Rear axle bearings

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a68postcar said:
i'm not going to poo-poo the greens until i have a difinitive answer. i'm going to call my contact at timken and see if they have any data on the side load. my brother and his buddy in texas build several rears every year and i think they use nothing but green. if timken says that they are ok i'm probably going to have to say ok. i will know more after i speak with them. maybe they have some literature to say one way or the other. good thread boys. this is what this is all about.
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Did you read what dgc333, had to say about the bearings in your car? I'm not an expert, but sounded like yours aren't tapered anyway.
 
dgc333 said:
The Green Bearing is a similar design to the sealed bearings used on millions of FWD vehicles and IFS 4x4's. It has a double row of balls with a two piece inner race that is inserted from opposite sides. These inner races extend up higher on the outer sides than the typical ball bearing giving it improved side load carrying capacity. Certainly they don't have the side carrying capacity of a tapered roller bearing but there is no reason not to expect them to have a long life in a street application.
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Just to put my 2 cents in, I work on a bunch of those FWD cars and see a whole lot of them fail... lol

Me personally though would rather run the stock tapered bearings. But my delimma is that is seems like a lot of disc brake conversions say they require green bearings. Why is this? Is it because of the adjuster? Or because of the actual disc location in relation to the caliper. Also some axle manufacturers say their axles require them as well. Kinda confused on that one too.
 
Dartboy52 said:
Just to put my 2 cents in, I work on a bunch of those FWD cars and see a whole lot of them fail... lol
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When you have a chance post some photos of those failed Green Bearings. I think we'd all like to see them. They fail, is that the reason you don't want to use them?
 
Dartboy52 said:
Just to put my 2 cents in, I work on a bunch of those FWD cars and see a whole lot of them fail... lol
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And I just had to replace one of the sealed FWD bearings on my wifes PT Cruiser at 70K this past week end it was getting noisy. Funny thing on this particular bearing it was a pair of opposing tapered rollers. I have also had to replace both front wheel bearings in my 99 Dakota they started getting noisy within a month of each other, the truck has 150k miles on it. They were the dual row ball style. i have also had adjustable tapered roller bearings that were greased regularly fail as well as the straight rollers in a C-clip axle. All of the sealed bearings failed because the seal failed and crap got into the bearing, doesn't make a difference what style it is when that happens.

A sealed bearing that the seal stays intact will last every bit as long as a bearing that requires periodic service and longer than the one that requires service that is not maintained.
 
dgc333 said:
And I just had to replace one of the sealed FWD bearings on my wifes PT Cruiser at 70K this past week end it was getting noisy. Funny thing on this particular bearing it was a pair of opposing tapered rollers. I have also had to replace both front wheel bearings in my 99 Dakota they started getting noisy within a month of each other, the truck has 150k miles on it. They were the dual row ball style. i have also had adjustable tapered roller bearings that were greased regularly fail as well as the straight rollers in a C-clip axle. All of the sealed bearings failed because the seal failed and crap got into the bearing, doesn't make a difference what style it is when that happens.
A sealed bearing that the seal stays intact will last every bit as long as a bearing that requires periodic service and longer than the one that requires service that is not maintained.
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Looks like this debate is beginning to narrow.
 
So how do you repack the orginal bearings? Do you use a needle to inject the grease? Do you just cup it in with the palm of your hand or what?
 
I have went thru 2 sets of the Green Bearings my self and was going back to the old style. Then I talked to Doctor Diff and he sells the latest generation of the green bearings, that are Great. I have about 10,000 miles on them and a lot of side ways pressure, you know when letting it breath a little. Give him a call or email. [email protected] or call Cass (406)883-4772.
 
