Rebuilding 318 with 302 casting heads

rebuild 273 engine or 318 engine for 65 barracuda

  • 273

    Votes: 16 29.1%
  • 318

    Votes: 39 70.9%

  • Total voters
    55
  • Poll closed .
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tb65cuda

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I have a 1968 dated 318 engine block that I am getting ready to rebuild. Looking to do mild performance rebuild. I have a set of 302 casting heads, 262/272 duration and 420/441 lift cam, LD4B 4 bbl intake, 600cfm edelbrock carb, Speed-pro aluminum pistons with 1.755 combustion height.
couple questions I have are:

what can I do to the heads (as far as porting and polishing) to get the best flow out of them. And do you recomend a desired head gasket size. I would like to acheive 9.5 -1 compression.
Also I have a 1965 273 motor that I was going to use for parts- I was told the crankshaft is forged steel in them and the connecting rods are lighter weight. I also plan on using the adjustable rockers from the 273. Are these parts something I should consider using or is it not worth the trouble.
The engine will be mounted to A-833 4 speed transmission. I am building this engine for street use only, no racing.
 
318. I"m assuming you plan to rebuild the heads. If so, 1.88/1.60 valves from a 360 would be a nice upgrade. A 70 degree "throat" cut and some basic hand finishing should make for a nice set of heads. The 273 crank might be forged (heavier), but so might a 68 318, and I would suspect the rods are the same. So long as you keep the red line around 6000 RPM you'll be fine.

I suspect that even with .020 steel head gaskets your compression will be a bit lower than 9.5:1. If you use KB 167's you'll be right in there.
 
what can I do to the heads (as far as porting and polishing) to get the best flow out of them. And do you recomend a desired head gasket size. I would like to acheive 9.5 -1 compression.
READ THIS:

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/viewall.html

Also I have a 1965 273 motor that I was going to use for parts- I was told the crankshaft is forged steel in them and the connecting rods are lighter weight. I also plan on using the adjustable rockers from the 273. Are these parts something I should consider using or is it not worth the trouble.

340 rods are heavier but much stronger than either 273 or 318 rods.If you're gonna have to balance anyway I would look for a good used set of stock 340 rods. The adjustable rockers would be nice but not necessary on a street motor.
 
the 273 rods should have floating pins like a 340, since ive never screwed one of these motors together i dont know if you can mix and match rods with floating wrist pins to pistons with pressed pins,,,i would assume not,,,some one here will know for sure,,, all 318 LA cranks are cast,,,except 1967 the first year LA 318 non poly 318,,,and i believe the 318 - 3 crank which is from a truck motor,but im not certian,,,

when you switch cranks you will have to have the block and main caps line bored,,if thsi is a budget street motor i would use the 318 crank there is nothing wrong with that crank,,, the 273 rods with floating wrist pins will rev a little quicker,,but is it worth the extra expense ? whats in your wallet ,,,:burnout:
 
Thanks for all the replies, everyone has given me some great advise. I think I will just use the adjustable rockers from the 273 and that's it. I am trying to do a budget build for the most part, but dont mind spending more for the right combination of parts. If I use the speed-pro pistons, I was going to have the machine shop zero deck the block to the pistons. The pistons are $155.00 with rings and the machining will be $80.00 to zero the pistons (for a total of $235.00).Or Do you think kb-167 pistons ($412.00) would be better choice.
 
Just keep in mind that if you deck the block enough to zero the Speed Pro's you'll possibly need shorter pushrods and will definitely need to mill the port faces of the intake. Whether you remove the material from the block or cylinder head side of the deck, the result is the same. KB's will be close to zero out of the box.
 
I'd use the 273 crank, the 273 rods, and the KB pistons if you're not adverse to "parting out" one for the other. Have the rods redone with good bolts, have the whole thing internally balanced, and spend less on additional milling and parts to try and make that all work.
 
i'd use the 273 crank, the 273 rods, and the kb pistons if you're not adverse to "parting out" one for the other. Have the rods redone with good bolts, have the whole thing internally balanced, and spend less on additional milling and parts to try and make that all work.
x 2
 
The 273 and 318 cranks are a dimensional interchange no need for line boring anything.
 
