Radiators: Is 22" enough for 400 HP?

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this is the radiator im running but have it modified for triple flow for much more efficent cooling than regular radiators. i have a high flow electric pump as well zo i need to slow the water down and triple flowing it will help cooling better as well. there are lots of options one can use for cooling. size of total physical isnt the answer 60-70% of the time. it is time allowed to cool the fluid and how ling it is in the radiator moving vs in the engine heating.

also use water only with a bottle of water wetter in it drops the temps average 20° of running temps.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/afc-80100n/overview/
 
turbofreek said:
im lookimg at running a 22x19 triple flow afco rad on my 1500hp hemi turbo setup and street car with drag week on the list to do.

the more you can get air across the fluid to cool it the smaller the rad can be physically. the radiator is capable of 600hp worth of cooling. which is about what my engine will make n/a and street driving without boost. the rad is around 200 bucks. have to have it modified for the triple flow but that doesnt cost hardly anything at all to the cost., but i dont have the part number in front of me.
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Well NOW you tell me. LOL That's what I paid for my 26 inch...200 bucks. I haven't installed it yet. I've been in the process of flushing out my radiator. I added that flush liquid and ran it for awhile. Drove it a few miles for a couple of days. I drained it and what came out looked like diarrhea. I'll upload the pictures in a bit.
 
I bought the AE375 radiator from Ledfoot racing. I was able to just go there an pick it up to save myself some money. It came out to 200 bucks.

In order to prep for replacing the radiator, I figured I should flush it first.

So after running some Prestone Flush and Cleaner I drained the radiator.

What came out literally looked like poop. It was nasty. Then I refilled the radiator with distilled water and did it again for another day to loosen up any remaining crap. After driving that around for a few miles for a couple of days, I drained it again. What came out was less poopy looking, but still pretty gross. This was over the course of this weekend.

Today, I pulled out the old radiator and flushed it out with the garden hose, bolted it back up and added more distilled water and about a gallon of concentrated anti-freeze. I'll leave that in until next weekend because I ran out of daylight.

I'll attach some pictures.
 

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While the old 19 inch radiator was out, I did take the time to mock up the new 26 inch radiator.

I was able to line up two of the top holes of the radiator brackets to pre-existing holes in the core support. They lined up almost perfect, but I did notice that the radiator was a bit crooked. I don't know why that is.

I also noticed that the radiator hits the bottom of the core support on the drivers side. The passenger side, I'm able to stick a finger between the radiator and the lower part of the core support.

I did try closing the hood and it appears that there is no interference, but it's a little hard to tell. I'm guessing my '74 Duster hood has more clearance than earlier model hoods.

What should I do about it being crooked? You'll see what I mean in the pictures.

I'll attach some pictures of my son and I mocking it up.
 

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Use paint stir sticks under the radiator to create a gap between the tank and core support and Play-Doh to check clearance to the cap. I ended up not using factory holes to get it where I wanted. I drilled the core support as well as the radiator mounting flange to arrange the mounting points. You will need some strip aluminum to build the flanges for mounting the fan shroud unit if you are using the Ford fans. I used 2" because it was there but had to trim it in a couple spots, might be better off with 1".

Mine sits 3/8" high from top of core support to corners of the tank and top of the cap is 1-1/2" high. The inside edge the core support is the limit of clearance. Mine rests tight on that inner edge so I used adhesive foam squares I got with my transmission cooler to stifle vibration.

If you are going electric, I recommend doing at least the ammeter bypass while you are at it, if not the bulkhead connector bypass, or at least make sure it's in good shape. If your fans run on a hot day, you could have issues pop up. I am currently in the process due to the ammeter heating up. I do also have an electric vacuum pump, but better safe than smoking.

Hope that helps.
 
KnuckleDuster said:
Use paint stir sticks under the radiator to create a gap between the tank and core support and Play-Doh to check clearance to the cap. I ended up not using factory holes to get it where I wanted. I drilled the core support as well as the radiator mounting flange to arrange the mounting points. You will need some strip aluminum to build the flanges for mounting the fan shroud unit if you are using the Ford fans. I used 2" because it was there but had to trim it in a couple spots, might be better off with 1".

Mine sits 3/8" high from top of core support to corners of the tank and top of the cap is 1-1/2" high. The inside edge the core support is the limit of clearance. Mine rests tight on that inner edge so I used adhesive foam squares I got with my transmission cooler to stifle vibration.

If you are going electric, I recommend doing at least the ammeter bypass while you are at it, if not the bulkhead connector bypass, or at least make sure it's in good shape. If your fans run on a hot day, you could have issues pop up. I am currently in the process due to the ammeter heating up. I do also have an electric vacuum pump, but better safe than smoking.

Hope that helps.
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Good advice! Thanks!

I knew I should have bought some playdough when it was on sale after Christmas!! LOL

Yep, I do plan to go electric in the near future. The ammeter was already bypassed in the dash by a previous owner. The ammeter was actually burned so that explains why they did that.

I already have some 6 gauge wire and a 10 gauge fusible link wire on the way in order to bypass the bulk head all together by connecting the alternator straight to the battery lug on the starter.

My only concern now is that my stock alternator won't be able to keep up with the electric fans. I've been looking into alternator upgrades in the 90 amp to 120 amp range. I didn't think 90 amp is enough though. Seems that most the Denso upgrades are 90 amps.

Seems like the weatherman is saying we're going to get 5 to 7 days of rain, so not sure if I'll be able to replace the radiator this weekend. Hopefully it will clear up by then.
 
