Hyper_pak
Old School Chrysler Fan
Nuthing like the look of a Dana under a Mopar.
Rear end advice for racing with a 4 speed
- Thread starter 340MPR
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Get one of those TA covers with the cap supports in it for the 60. They are somewhat expensive new but used ones ain't bad...
Ain't much difference but when ounces count, so does every bit of power robbers.
Can't drive em in town like you do a reg diff but once you learn a couple of tricks, it really isn't a big deal.
Many think that a 9 is much stronger than the 8 3/4.....well, although it is stronger, it isn't that much. Imo, they do not hold a candle to the 9 3/4 (60). Lots of people like the drop out but for those that set up their own gears, you can swap gears in a Dana fairly quickly too if you save the shim package and keep them with the gear set you just removed. That way if you want to go back to them later, it's fairly easy and quick.
weedburner
Well-Known Member
When the clutch is right for a dead hooking manual trans radial car, the hit on the drivetrain will be softer than with an automatic. I've ran low 5.70's with 1.30 60's on radials with 28 spline axles in an un-braced chevy 10 bolt housing, using an overkill 800hp clutch that was 'tamed. Only failure was a twisted driveshaft, that was when I un-hooked the 'tamer for a with/without test back in 2013. Instant failure without the 'tamer hooked up...
Same 28spl axles until Nov last year, then only retired because the driver's side axle/tube was severely bent in a near head-on collision.
Grant
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
It depends on the ratio but yes, that is true. And the lower the gear ratio (higher numerically) the better the D60 is.
Gear selection is getting thin and that’s a shame because except for one small flaw it’s as good as the best 9 inch and far cheaper to build.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Please post up your math because I’ve built both and the 9 is never cheaper.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
33IMP
Well-Known Member
One small point. Disregarding the other parts of the strength equation.....a Ford stock 31 axle is about 25% stronger than the 28s.
A 35 spline axle is almost 50% stronger than a 30 spline.
And a chromemoly axle of the same spline is about 40% stronger than a stock material axle.
So, just the axles, good 35 spline axles are at least 100% or more stronger than stock 30s
35s are available in good material for an 8 3/4, but I believe ONLY for a spool. (Unless dapco offers side gears for their locker)
A 35 spline axle is almost 50% stronger than a 30 spline.
And a chromemoly axle of the same spline is about 40% stronger than a stock material axle.
So, just the axles, good 35 spline axles are at least 100% or more stronger than stock 30s
35s are available in good material for an 8 3/4, but I believe ONLY for a spool. (Unless dapco offers side gears for their locker)
33IMP
Well-Known Member
For all brand new parts, depending on what you want from the nine, I think you are right. Kinda depends on your starting point, and what mods you can do yourself.
Especially if you can narrow a truck Dana yourself, a strong Dana will be a bunch cheaper than a similar strength nine.
Plus alot of HD60's had 35 splines from the factory.
Strange S60 is what a lot of guys went to. Strange S-60 for Mopar, Ford, Chevy/GM Scott destroyed his 8 3/4 and went with the S60 many years ago.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Damn, not only is that a sexy car, you just about can’t make a door car leave better than that.
Nice front suspension drop, about 20-25% of the rear tire is wrinkled and not smashed to death and the rear of the car isn’t all stink bugged out with separation.
And the car is flat with perfect pitch rotation.
Good thing the wife isn’t here because that gets me excited.
PERFECT!! The dude that set that car up had his poop in one nice, neat pile. Awesome.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Okay, Okay!!!
Dana 60 because of the position of the pinion is actually a very efficient rear end, and is not a power robber even though it has a 9-3/4" ring gear.
I run a Mark Williams billet cap on mine (actually I have Mark Williams caps on both sides, but totally not necessary) I just did it because I could. I think the covers are band-aids.
Dana 60 housing can be as cheap as $50 around here, used gear sets are $100, Strange spool (35 spline here) $350, and axles all cost the same.
Use car ends, or in my case I had a junk 9-1/4" housing I robbed them off of.
The one I have in my 63 only cost me $800 complete because I did some thrifty shopping. No 9" Ford can be built anywhere close to that, and as already mentioned.
Dana 60 rules when you look underneath and probably adds at least $1500 to the value of any vehicle that has one.
Tom
Dana 60 because of the position of the pinion is actually a very efficient rear end, and is not a power robber even though it has a 9-3/4" ring gear.
I run a Mark Williams billet cap on mine (actually I have Mark Williams caps on both sides, but totally not necessary) I just did it because I could. I think the covers are band-aids.
Dana 60 housing can be as cheap as $50 around here, used gear sets are $100, Strange spool (35 spline here) $350, and axles all cost the same.