I voted 318... if you disguise it as a 273 commando...

Don't bother with the different/ later rods, it doesn't matter for what you're doing and the early 318 forged crank/ rods are more than adequate and the same as 273 stuff. Keep the crank and rod sets paired and be sure to number the cap and rod for reassembly. If you can, put the rod cap nuts back on until you are ready to install bearings.

You don't need to balance anything, unless you really want to. The KB pistons, as well as any other oversize or standard replacement cast pistons are going to be within factory balance tolerances, on the light end. You will get more out of the engine on the high RPM end if you are going to balance, in TQ/HP numbers, but it really doesn't matter for a street engine. It will hit 5k no problem and run smooth. Remember, the light/ small end of the reciprocating mass is only considered at 50% of it's actual weight for balancing, so even with slight differences, if there are any, make less of an impact on crank balance. The big thing is to make sure you keep track of the rods that go with the crank and put them back in order, for the big end.

If it's in your budget, you might balance and resize rods with new bolts, but it's not a deal breaker if you skip it, as long as you use a beam wrench to put it back together, like I didn't the first time and had a cap come loose, due to a faulty wrench that read 13-14lbs high. haha...

The 318 with KBs will give you a 9.68:1 if the 302s have open faced valves and cc check around at 62 like mine did. You might drop 1-2cc with flat valves. If you do, it will be closer to 9.8:1

Those pistons hit at .011" from deck, so with Mr.Gasket 1121G .028" gaskets, you wind up with a good .039" quench. No need to zero deck unless you want more compression. Those KBs will get you there without any cutting, if everything is square, but make sure that everything is, or better yet, your machinist, because those 1121Gs need it to seal. I went through a set with a coolant leak on assembly with one head that needed .007" cut and went .010" on my heads. I ended up with 61.5cc, so I radiused the sharp edges on the heart chamber to get it back up to 62. It kept the stock length pushrods just fine on cam centerline and helped a bit with total lift loss from pushrod angle that LAs have, but I did it for the straight surface and nothing more. I didn't have the intake sides done and had no problems fitting the intake.

I paid $380? for the KBs and they did it the right way. If you go with the Sealed Power, you will need to shave a bit from the block to get good quench. Never mind shaving the heads, as that won't bring the piston any closer to them for good quench and they have good CC as is.

If you do take anything off of the heads, just clean them up if they aren't square.

I'm running the same intake and I think it's a great combo for the street with the high velocity heads. Very throttle responsive, but well mannered on the street. Just be sure to pull the pegs from the front and rear of the block at the intake manifold front/ rear and center the manifold, and adjust the bolt holes as necessary. I had to rat tail file a few on my LD4B to get it to sit perfectly centered on my engine/ heads. You don't want the pegs indexing anything, so don't drill the intake. Just pull them and leave them out, use RTV and no gasket, front and rear.

If you gasket match, be sure not to use a 340/360 intake gasket and don't use a cork front/ rear gasket. They crack aluminum manifolds when tightened. The FelPro 1805 set is your magic number. Comes with cork front/ rear that you don't use and the correct 273/318 port size for gasket matching.
 
Agreement, use to your advantage... (up top post.). Dead nuts on....
 
Put a 440 in it with a 273 Commando air cleaner. It'll fool the chebbie guys.
 
I have a 1968 dated 318 engine block that I am getting ready to rebuild. Looking to do mild performance rebuild. I have a set of 302 casting heads, 262/272 duration and 420/441 lift cam, LD4B 4 bbl intake, 600cfm edelbrock carb, Speed-pro aluminum pistons with 1.755 combustion height.
couple questions I have are:

what can I do to the heads (as far as porting and polishing) to get the best flow out of them. And do you recomend a desired head gasket size. I would like to acheive 9.5 -1 compression.
Also I have a 1965 273 motor that I was going to use for parts- I was told the crankshaft is forged steel in them and the connecting rods are lighter weight. I also plan on using the adjustable rockers from the 273. Are these parts something I should consider using or is it not worth the trouble.
The engine will be mounted to A-833 4 speed transmission. I am building this engine for street use only, no racing.

Since it is street (mostly) IMO, leave the 273 intact. Which ever crank you plan to use, be sure it will accommodate a pilot bushing. The 273 and 318 use the same weight rods, so there are not any balance problems swapping parts around.

