Yes. Just use the Eagle pistons in the older engine. Rod length and deck heights are same.
Questions about a 2006 5.7
- Thread starter Dart fan
- Start date
-
anotheridiot
Active Member
What do you do for egr since the old heads have it cast in?
The Eagle heads have the provision for EGR, even though it wasn't used. If not using the EGR, just plug the intake. If needing the EGR on the Eagle, I suppose you could drill the passage. It's right there.
anotheridiot
Active Member
no EGR on a later model, interesting. Dealing with valve seat issues, so I have to change the intake, mainly since 3 other cylinders have piston damage there is most likely more in the intake. Guess I need to research more. I am in Illinois so they wont test a vehicle if the check engine light is on so if it will throw a code I will need to figure something else out. The later plenums are at a 90 degree angle.
Thank you for your help.
The stock intakes flow much better than they’re given credit for. On my 6.4 project, with zero mods on the intake side it’s putting down 615HP to the crank.
anotheridiot
Active Member
Its just turning into a big black money hole right now. I will drop a few thousand into our camaro project that never ends but so far its pistons, heads, gaskets, turned into 4 rods, push rods now since pre eagle are too short, intake that I expected but not getting a 6.1 aluminum for 5-600, then the valve covers wont fit so tack that on just makes the project that should hopefully last into a build. Considering I bought the car with a "hemi tick" from a mechanic that most likely knew it was not the hemi lifter tick. After putting a couple grand into it, those used motors start to look like the better choice, but then again, what do you get or will you be dealing with rebuilding that one.
Yeah, I made the choice early on with my car, it was “build a balls to the wall 360 stroker” for $17k with my shop, or “order a brand new crate motor with accessories ” for $12k.
Obviously the direction changed going from a stock 485 HP build of the crate which increased the budget, but we’ve been keeping as many stock motor parts as it makes sense.
I just get a little annoyed when the standard approach for some folks is to go aftermarket when Ma Mopar did a fine job with some things. (Stamped steel suspension components not withstanding).
anotheridiot
Active Member
I will probably feel differently when the rest of the parts show up, just bummed that I can probably only assemble 4 pistons and install, while waiting for rods and the oil pan gasket. The timing set and melling high volume oil pump is here to feed the lifters, I am at the point I know I should change these lifters, but have no desire to get a no name brand set for 120 when one set of four should cost that. So maybe Rock Auto will send the notification that at least the sealed powers might be in stock before I am ready to put the heads back on to get those for (another) 500.Yeah, I made the choice early on with my car, it was “build a balls to the wall 360 stroker” for $17k with my shop, or “order a brand new crate motor with accessories ” for $12k.
Obviously the direction changed going from a stock 485 HP build of the crate which increased the budget, but we’ve been keeping as many stock motor parts as it makes sense.
I just get a little annoyed when the standard approach for some folks is to go aftermarket when Ma Mopar did a fine job with some things. (Stamped steel suspension components not withstanding).
RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
I feel your pain! I was making a 13.5:1 700hp 5.7 stroker and had to get new pistons. Only 1 place was making them and they wouldn't sell them to me, only to an engine builder. It literally took a year to get the pistons! I am in my 60's and that is a year of racing I'll never get back.
loganscuda
This/These
I have bought 2 long blocks 1 for my truck and 1 for my nephews. The $4k have had no problems with them. I think it actually comes out cheaper. Unless you doing a power build.
anotheridiot
Active Member
Getting exhausting. Got these supposedly 70K mile eagle heads, finally have the short block back together so moving to the heads. Decided to pull the valves to check the seats, clean the valves and lapp since I dont know how these were sitting, like open valves after someone bought the intake and since we got seals with the kit, change the seals.
Everything is fine until pulling the last exhaust valve which is carboned up so bad it actually beat the guide up about a half inch into its bore. This of course smashed the rubber of the valve seal. So the exhaust port is caked with oil, only wet one of the bunch.
What are the options? Knock it down, pop it out so it can be frozen with a heated head and put it in right, or do these need to be machined out and replaced? I figure if I just heat the head I am also heating the guide so its not going to make it easier to move.
Everything is fine until pulling the last exhaust valve which is carboned up so bad it actually beat the guide up about a half inch into its bore. This of course smashed the rubber of the valve seal. So the exhaust port is caked with oil, only wet one of the bunch.
What are the options? Knock it down, pop it out so it can be frozen with a heated head and put it in right, or do these need to be machined out and replaced? I figure if I just heat the head I am also heating the guide so its not going to make it easier to move.
anotheridiot
Active Member
so update, (it says this is the last post even thought I thought I questioned this already) new piston and 4 rods in, new timing set, heavy duty tensioner whatever that does with the stiffer spring, new high volume oil pump, had one valve guide sucked up in the head due to too much carbon on the valve when I changed the seals and cleaned and lapped the valves, took care of that. Got worried so I ordered the new set of MDS lifters so we dont have to pull the heads again, but our manual says you need to change the cam and lifters together when I am looking for the correct locations to put the new lifters in their holders since one set tumbled out in transit..
I got that if you are deleting MDS, but roller cams are hardened, rollers lifters are hardened, why are they saying you treat this like a flat tappet cam? It makes no sense, even though most of this rebuild has not.
So promise, last advice I am looking for, would you put the old set back in that it seems has nothing wrong with them so they stay matched, or replace the knows weak point of this system that makes more sense to me.
I got that if you are deleting MDS, but roller cams are hardened, rollers lifters are hardened, why are they saying you treat this like a flat tappet cam? It makes no sense, even though most of this rebuild has not.
So promise, last advice I am looking for, would you put the old set back in that it seems has nothing wrong with them so they stay matched, or replace the knows weak point of this system that makes more sense to me.
