Realistic difference 340HP vs TTI early body headers 273

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xLURKxDOGx

xLURKxDOGx

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I am at the point to where all i need to finish my build is a choice of headers and since this HP 273 is going in a 63 valiant, i am wondering what the realistic difference between a set of hp340 Exhaust manifolds and a set off TTI early body headers would be. There's a set of 340 local for 400 and obviously the TTI's are going to be double that. The question is what do i get for double the price???

63 valiant
3.23/7.25
10.5/1
444/444 cam
offenhauser 360 intake


Thanks,
Jake
 
Considering how much trouble the header-install is on those early A's, and the 273 power level, and the $ difference, I'm leaning towards the early HP 340 manifolds(68 to 70?), if they sneak by the steering column.But do you know there's a guy here on FABO that can supply big-mouth Magnum manifolds? He supplies them all cleaned up, and ready to install. search Trebleg.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Considering how much trouble the header-install is on those early A's, and the 273 power level, and the $ difference, I'm leaning towards the early HP 340 manifolds(69 to 71?), if they sneak by the steering column.But do you know there's a guy here on FABO that can supply big-mouth Magnum manifolds? He supplies them all cleaned up, and ready to install. search Trebleg.
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I looked into it but they looked like they were 2" outlet and i thought the 340's were 2.5? I was thinking the same thing about the 340's only because they were local. Arer there real gains to be had with the TTI's other than they look cooler and dump out at 3"???
 
Gains? yes. Worthwhile? With the 444 cam and 273 cubes, probably not much. If it was mine, I wouldnt bother. And it seems to be a bother;everybody seems to have a hard time getting headers to fit. And the engine has to come out, I'm pretty sure.That engine bay is pretty narrow.
Now if it was a 360; different story. For me it would be headers for sure. Unless I was just gonna cruise it. But then what would be the point of putting the 360 in there?
 
I would not spend the money on either the tti or a set of 68-70 340 manifolds.

If they will work, I'd buy a set of 71-74 340-360 manifolds and run it. You'll save a bunch of money! If the manifolds you are looking at are 71-74's for $400... RUN!!!!!
 
There's been serious tests done on different manifolds vs headers, and as I remember, "at about" the 300hp level, there is no significant difference between headers and manifolds, certainly not with a 273 and the trouble you have to go through
 
crackedback said:
I would not spend the money on either the tti or a set of 68-70 340 manifolds.

If they will work, I'd buy a set of 71-74 340-360 manifolds and run it. You'll save a bunch of money! If the manifolds you are looking at are 71-74's for $400... RUN!!!!!
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X2... with those cubes and that cam, the headers wouldn't offer much till just shift point.
 
Treblig does the manifold modifications. Here is his thread.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=286272

He does a VERY professional job and is a stand up guy. The Magnum manifolds come stock with 2.125" outlets. Plenty big enough and since they are Magnum manifolds, they flow very free. Plus he does all his tricks to them and makes them even better. Read the thread. He is a good dude.
 
67Dart273 said:
There's been serious tests done on different manifolds vs headers, and as I remember, "at about" the 300hp level, there is no significant difference between headers and manifolds, certainly not with a 273 and the trouble you have to go through
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks!!

318willrun said:
X2... with those cubes and that cam, the headers wouldn't offer much till just shift point.
Click to expand...

Thanks!!

RustyRatRod said:
Treblig does the manifold modifications. Here is his thread.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=286272

He does a VERY professional job and is a stand up guy. The Magnum manifolds come stock with 2.125" outlets. Plenty big enough and since they are Magnum manifolds, they flow very free. Plus he does all his tricks to them and makes them even better. Read the thread. He is a good dude.
Click to expand...

Thanks RRR, i sent him a message so hopefully he has something. Do the magnums flow better than those 340's?

Jake
 
xLURKxDOGx said:
Ok, thanks!!



Thanks!!



Thanks RRR, i sent him a message so hopefully he has something. Do the magnums flow better than those 340's?

Jake
Click to expand...

Yes I think they do right out of the box. Much less how he mods them. You need to keep something in mind. The outlet size is NOT the end all be all. It's is only one part of the picture. The rest of the manifold......how it's shaped, the runner size......all of that plays an integral part.

Some of the Ford 351C 4V manifolds were some of the best flowing manifolds ever, yet they had only a 2" outlet. It's all about velocity.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yes I think they do right out of the box. Much less how he mods them. You need to keep something in mind. The outlet size is NOT the end all be all. It's is only one part of the picture. The rest of the manifold......how it's shaped, the runner size......all of that plays an integral part.

Some of the Ford 351C 4V manifolds were some of the best flowing manifolds ever, yet they had only a 2" outlet. It's all about velocity.
Click to expand...