Demon416 said:
moper: Thanks for the input. I do understand the Green Bearings will take less side load than the tapered bearings. As dgc333, an engineer also explains in his post here. But, the point is; why do so many misinformed people without any engineering expertise continue to pass on the BS stories about Green Bearings failing? Or passing on information about them not lasting as long because of that side load BS. moper, I'm glad you have the courage and the fearless fortitude to continue using the Green Bearings in your applications. I will continue to use them fearlessly also. lol(BTW Bearing Technologies acquired Green Bearing in 1997 and is no longer called Green.) I could be wrong, but I think I'm right, and if I think I'm right, I could be wrong. LOL Thanks moper.
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Demon I guess you agree to pay his towing , tires , brakes and lost time....
and repair bill in the rare case his greens fail?
The idea here is for the OP to have engough info to make his own choice not a pissing match so you feel better about the fact you installed greens and knew nothing about the potential trouble spots and secretly wish you had known..maybe?
For the OP: My PERSONAL choice in case Would be the stockers.
 
Dotchguy: FYI the Original Poster had his question answered in the first post. I guess this then turned into a debate about Green Bearings. So, did you read this whole thread! This has turned into a simple debate, not as you say a "pissing match." Although I do have a question for you. In an earlier post in this thread you stated, "68 it's true Greenbearing only have about 1/3 of sideload carring capability of the stock tapered roller." May I ask where you got that information? All we were trying to do here was get some definitive proof, one way or the other. Do you have that proof? Thanks for your opinion.
 
So, NHRA requires green bearings, no C clip axles. Doesn't NHRA have some experiences with axle faulures?
 
green1 said:
So, NHRA requires green bearings, no C clip axles. Doesn't NHRA have some experiences with axle faulures?
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I think and I could be wrong, that NHRA wants the green style bearings because they and the ring behind them are interference fit to the axle whereas axles using the C clip have been know to leave the rear end housing. This happens on the GM style posi's where the axle side gear that is part of the cone style posi gets worn down to the point the C clip falls out of the groove in the posi end of the axle and out goes the axle. Hopefully not into a spectator.

Terry
 
I need to put new bearings and seals in my newly-acquired 8 3/4". I had put green bearings in my old '68 Coronet Wagon and they failed within a year...done with 'em! Went to Hub Bearing and ordered a new set of Timkens and seals for under $70. Argue all you want, but why didn't Mopar install the green bearings back in the day? Not as durable and even w/any material improvement made w/the greens- you'll find the better material in the tapered, too making them that much better!
 
6T9 V-100 said:
I need to put new bearings and seals in my newly-acquired 8 3/4". I had put green bearings in my old '68 Coronet Wagon and they failed within a year...done with 'em! Went to Hub Bearing and ordered a new set of Timkens and seals for under $70. Argue all you want, but why didn't Mopar install the green bearings back in the day? Not as durable and even w/any material improvement made w/the greens- you'll find the better material in the tapered, too making them that much better!
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I don't think they made the Green Bearings "back in the day." I sure would like to see some photos of the Green Bearing failures. Does anyone out there have any? I do remember reading an article, maybe 10 years ago or so, where people were having problems with the first generation Greens. But since then I haven't seen or read anything authoritative about them. I don't think we're arguing here, we're just looking for some informed answers.
 
A while back I was confused by all the naysayers on Green Bearings so I e-mailed Bearing Technologies. See the link below for their response. I had an old forest service truck that must have had half a million miles on it and when I salvaged the rear end discovered that Green bearings had been installed sometime during it's life. If bearings can survive that duty they will probably survive any normal use in a car!!!

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=6039
 
grimreaper said:
A while back I was confused by all the naysayers on Green Bearings so I e-mailed Bearing Technologies. See the link below for their response. I had an old forest service truck that must have had half a million miles on it and when I salvaged the rear end discovered that Green bearings had been installed sometime during it's life. If bearings can survive that duty they will probably survive any normal use in a car!!!

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=6039
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Thanks for the info. grimreaper. I took the liberty of posting the letter you recieved from Bearing Technologies in this thread also. Hope you don't mind.

Following letter was sent to Bearing Technologies by grimreaper.
Green bearings for street

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I kept encountering opposing opinions on whether the Green 8-3/4 axle bearing were suitable for street use. So I wrote to Bearing Technologies Ltd. to get the story directly from the source.

