Questions for the painters...

-
G

GSS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
131
Reaction score
98
Location
MN
I'm ready to epoxy the underside, interior, trunk, and engine bay with DPLF.

I would like to spray epoxy, then seam seal, then topcoat. There is some pitting where I blasted rust, and there are some plug welds that aren't perfect. Would a couple coats of K36 or Slick Sand before the seam sealer be acceptable? I have never used it on the underside. Would it be durable?

Also, where on the front frame rails does the body color end and the grey primer begin?

Thanks!
 
You will need to sand that epoxy before you apply the slick sand, it won't adhere well so I've been told, unless you sand it some to give it something to bite.
 
If it were me I'd fill those pits with evercoat glaze and fill putty, this stuff mixes just like body filler and fills pinholes well, I never use spot putty, it shrinks over time, it's obsolete in my opinion now days.
 
DPLF has a 72 hour top coat window. You can spray primer over it in that window without re sanding or scuffing. Any primer surfacer will work to fill pits dependant on how severe they are.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Another question, does anyone successfully put the color coat over DPLF within the 7 day recoat window but without sanding it first? It always seems to have a little texture to it that I would think would show through. How about when reducer is added and DPLF is used as a sealer?
 
I add reducer to my epoxy primer, as recommended to be my sealer, then it is top coated. BUT that is on OUTSIDE of car I no doubt use a high filler urethane sanding primer before the reduced epoxy sealer, and then topcoat. \
Spot welds, sounds like smoothing it with a 80 grit flap disc, Then sand the area smooth enough with maybe 180? Then epoxy and shoot. It is the underside and truck floor right!????
 
barbee6043 said:
I add reducer to my epoxy primer, as recommended to be my sealer, then it is top coated. BUT that is on OUTSIDE of car I no doubt use a high filler urethane sanding primer before the reduced epoxy sealer, and then topcoat. \
Spot welds, sounds like smoothing it with a 80 grit flap disc, Then sand the area smooth enough with maybe 180? Then epoxy and shoot. It is the underside and truck floor right!????
Click to expand...


Yes, the underside.
Do you use DPLF? Obviously it must lay pretty smooth if you are topcoating over it.

The spot welds are more low than high so I wouldn't be able to grind them further. They are pretty good but with a little work they would not be visible at all.

Mainly, I am just trying to get around sanding the epoxy because it's a pain to sand. I think I will just spray the epoxy and then some Slick Sand on the areas that need to be filled. Then, when the epoxy is fully cured and hard, I will do the sanding. I have always tried to achieve a chemical bond by doing everything within the recoat windows, but recently, I have talked to a few veteran painters that think the mechanical bond is better so I am trying to be a little more receptive to sanding cured substrate and spraying color. (either way is fine according to the P-sheet)
:thumbsup:
 
You should have no issues with adhesion. DP primer cures slow. If you have texture issues you have an application issue. Also you can thin it and I always did with DT 870 or similar depending on the temperature. I usually reduced 25-50% but LF stands for lead free and once they took the lead out of DP primers they became transparent. The transparency is not helped with additional reduction.
 
In my experience, do not use Slick Sand over DP. I shot an engine compartment with DP90, came back a week later, scuffed it, and shot Slick Sand. It softened up the DP, and wouldn't cure. I had to sand the entire engine compartment down again, and just shot it with Slick Sand. They make a product called Feather Fill, with all the properties of Slick Sand( high build, easy to sand) that was created for just this reason. That is what I would use over Dp.
 
furyus2 said:
In my experience, do not use Slick Sand over DP. I shot an engine compartment with DP90, came back a week later, scuffed it, and shot Slick Sand. It softened up the DP, and wouldn't cure. I had to sand the entire engine compartment down again, and just shot it with Slick Sand. They make a product called Feather Fill, with all the properties of Slick Sand( high build, easy to sand) that was created for just this reason. That is what I would use over Dp.
Click to expand...

Didn't know that, thanks!
 
furyus2 said:
In my experience, do not use Slick Sand over DP. I shot an engine compartment with DP90, came back a week later, scuffed it, and shot Slick Sand. It softened up the DP, and wouldn't cure. I had to sand the entire engine compartment down again, and just shot it with Slick Sand. They make a product called Feather Fill, with all the properties of Slick Sand( high build, easy to sand) that was created for just this reason. That is what I would use over Dp.
Click to expand...
I would guess that there was more tot hat than product failure. Probably top coated the dp too quickly or possibly a inaccurate mix with 401 or 402. There is an induction time with 401. Dp epoxy never gets hard. It is somewhat soft by nature and that is why it is labeled a non sanding primer.
 
I have never sanded an epoxy primer, IF I use epoxy as a sealer BEFORE topcoat, it is recommened to be reduced. If I am not happy with surface I would spray a sanding urethane primer and sand it. Then seal and topcoat. BUT I claim to be NO pro bodyman but a guy that has painted more than a few.
Anytime you change companies with the various primers, paints, you run the risk of a problem. Just like using a metal prep (acid) then going to a epoxy, IF not neutralized there can be a reaction, depending on the make up of the epoxy. Also some co.'s epoxy requires a "set time" others not.
I have used epoxy from PPG, SPI, TCP Global. I have b=never had a problem, but I am aware of the characters of them all. Also ya got to have the correct pressure and tip size!
 