I'm using a '68 teen with 302 heads. For street, a 3 angle valve job and a little port blending will be fine.

IMO, the stamped rockers are fine unless you have a mechanical lifter cam. You'll be happy not to have to adjust the valves when its rainy or below freezing outside when the service is due and you have the time.
 
"You don't need to balance anything, unless you really want to. The KB pistons, as well as any other oversize or standard replacement cast pistons are going to be within factory balance tolerances, on the light end. You will get more out of the engine on the high RPM end if you are going to balance, in TQ/HP numbers, but it really doesn't matter for a street engine. It will hit 5k no problem and run smooth. Remember, the light/ small end of the reciprocating mass is only considered at 50% of it's actual weight for balancing, so even with slight differences, if there are any, make less of an impact on crank balance. The big thing is to make sure you keep track of the rods that go with the crank and put them back in order, for the big end."

So the balance, which addresses harmonics that you may or may not see or feel but the crank and block certainly do, is not a big deal? But keeping the rods on the correct journals is? I think you're confused on what's really important there.
 
Factory balance jobs were gross bob weight specs that were really loose.

If you look at any Chrysler service manual, it states that even oversize pistons are spec'd within factory weight tolerances and rebalancing isn't due.

Does it help? Hell yes. If you are going to spin it to the moon or run it hard, it helps a lot. It will help a little with some things on any engine, but it's not completely necessary.

Look at it this way; the stock 318 that I got 175K out of would have gone longer, if the cam wasn't trashed. It wasn't smoking, the bearings looked good and it was a carbed engine with questionable maintenance for 130k of it's life that I had nothing to do with.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter completely, but it makes less of a difference than is often preached, if it's a street motor that will see little or no track use. I don't think Chrysler would have mentioned anything in the books about not rebalancing if it was a big deal on a stock engine.

Forged pistons are another story and have completely different weight specs than any stock, cast piston or replacement.

If I was building an engine that was pushing 300hp or more, I'd balance it, but anything under that is really marginal.

My guess is that when a factory crank and rod set are balanced, more weight is taken out of the crank balancing weights and out of the rod/cap side than the piston/ light end on a cast piston reciprocating assembly, when it is balanced at a shop.

If you think about it, there is more correcting be done in balancing against a factory bob weight tolerance, against factory parts that have been untouched, than there is in just swapping cast for cast pistons on a stock balance job. Meaning: you could do more "fixing" on a stock crank/ rod/ piston set that is on factory balance, than any difference made by swapping pistons on a stock balance.
 
I am taking the 318 block to the machine shop next friday to have the cylinders bored and honed 0.30 over and have them replace the cam bearings. I just bought a set of kb-167 pistons and moly rings. I will be using the stock rods and stock crank (I have all the rods numbered to be put back on the same journels) I will be using clevite 77 rod and main bearings, and durabond cam bearings. I don't plan on turning much more than 4000-4500 rpm, so I don't think I will be doing any balancing. 0.28 head gasket and I am porting and polishing the heads and doing a 3 angle valve job with using 1.88 intake valves and 1.60 exhaust valves. I am trying to decide if I should use the 600cfm carb or jump up to 650cfm. Thanks to everyone who replied and shared their input and advise. I've added performance parts to an engine before, but this is my first complete rebuild of an engine. Any suggestions and advise is always greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
 
I wonder how much it would cost to skip the polishing and balance the rotating assembly instead. I'm not an expert, but from what I have learned, I'd rather put my money in that and skip polishing for a street car.
 
I would have it balanced. Stock Mopar balancing was pretty awful, they seldom met their own tolerances. The 600 CFM carb will be fine, keep it and put that money towards balancing
 
... I am trying to decide if I should use the 600cfm carb or jump up to 650cfm. ...

The 600 cfm will yield better throttle response, the 650 cfm better top end all else being equal. For a street engine, IMO, the 600 cfm would be the better choice.

With the hardware and machine shop services you are putting into this engine, a 5500 rpm redline would be reasonable. This is the point where the heads begin to stall out. Even though you could turn it faster, there is nothing to be gained in doing so.
 
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