So here's the scoop:
The question is whether or not the RP400 bearing kit for Mopar 8-3/4" axles is suitable for street car applications. There has been a lot of discussion that since your catalog lists it under "Racing" that racing is the only application. Some have also said that the RP400 doesn't have enough lateral retention for street use. Others have said that they have several thousand miles of street use with the RP400s in their axles and have encountered no problem. Can you clear up the issue for me?

Dear XXXXXXXXX,

I received your question about the RP400. I'll try to answer this to the best of my ability. The original intent of the RP400 designed by the Green Bearing Company was meant as a replacement for the original taper bearings in the rear end of Chrysler / Mopar applications. It was made for street vehicles, as were all of Green's automotive bearings. Over time these products became favorites of custom axle manufacturers such as Moser Engineering, Strange Engineering and Mark Williams Enterprises. Green, being a job shop, manufactured a multitude of bearings for these outfits and started categorizing them as "Racing" bearings due to the fact that the products were becoming popular in that application.

There are a lot of these bearings on the road in both street applications as well as on track applications. As far as performance, all I can say is that these have been a staple in our product line with no revisions / issues for a long time. The experts on the performance of the product in various applications would be Moser or Strange. If you would like to contact them, you have to ask specifically for the RP400 with the fixed flange because there is a modified version (MO400) which was designed by request for Moser and has a slide over flange with a snap ring retainer.

You can visit www.moserengineering.com or call 260-726-6689 for more information.

Thank you for your interest in our products.

Best Regards,
Brian Graziadei

Bearing-Technologies LTD
 
I'm not positive exactly why they were made... but I recall hearing they had to be used with aftermnarket axles because the factory endplay adjuster type flanges would not fit the aftermarket axles. So whether or not that's true, I dunno. But in terms of failures, the ones I see fail have always had contamination issues as Dave said. As far as greasing, I use a needle tip on my grease gune and pack them that way. It's a lot cleaner...lol. I'v repaired more factory type than Green type, but that's probably the law of averages. more used means more failures. A side note, some sure grip units (the Tru Trac is one) requires green bearings because of the lack of center spacer in the diff.
 
I've been running (Moser) Green Bearings in this since 1998.
52202OldMJA.jpg
It

It was wheeled & DD till 01, then a weekend wheeler after that. (been parked for the last few years tho)

I haven't checked their conditon lately, but the bearings weren't making any scary noises last time I drove it.

At the time, I thought green's were my only choice when I went to a spool (& 35sp Mosers).

It currently has a full Detroit with the same shafts, and I'm leaning towards going back to factory tapered bearings.

I'll probably start my own thread for that, but wanted to put my 2c in on the Green Bearings lasting so far.
 
deerbreeder said:
Hey guys when using green bearings do you have to remove the thrust block?
If so how do you remove it?
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To really find out mount the axles as if you going to install them.... you'll find out if you have to remove the trust block.

Either a) remove the case and totally disassemble it to remove the the thrust block or b) have the each axle cut down half of the measurement that last axle lacks going. Plus a little bit won't hurt.
 
Okay, I took my axles off my 74 Duster (8 3/4 rear housing) to NAPA to get the rear bearings replaced and the guy in the machine shop tells me its gonna be $250 for parts and labor. Does this sound right?
 
I've used 3 sets of these Green bearings from different manufacturers. Two different sets sounded like a German Tiger tank in less than a year and the other set, the bearings came loose from the flange and started to make the same grumbling noises. I will never use Green bearings again!
Bite the bullet and use Good ole' tapered Timkins and never worry about it again!
 
Carpainter said:
Okay, I took my axles off my 74 Duster (8 3/4 rear housing) to NAPA to get the rear bearings replaced and the guy in the machine shop tells me its gonna be $250 for parts and labor. Does this sound right?
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I think Dr. Diff sells the complete Timkin parts package for about $100, gaskets seals and all.
 
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