67Dart440GT said:
I would guess that there was more tot hat than product failure. Probably top coated the dp too quickly or possibly a inaccurate mix with 401 or 402. There is an induction time with 401. Dp epoxy never gets hard. It is somewhat soft by nature and that is why it is labeled a non sanding primer.
Click to expand...
So, is week of dry time too soon? I mixed it properly, it was dry when I coated it. Check with Evercoat. Featherfill G2 Gray Gallon Please read the details section.
 
If you waited a week you would have been at the very end of chemical adhesion to the epoxy primer. DPLF doesn't scuff well and isn't meant to. When you say it softened up and didn't cure are you meaning the DPLF?
 
Last edited:
I sprayed the DP, It dried. I shot slick sand. It softened up the DP under the Slick Sand. I sanded it off. I f you don't believe me, or the Eastwood website, feel free to do whatever makes you happy.
 
Their product sheet doesn't say anything about not applying it over an epoxy primer..... It says substrates... And includes epoxy primer.....
 
After you DA d it to bare metal, did you use any kind of acid cleaner? Ospho can react to some epoxy primers if not neutralized with water. You know some exoxy requies it to sit 30 min or so before spraying.
Maybe just bad batch of stuff.
 
Many shops commonly apply self-etching primer to bare metal surfaces. But most polyester fillers and epoxy primers should not be applied directly over self-etching primers. So what do you apply when you need additional filling? Feather Fill G2 is the answer. This is from the Eastwood website.
67Dart440GT said:
Their product sheet doesn't say anything about not applying it over an epoxy primer..... It says substrates... And includes epoxy primer.....
Click to expand...
You can keep arguing with me, but, I can read, and I know what happened to me. You weren't there, You have your opinion, I have mine. Let it go.
 
Last edited:
barbee6043 said:
After you DA d it to bare metal, did you use any kind of acid cleaner? Ospho can react to some epoxy primers if not neutralized with water. You know some exoxy requies it to sit 30 min or so before spraying.
Maybe just bad batch of stuff.
Click to expand...
Not sure what I wiped it down with. Probably lacquer thinner. No Ospho. I think it was about a week between the DP90, and the Slick Sand. Possible the DP was a bad mix, since I used the rest of the Slick Sand on other projects, without any issues. I like Slick sand. It's like spray bondo. Even smells like it. Hard like a rock when dry. Sands like butter. I'm just trying to help by relating what happened to me.
 
furyus2 said:
Many shops commonly apply self-etching primer to bare metal surfaces. But most polyester fillers and epoxy primers should not be applied directly over self-etching primers. So what do you apply when you need additional filling? Feather Fill G2 is the answer. This is from the Eastwood website.
You can keep arguing with me, but, I can read, and I know what happened to me. You weren't there, You have your opinion, I have mine. Let it go.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt you can read. Comprehension is probably the issue. It clearly says epoxy and poly primers should not be applied over SELF ETCHING PRIMER. At no point did you say you used self etch as this would be your reasoning behind the issue of compatibility between dp and slick sand (there is absolutely no compatibility issues with this combo)... I have sprayed HUNDREDS OF GALLONS OF DP WITH ZERO ISSUES EVER. Please don't let your inexperienced problems misguide another novice. It gets really old reading the arm chair painters advice to people who don't have a clue if the information is correct or not. No further comment.
 
I have used a lot of TCP Globa's products and never an issue. But I am always trying to learn of any pitfall that can bit me on my *** as I have mixed products from various companies, which many will say don't do. So here I ask some basic questions for my info and others too.
TCP has a primer called DTM ( dire t to metal). I wonder is that an etch primer?? They refer to it as an epoxy also.
I have also applied their DTM epoxy primer and polyester primers directly over it with no problem.

One thing I have read or been told, is problems that can arise from primers with an acid as part of their chemistry. I (assume?) that self etch primer is an example?? They further state, such can cause a problem with material applied over that.
I have seen a problem with cleaning metal with Ospho ( phosphoric aid solution) and coming back with an enamel. It would wrinkle in places, but I cold hardly DA off the stuff!! To be safe, the Ospho nneds to be reapplied wet, and neutralized with water. Ospho not neutralized can cause a problem with Southern Poly primers they also told me.

Back years ago I used the PPG DP stuff where I had a bodyman do the work I am sensitive to stuff and I can not even satnd to smell it. Great stuff, pricy but good stuff! I have had to do all my own work for decade so I try to use products more friendly to me and less expensive too.
 
67Dart440GT said:
I have no doubt you can read. Comprehension is probably the issue. It clearly says epoxy and poly primers should not be applied over SELF ETCHING PRIMER. At no point did you say you used self etch as this would be your reasoning behind the issue of compatibility between dp and slick sand (there is absolutely no compatibility issues with this combo)... I have sprayed HUNDREDS OF GALLONS OF DP WITH ZERO ISSUES EVER. Please don't let your inexperienced problems misguide another novice. It gets really old reading the arm chair painters advice to people who don't have a clue if the information is correct or not. No further comment.
Click to expand...
I see you can't let it go. I didn't say you don't know what your doing. Why do you think it's ok to say that to me? you don't know anything about me, my experience, or what I'm capable of. It's fine if you don't agree. I just related what happened to me, and made a suggestion to the OP. Please tell us O Great Painter, what we should say , and how we should say it so you don't get your panties in a bunch. I hope that car in your avatar is not what you claim to be your body work knowledge. The car in mine was done by me. Quarters, floors, wheel housings, inner front fenders. Passenger fender, Passenger door. All bodywork and paint was done by me. Assembled by me. Built the engine, suspension, and everything else was done by me. If you want to keep arguing for the sake of it, PM me. I apologize to the OP.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top