I'll guess that the crookedness is due to the rad sitting on the bottom edge of the core support. I'd push down that lip on the core support for 2 things:
1) Get the rad straight
2) You don't want that AL rad restring directly on the core support; it will chafe the AL and may eventual wear through

You can avoid some issues with the bigger alternator and the ammeter by putting the fan through relays directly from the alternator. Of course, that won't fix the big alternator pushing a high level of charging current into the battery via the ammeter....
 
nm9stheham said:
I'll guess that the crookedness is due to the rad sitting on the bottom edge of the core support. I'd push down that lip on the core support for 2 things:
1) Get the rad straight
2) You don't want that AL rad restring directly on the core support; it will chafe the AL and may eventual wear through

You can avoid some issues with the bigger alternator and the ammeter by putting the fan through relays directly from the alternator. Of course, that won't fix the big alternator pushing a high level of charging current into the battery via the ammeter....
Click to expand...

Yes, I would definitely like a bigger alternator. Just don't know what direction to go with that (still confused on what alternator will easily bolt on without spending a fortune on brackets). I guess it's a good thing that my ammeter is gone (well it's not connected so it's a dummy), so I don't have to worry about that anymore.

The side where it's sitting on the core support is actually the lower side of the crookedness, which is the driver's side.

On the passenger side, I can slide my fingers underneath the radiator from the far edge towards the middle where I can't go any father. Hopefully that makes sense.

I was thinking that I can lift it up a bit on the driver's side using the "2x paint stick" method, and then lower the passenger side to match. I can use the pre-existing holes in the core support (same holes I used to bolt it up previously) to mark the radiator bracket to make new holes in the radiator bracket. Then drill new holes in the bottom through the core support, and it should be a done deal.

Right now I'm just trying to flush all that nasty junk that came out of the block and old radiator. Well, I'll have to wait until the weekend to do all this.
 
Look at SlantSixDan's method of using 2 runs of 10ga wire with 4 fuses, better servicabilty than fusible links.
Check out Crackedback's headlight relay setup also.
I love the fan swap to Ford fans but it is not super cheap and requires some thought. If you have questions there are a couple guys on here that can help walk you through it. I learned what I know from them.

Here are some tips-

If you source the fans from the yard then you get all the connectors and low-speed resistor. You will need these. The brand new Dorman fans wont come with them. The factory fans, even used, may be of better quality.
I mounted the Dakota Digital fan controller above the high beam switch on the footwell, it is a handy spot to wire to and be accessable. The wiring can be hidden by the kick panel.
The relays can be mounted to the bottom of the battery tray out of sight, I have my vacuum pump under there, so mine are mounted in the corner of the inner fender along with the 60A fuse.
A good temp guage such as an Autometer Pro Comp will get you a compatible sender to run with the fan controller.

You should be able to source a 78amp square back alternator fom the parts store, but look at the output ratings carefully, as some 78 list actual output as 60amps.
 
Seems silly to think that the extra area of a 26" radiator would not get some air flow. Most radiators don't mount flush against the sheet metal opening, so if a 1" stand-off, air will surely spread to flow thru all the radiator. Depends on your exact geometry and one might have to run a CFD model to estimate well. Why does it happen? Back-pressure builds up from the restriction of the radiator, so the air finds other paths of less resistance.
 
Just so you guys know, I just got my ford fans from Amazon, it came sealed in a Dorman box and had the low speed resistor installed. I don't know if some shady sellers are taking them off and reselling them or what, but if you get a sealed Dorman box fan assembly, it does have the resistor installed. This saves about $30 so worth checking into.
This is the link,
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C17G9K/?tag=fabo03-20
I got it for $112.29 shipped free because I have Amazon Prime, I just noticed that they raised the price to $107.11. But that's still a good price considering that your getting the $30 resistor with it.
Just to pat my own back I wanted to say that I got the 22inch Champion 3 row radiator on Ebay as a blemish for $112 free shipping, SCORE!!! Other than a slight chafing at the very bottom tank I can't find anything wrong with it. It was pressure tested and still has a warranty. Link =
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272089763194?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
 
Dave1967 said:
Why not sneak two 10" pusher fans on the front side of the radiator. Wire them to a switch. I use them for when I am in traffic. I have 3 row champion aluminum radiator. Jaguar fan clutch with vicious fan. Yes I built my own fan shroud. 450 hp 340 six pack.
Click to expand...
You by chance have any pics of this set up? I'm thinking of adding 1- 16" electric fan to the front of my rad. Car wants to heat up sitting in traffic but if fine causing down the road. - And this has been working good for you!??
 
22" 3 core champion with spal 2052 dual 11" pullers. With minimal trimming the Spal fits like it was made for it. Drivers side fan runs off the controller at the top front of driver side inner fender, and the sending unit in the intake. The second is switched from a toggle on the dash. Normal driving is fine, the magnum is happiest around 190-195, but there's plenty traffic here and its hot so i have to flip the toggle on for the second fan when it gets above 210, then it returns to 185-190 real fast. I don't usually leave the pass. side fan on needlessly since it draws a lot of power. The amp is a 140 amp. powermaster and the car has been rewired because I'm using electric everything, even seats.
You can also see the water pump pulley would run interference with a single fan set up, even with duals the clearance is minimal. The Spal had the thinnest gap between the fans that I could find, plus the fit was a pleasant surprise.
360/380 crate magnum, 904, 3.91 gears

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And I was thinking of putting a fan on the grill side/front of the radiator and keeping the regular fan blade on the pully like it comes stock... not sure if that will work or not?..
 
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