Use car ends, or in my case I had a junk 9-1/4" housing I robbed them off of.
The one I have in my 63 only cost me $800 complete because I did some thrifty shopping. No 9" Ford can be built anywhere close to that, and as already mentioned.
Dana 60 rules when you look underneath and probably adds at least $1500 to the value of any vehicle that has one.
Tom
I think Scott did it himself. I posted a pic of a pro street 66 from the Nats many years back. He liked it so well he found one, took out the slant and added a 360. That lasted on the street for a short time and he decided to stroke the 360 and go racing. That was over a decade ago.
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Scott is @pettybludart here.
33IMP
Well-Known Member
Ladder bar cars sure leave nice, don't they?
Must have a anti roll bar in it t
33IMP
Well-Known Member
I bought an aluminum section for my 9", 4.10s and a spool, at about 40% off, at a black friday sale..... and it still cost me $600 plus. (well over $1000 sticker).
340MPR
Well-Known Member
Wow thanks for all the replies everyone. To be honest I wouldn’t consider putting in a Ford 9”, my car is a lot of things, cruiser, the odd car show, drag racing now, and of course a mopar, I just can’t cross that line of putting in a 9” even though a lot of guys do.
It’s definitely sounding like a Dana60 is the way to go with the 4-speed, my car’s insured for another few weeks and then that’s probably what I’ll follow through with over winter.
Thanks for all the replies guys! Mike N.
It’s definitely sounding like a Dana60 is the way to go with the 4-speed, my car’s insured for another few weeks and then that’s probably what I’ll follow through with over winter.
Thanks for all the replies guys! Mike N.
What clutch are you running? Also, what weight is flywheel?
340MPR
Well-Known Member
Hey Grant,
I have a McLeod Super Street Pro clutch. I actually bought a clutch tamer from you earlier this year but to be honest I haven’t been able to get it dialed in and I wasn’t using it when my rear end broke. I’ll PM you and hopefully I can get some pointer’s from you on getting it dialed in.
Thanks, Mike N
340MPR
Well-Known Member
I have a 22lb McLeod lightweight steel flywheel and McLeod Super Street Pro clutch.
As far as the abuse I throw at it I’m launching at 4500 and shifting at 6500 when racing.
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Good evening,
I have recently been discussing clutches with some very knowledgeable stick racers. My learnings as of recent are that clutch companies want to overclutch every car out there, hence dual disc clutches being sold in large numbers. I notice you have 440hp, and a 550 HP rated clutch. Clutch companies are not wanting their clutch to slip, so high base pressures and discs with very high coefficients of friction are being spec'd. I myself fell to this kind of thinking, not knowing any better. As we speak I have pulled my rxt dual disc out of my Dart and replaced with a Borg Beck and Long PP with 2400lb static base, which will be paired with an aluminum flywheel and organic disc.
After speaking with very successful racers, the realization is that clutches have to slip, or parts break, hence soft lok full race slipper clutches. In fact I'm learning that 60 foot and ET's actually improve with some slippage, while also being much easier on mechanical parts. While I certainly don't imply you need a soft lok, perhaps re evaluate your clutch vs output.
Please be aware, I have no direct experience with these setups yet as I am in the install process currently. I simply express to you the idea to reach out to people actually running this stuff. I find it most interesting that you can call any clutch company you want, you will likely get over spec'd from every one, and likely get a different answer from various techs within the same company.
My suspicion is your parts breakage is more a clutch issue, rather than 8 3/4 weakness.
33IMP
Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with brand loyalty at all. I guarantee, Mopar guys would rather see a 60 than a 9.
I've got a 4.10 Dana in my rr, and an 8 3/4 dapco locker in my savoy.
My nines are in an Opel, and an English Ford. But brand loyalty has nothing to do with those two.
That is correct but you can make clearance for the shocks and close it up with no loss of strength IMO. I've been there:
I ran a 4 speed on the track with some history. I twisted stock 8-3/4" axles, broke a 4.56 489 case setup (ring gear/posi failure), broke a 489 5.13 (ring gear failure), and bent the rear end housing itself. I cured those problems by back bracing the housing, using aftermarket axles, using a 4.86 pro gear setup in MP 742 aluminum housing, spool, but most importantly, using a McLeod Soft Lok clutch to eliminate the launch shock.
Long time since I raced but it was all living without failure in my '65 Barracuda running 10.80s in the quarter mile. I think I was launching at 4000 rpms or so. I suppose a clutch tamer may have helped me but the holy grail for me was the Soft Lok clutch. It is fully adjustable and I loved it. They are fairly expensive nowadays though. FWIW.
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