DionR
Well-Known Member
What lifters did you buy? OEM or aftermarket?
Heard some pretty bad reviews on some of the aftermarket ones (Enginetech to be specific). I have a set of those that came with the motor my brother bought for his project and he passed on to me. I'm going to go OEM at some point even thought it is $560 before tax or shipping.
I would guess that the suggestion to replace the cam is more due to the idea that a lifter might have failed and even if the cam looks ok, better safe than sorry. From the factory standpoint, better to replace a part instead of having the rig come back for further work because it wasn't. If there wasn't a failure, I would run the old cam with the new lifters and move forward. But maybe someone else has better knowledge on that.
anotheridiot
Active Member
The deals on the oem parts were bulk packaged, so who knows what you get. The suggestion is hellcat lifters but that would be deleting the MDS anyway. So I am already in the hole since the ultra power are always out of stock and got enginetech. But then again, I can't tell you who's lifters are in it if I choose to put them back.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Just so you know, the "Hellcat lifters" aren't any different than the regulars lifters after '15. I think Mopar improved the lifters when the HC came out, but the same lifter was used in all the Hemi's at the same time.
Why are you keeping the MDS? Because the cam you have has it maybe?
Why are you keeping the MDS? Because the cam you have has it maybe?
anotheridiot
Active Member
Yes, that is the main reason, planned on keeping the cam, well other than not 100% sure my snap on can turn off MDS without also having to pay someone to do that too.
I was under the impression that Hellcat was high performance and did not have the MDS system since any performance lifter from anyone like Melling is MDS delete.
Guess its just the usual of asking the wrong questions from the get go.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I should have been clearer.
You are correct that the HC never had MDS, so it uses 16 of the same lifters. The MDS motors, even the lowly 5.7, use 8 of those same lifters and 8 MDS lifter. My comment was specifically related to the non-MDS lifters and that buying "Hellcat lifters" is pointless as all of the non-MDS lifters are the same.
I think the 2015 lifter superseded the '14 down ones from the factory, but no idea what the aftermarket shows and if they break them down.
anotheridiot
Active Member
Its what I have been doing on Rockauto. check the 07 parts, then check 2012 and then 2020, from Enginetech to Ultrapower all show the same MDS lifter as a replacement, just like the rods are the same, head bolts are the same. I just figure the same people are making these lifters as any of the other brands out there, so whoever improved them did the same thing as the mopars they copied.
Its just exhausting when you supposedly learn something and then it gets "fact checked" if I may say to change the definition.
anotheridiot
Active Member
I finally got brave enough to cut the tape on the enginetech lifters, since the tape on the box said no returns after this is open and was happy to see they sourced their parts from Morel now, so maybe they heard about the problems and went somewhere else. I always thought Morels were one of the better ones.
DionR
Well-Known Member
How can you tell where they sourced them from?
anotheridiot
Active Member
Morel is embossed on the composite holders and and laser etched on the lifters with their part number.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Can you post some pictures?
Any date on the box? Mine have a manufacture date at the bottom of the sticker and are like 2017 or something.
anotheridiot
Active Member
Have barely driven this, but it is fun when I do drive it. Sounds great at start up, the longer I drive, the louder it gets. Seeing where some have gone to a 8.125 pushrod on the exhaust. but it sure sounds more like an oiling issue than lifter tick problems. Thought maybe the PVC system was not allowing oil down quick enough, inside of the valve covers are wet with oil, but no real puddles. Sure seems like there is area for the oil to pull if it was getting there. Got some adjustable pushrods to check length, but when I do get the length and tighten the rocker, the valve opens and then closes again, so I have to be into the preload already with the eagle length stock pushrods, right? Guessing I need to find an oil pressure port and hook a mechanical gauge up there before I pull the front cover off again and replace this new pump?
anotheridiot
Active Member
ok, 3 days in, second set of pushrod length checkers purchased....... you would think that when you cannot get your fingers in to adjust it, that you might be able to get a wrench on it, but nope. So, you search Morel on the internet to get a customer service number, and it goes to Callies, who is in charge of Morel lifter questions, just to have them pawn your call off to companies that sell their lifters. So first call, an engine shop in IL, figuring stay close first. Wait for a while, then the guy picks up and says, you want 1 to 1 and a half turns on the rocker after zero lash. I enlighten him to tell him that these are shaft rockers with no adjustment. He sticks by the one to one and a half turns. I tell him how the Morel instructions clearly say to do the math, figure out your threads per inch, figure out how much a lifter will preload with each turn, and use their figures of .030-.035 for a cast iron block and aluminum heads, so there is a number. He wont get off one to one and a half turns. I put the M8x1.25 rocker shaft bolt in a thread checker, and go a full turn and it goes about .050-.060, another half and its .070. Sounds like too much. We had a good conversation about how I expected every thing to grow and get hotter, but apparently the heads are expanding more which make them clatter when its hot. We got to talking about old time hemis and adjustable pushrods to set lash on solid cams and he said they could make me a set of those. I did not ask, but sounds like the answer over buying multiple lengths of push rods.
So I back off a few hours, get to do some real work, come back and see Howards cams is one of the representatives. He says, how new are the lifters? Come back to this thread to figure about 6 months. He says, they had a number, but their new lifters they are suggesting .060. So apparently, if you buy their new lifters, you are going to be off .020 from the get go.
I guess I should have tried to measure these before christmas when the elves were around.
So I back off a few hours, get to do some real work, come back and see Howards cams is one of the representatives. He says, how new are the lifters? Come back to this thread to figure about 6 months. He says, they had a number, but their new lifters they are suggesting .060. So apparently, if you buy their new lifters, you are going to be off .020 from the get go.
I guess I should have tried to measure these before christmas when the elves were around.
RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
What is your oil pressure at idle on a cold motor?
-
