....
If i gave it throttle just off idle, a VERY LOUD, inconsistent hammering sound started to happen. First thought it was a bad backfire, but after about 1-2 mins clearly defined it be a hammering sound from the driver's side valve train. Stopped the engine.
After a sleepless night, I Pulled the valve cover expecting that maybe one of the rocker arm lash adjustment studs had become loose and it would be a quick fix to reset and tighten it. HOWEVER, I found two of the pushrods(intake on #1 and exh on #7) to have gaps of ~1/8 inch btwn their tips and the rocker arm cups? the #1 intake rod was able to completely hammer onto the edge of the rocker cup. ALL adjustment studs were still very tight. Decided to call the engine builder before I investigated further.

Over the phone, he was receptive to help investigate/fix the problem:
1) We verified that these rocker arms were indeed suitable for MOPR 360LA use.(but we know that already)
2) Asked me to feel the push-rods to see if they felt oily. Even though I ran it the day before, they all felt completely dry which questions if they were getting any oil?
3) I looked for signs of metal wear-down/grinding at the cups/push-rod tips but could feel nothing with my fingers & could not see any "shiny bits."
3) PLANs are to take the car on a trailer to the builder in Louisville Ky. tomorrow to pull the rocker arm shafts and determine if the shaft oiling passages were properly aligned at installation, assess any damage, etc....

ANY ADVICE on what type of installation errors/parts failures could lead to this condition?
-THX Scott M.
 
At this point, if you’re not comfortable “digging into it” yourself before letting the builder have a look........ I’d say just wait and see what he finds.

I will say this, those rockers have a very specific adjustment range they need to be within in order to properly oil the adjusters/pushrods.

Frankly, that’s probably the best case scenario(burned up pushrod or adjuster)....... although proper rocker oiling should have been verified before the engine was ever fired.

One other option is the cam is toast(if it’s a flat tappet cam).
 
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Without any more disassembly than pulling the valve cover, spark plugs(to make it easier to turn the motor over), and distributor, if you had a priming tool you could verify that all the rockers are oiling properly....... or not.

While priming, slowly turn the motor over until the oil feed holes in the cam bearing are aligned with the holes thru the cam, and oil will come flowing out from the rockers.
If the adjuster screws are within their correct range of adjustment, oil will come flowing out of them onto the pushrods.
When the holes in the cam are aligned with the holes in the bearing, there should be a lot of oil flowing out from between the rockers, the adjusters, etc.
 
My best guess? If the push rod(s) are not bent, and the rockers are not damaged, the cam is most likely wiped out.
 
Guys, Appreciate the feedback. Will know more this time tomorrow but here are additional details:

1) Engine build was completed in early Jan2021
2) Engine was broken in and dyno tested at Dale Meers facility in Buffalo, Ky in late Jan2021. This included a lengthy pre-lube and verification of oil flow at rockers; ~20mins run @ 1800rpm and another ~20mins at ~2200rpm. After a cool down, engine was restarted, carb adjustments made and several dyno pulls made. Oil Pressure & temps were good throughout. Upon completion, oil was drained and inspected and oil filter cut open. Looked very clean except for a small number of VERY fine shiny particles that might cover a pencil eraser or the tip of your pinky. Refilled the engine with normal, green, high-zinc brad penn oil and new filter.
3) Dale gave the engine a good bill of health and said, "it's ready to run however you want to run it.."
4) Engine sat in my heated garage until last week when we installed it back in the car.
5) Cranked engine for about 20-30 seconds to help with pre-lube. Connected coil wire and engine fired up without problems, except for a few oil leaks, etc...No sounds of valve train noise.
6) drove the car ~4 miles to my house at 35-50 mph. Only had some temp exhaust tubing in place, so it was a little loud, but did not hear any unexpected noises.
.....which brings us to the present. If the cam is wiped, I can't imagine what else could be done to ensure it wouldn't happen again....
-Scott
 
scott mattingly said:
Guys, Appreciate the feedback. Will know more this time tomorrow but here are additional details:

1) Engine build was completed in early Jan2021
2) Engine was broken in and dyno tested at Dale Meers facility in Buffalo, Ky in late Jan2021. This included a lengthy pre-lube and verification of oil flow at rockers; ~20mins run @ 1800rpm and another ~20mins at ~2200rpm. After a cool down, engine was restarted, carb adjustments made and several dyno pulls made. Oil Pressure & temps were good throughout. Upon completion, oil was drained and inspected and oil filter cut open. Looked very clean except for a small number of VERY fine shiny particles that might cover a pencil eraser or the tip of your pinky. Refilled the engine with normal, green, high-zinc brad penn oil and new filter.
3) Dale gave the engine a good bill of health and said, "it's ready to run however you want to run it.."
4) Engine sat in my heated garage until last week when we installed it back in the car.
5) Cranked engine for about 20-30 seconds to help with pre-lube. Connected coil wire and engine fired up without problems, except for a few oil leaks, etc...No sounds of valve train noise.
6) drove the car ~4 miles to my house at 35-50 mph. Only had some temp exhaust tubing in place, so it was a little loud, but did not hear any unexpected noises.
.....which brings us to the present. If the cam is wiped, I can't imagine what else could be done to ensure it wouldn't happen again....
-Scott
Click to expand...


Never ever crank on an engine to build oil pressure. It’s a lifter killer.
 
I had a push rod pop out cause a piece of Moroso block filler chipped of the intake and hung a valve.

took head off and inspected... all good. Lapped valve just in case and that was 8+ years ago.
 
My guess is the problem is not rocker/p'rod related, but cam related. That is because all the lash adjusters were still tight.

With so many of today's FT lifters made from Crap-anium, I think the cam/lifters failed.
From the description, cannot think of anything else that would give the ~1/8" gap.
 
What I do after the last dyno pull has been made is go thru the valves one more time....... as a final check for anything unhappy going on with the valvetrain.
 
All,
Regretfully, all the news is bad. 2 lifters we're bad because the two cam lobes driving them wiped and rubbed thru the lifter bottoms. Have yet to find any shavings/pull the oil pan/cut open the oil filter. Engine is being pulled during the next few days. Out of frustration, I have decided to simply avoid this issue on the rebuild and shift to a roller cam and lifters(while taking another BIG bite out of my $savings). Ordered new parts today but they were darn pretty scarce due to COVID-19 logistics/manufacturing impacts across the industry. Had to have a custom cam machined since we could literally not find ANY in stock (various sources) that were similar grind to what I was using.
Spoke with Dale Meers (Dyno Shop owner/operator) and he was surprised but not shocked. He is a distributor for Comp Cams (which is what I had) and he has seen more & more poor quality (meaning incorrect metallurgy, soft, etc..) cams in recent years than in the past. His shop dynos/breaks in hundreds of engines a year and they use the same proven preps & procedures for all of them with VERY RARE failures. (I guess I was just lucky). My dyno runs on this engine went smooth with good Oil Press & temps and no detectable metal shavings/bits in either the oil we drained, the oil pan, or in the oil filter we cut open. The lobes must have wiped during the ~10-minutes of running I did just after install and driving 2-3 miles from the shop to my house(using brad penn Hi-Zinc 10-30 oil). He offered to help me negotiate some type of $$ financial restitution directly from Comp Cams if I want to pursue it with them.
I'll be crying in my beer/upset over this for a few weeks at least. -Scott
 
NS1RM21, had TWO same part number Comp cams go bad on his run stand. Back to back 2 weeks apart. Both from summit. Got refunds for cams on both. IIRC, the mild 268 cam.

I had an NOS late 90’s era Mopar Performance cam I sold owner since I flet bad for him.
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Almost year later all is fine.

Ns1rm21, just fired up a Barton/Bullet cam on his 528 Hemi with expensive tool steel flat tappet lifters. No problems at all.

One of the top machine shops around here told him lot of bad quality parts with these buyouts and mergers
 
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Have said it a few times on this forum [ & others ]. If you do NOT want your new FT cam/lifters to fail, have a set of factory lifters [ or aftermarket lifters that are AT LEAST 25+ years old ] re-faced & use them.
 
The lobes must have wiped during the ~10-minutes of running I did just after install and driving 2-3 miles from the shop to my house(using brad penn Hi-Zinc 10-30 oil).
Click to expand...

Not tryin to stir anything up...... but........there is no way the cam went from “perfect”....... to junk in 10 minutes and 3 miles.
rubbed thru the lifter bottoms
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You don’t wear holes all the way thru the bottoms of the lifters in 10 minutes.

That cam started failing on the initial start up.
 
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