Ok, the only thing my brain just keeps going to is BIGGER IS BETTER. I want it to flow as best as it can, even though my setup isnt crazy. Did they use headers on the race hipo/d-dart 273's???

Jake
 
xLURKxDOGx said:
Ok, the only thing my brain just keeps going to is BIGGER IS BETTER. I want it to flow as best as it can, even though my setup isnt crazy. Did they use headers on the race hipo/d-dart 273's???

Jake
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Yes. The original version of the Dougs headers were used.

I say this with all the love I can. Understand I don't know how to sugar coat stuff.

Get your head outta your *** and stop worrying about every last little bit man. It's not a race car. You're not competing with it. Can you AFFORD 1K for headers? In your situation, they will not add an amount appreciable enough to warrant that type of expenditure. Period.

Look, you will be MUCH happier with the permanence of manifolds. They last forever. A good set of HP manifolds will be ALL you ever need. Don't get caught up in all the BS forum hype. It's just not true. Keep it simple man. You will be glad you did.

No offense meant.
 
xLURKxDOGx said:
Ok, the only thing my brain just keeps going to is BIGGER IS BETTER. I want it to flow as best as it can, even though my setup isnt crazy. Did they use headers on the race hipo/d-dart 273's???

Jake
Click to expand...
Bigger is not always better , put 2" or 2 1/2" headers on your stockish dart and it will be a dawg , you might get 8 0r 10 hp more with headers on the 273 , that's might , most of the driving range revs you'll gain nothing .
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yes. The original version of the Dougs headers were used.

I say this with all the love I can. Understand I don't know how to sugar coat stuff.

Get your head outta your *** and stop worrying about every last little bit man. It's not a race car. You're not competing with it. Can you AFFORD 1K for headers? In your situation, they will not add an amount appreciable enough to warrant that type of expenditure. Period.

Look, you will be MUCH happier with the permanence of manifolds. They last forever. A good set of HP manifolds will be ALL you ever need. Don't get caught up in all the BS forum hype. It's just not true. Keep it simple man. You will be glad you did.

No offense meant.
Click to expand...
LOL.... RRR put his arms all around you.... But just so you know, there are 10 second cars out there with manifolds...... Not the easiest way to get into the 10's, but it's been done. So, YOUR 273 with a mild cam will not be shot dead because of no headers....
 
jerry6 said:
Bigger is not always better , put 2" or 2 1/2" headers on your stockish dart and it will be a dawg , you might get 8 0r 10 hp more with headers on the 273 , that's might , most of the driving range revs you'll gain nothing .
Click to expand...

Thanks!!

txstang84 said:
What RRR said...^^^
Click to expand...

Thanks!!

318willrun said:
LOL.... RRR put his arms all around you.... But just so you know, there are 10 second cars out there with manifolds...... Not the easiest way to get into the 10's, but it's been done. So, YOUR 273 with a mild cam will not be shot dead because of no headers....
Click to expand...

Thanks!!
 
I'd start with 64-66 exhaust manifolds, run the HP single exhaust with straight thru muffler and resonator. Dual exhaust will gain a bit at the top end. At least you know it will fit and will still make plenty of power if you did everything right.
 
66fs said:
i'd start with 64-66 exhaust manifolds, run the hp single exhaust with straight thru muffler and resonator. Dual exhaust will gain a bit at the top end. At least you know it will fit and will still make plenty of power if you did everything right.
Click to expand...

x2
 
66fs said:
I'd start with 64-66 exhaust manifolds, run the HP single exhaust with straight thru muffler and resonator. Dual exhaust will gain a bit at the top end. At least you know it will fit and will still make plenty of power if you did everything right.
Click to expand...

There is a set of manifolds on CL for 100, are these worth picking up? I know theres a bunch of them at the junkyard and i plan on swinging by tomorrow to have a look. Any particular casting numbers i should be looking for?

Here's the CL ad. http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/5124030402.html


Jake
 
I think, again, treblig had/has a thread with all the casting numbers and their applications--if nothing else, the search function does work well when you use broad search terms
 
xLURKxDOGx said:
There is a set of manifolds on CL for 100, are these worth picking up? I know theres a bunch of them at the junkyard and i plan on swinging by tomorrow to have a look. Any particular casting numbers i should be looking for?

Here's the CL ad. http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/5124030402.html


Jake
Click to expand...

Those are not the right ones, Passenger side is good. The 64 to 66 Drivers side only is different. The rest are a pain, shifting motor and or steering column. If they even fit or have any clearance.
 
66fs said:
Those are not the right ones, Passenger side is good. The 64 to 66 Drivers side only is different. The rest are a pain, shifting motor and or steering column. If they even fit or have any clearance.
Click to expand...

Thanks!!!!
 
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