replaced valve stem oil seals ... Still smoking ! 273 HP

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stroker402

stroker402

1968 dart GTS convertible
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I had a bad issue with oil burning and smoking out the pipes ......So I replaced the valve guide seals on the 273 hp charger , the oil seals were desinagrated as you can see in the pic. and found all these pieces laying under the valve train gear. . alying on the head .
Well , I thought this was going to solve the smoking issues but it is still smoking pretty bad when I get on it hard..

the engine does not have any internal blow by issues

compression check with gauge is 180# -182# on all cyls. hot and carb wide open .

Plugs look great nothing fouled anywhere. n9y champions.

checked to see if intake manifold might have been sucking air around the ports and appears to be fine also. plugged one side of valve cover and did a air flow test and vacumn check to see any air was being pulled thru the breathers on the covers . (pvc plugged) all looks good there.

This 273 sat for many years .. A mechanic told me it may have sticking rings and I should try a pint of that mystery marvel oil and run it thru for a short time without beating on it to see if would free up sticking rings,

Has anyone ever heard of this to try?

thanks for any inputs on this issue .
john
 

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You'll have to give it time to burn all the oil out of the exhaust system. Meanwhile keep an eye on the oil level.
 
RedFish said:
You'll have to give it time to burn all the oil out of the exhaust system. Meanwhile keep an eye on the oil level.
Click to expand...

Thanks redfish and oklacar !

I was thinking about that too because it was smoking really bad before.. and that oil baked on the insides of the pipes and all......
I probally put 40 miles on since the new valves seal installed..

one thing is ... it does not smoke at start up anymore or hardley anything when at cold start . . but once it warms up just when you put the hammer down it smokes yet... a mechanic told me it has a sticking ring ... and to try that marvel mystery oil .. run a pint in the oil and drive it easy for a short time... maybe it would loosen a stuck ring.
what do you guys think of that ideal ???

john
 
stroker402 said:
Thanks redfish and oklacar !

I was thinking about that too because it was smoking really bad before.. and that oil baked on the insides of the pipes and all......
I probally put 40 miles on since the new valves seal installed..

one thing is ... it does not smoke at start up anymore or hardley anything when at cold start . . but once it warms up just when you put the hammer down it smokes yet... a mechanic told me it has a sticking ring ... and to try that marvel mystery oil .. run a pint in the oil and drive it easy for a short time... maybe it would loosen a stuck ring.
what do you guys think of that ideal ???

john
Click to expand...

I think you should just leave it alone right now. The exhaust is cold when you start the car and it gets hot then starts burning the oil off. Your headers also go up hill so it will take longer to burn off the oil than manifolds would.
 
Good point oklacar !

I'll leave it alone like you said ... give it a chance to burn out that old crusty oil baked on inside the headers and pipes.

Thanks you guys !..... You are the best !
 
I agree with the others. I think it's just going to take a while to burn off all the risidue in the exhaust system. Like mentioned above, keep and eye on the oil level as your putting the miles on it. If the level isn't falling then your on the right track.
 
As I understand, leaking valve stems cause oil to suck into the intake when idling, like sitting at a long red light, then you get smoke as you drive off. Blue smoke under continuous hard throttle could be bad rings, but leftover oil in the exhaust sounds like a great theory.
 
thanks guys !
I agree !
I'll keep an eye on the oil level.. it was going thru a quart every 150 miles before ... but I was beating on it pretty hard.

I took it out the night I put the new seals on and beat her pretty hard and the next day the oil level was still full. so....... I think it appears to be much better.
 
A good rule of thumb is "smokes going up hill, rings-smokes going downhill, valve seals.

And yes the Marvel Mystery Oil is OK to use.

If it continues to smoke and uses oil, put some MMO in the pan and run it for a little bit then change the oil and filter.

If it's been sitting for a long time it could very well be stuck rings.
 
Thanks for that info badsport !

i'll have one of my buddies follow me next out and watch what is going at the talipipes on the down drag ..
from what they tell me it's smokes the worst when i'm on the throttle hard.
cruising at a steady speed its fine no smoke. it's a stick car so it's up and down all the ime with rpms. have to watch it closely and see what it 's doing ..
 
Your oil rings are gum-stuck in their grooves..

I'm not usually a fan of many "mechanic in a bottle" treatments, but Seafoam is an exception. For cleaning out a really varnished or gummed up engine, it does pretty good. Pick up a bottle or two.

First, you want to decarbonize the chambers and intake valves. So you'll use about half a bottle by slowly pouring it into the carb with the (warmed up) engine running. A little in one primary barrel, then a little in the other. You'll need to crack the throttle by hand to keep the engine running as it will want to stall. I usually use about 1/4 throttle and give each barrel one little hit and then one big hit letting the engine stall out after the last hit. Let engine sit for 10-15 minutes. Pour the rest of the first bottle in the gas tank. Pour the second whole bottle in the crankcase (you're gonna change oil in 100 miles). When you start the engine there will be a cloud of smoke and little bits of carbon and sludge will shoot out the tailpipe (so you either do or do not want to do this upwind of your neighbors dinner party).

Don't run the engine too hard with the Seafoam in the crankcase, in fact it works better with stop and go and short trips. Drain after 100 miles, and replace filter. Fill with Wal Mart Synthetic 10w30 and take the car for an extended highway drive. Preferably a route with some hills. You want to really get everything hot and moving. If the engine was a total sludge monster, you do stand some risk of having all the sludge loosen up at once and clog the oil pump pickup. It was going to do this sooner or later anyhow, so just turn towards Pennsylvania and shake your fist at the Quakers and their waxy oils.

An alternate way to free rings, and I do this to engines that have sat dormant a long time would be to pull the plugs and give each cylinder a good shot of PB, Kroil or Liquid Wrench a day or so before I try to start it.
 
C130 Chief said:
Your oil rings are gum-stuck in their grooves..

I'm not usually a fan of many "mechanic in a bottle" treatments, but Seafoam is an exception. For cleaning out a really varnished or gummed up engine, it does pretty good. Pick up a bottle or two.

First, you want to decarbonize the chambers and intake valves. So you'll use about half a bottle by slowly pouring it into the carb with the (warmed up) engine running. A little in one primary barrel, then a little in the other. You'll need to crack the throttle by hand to keep the engine running as it will want to stall. I usually use about 1/4 throttle and give each barrel one little hit and then one big hit letting the engine stall out after the last hit. Let engine sit for 10-15 minutes. Pour the rest of the first bottle in the gas tank. Pour the second whole bottle in the crankcase (you're gonna change oil in 100 miles). When you start the engine there will be a cloud of smoke and little bits of carbon and sludge will shoot out the tailpipe (so you either do or do not want to do this upwind of your neighbors dinner party).

Don't run the engine too hard with the Seafoam in the crankcase, in fact it works better with stop and go and short trips. Drain after 100 miles, and replace filter. Fill with Wal Mart Synthetic 10w30 and take the car for an extended highway drive. Preferably a route with some hills. You want to really get everything hot and moving. If the engine was a total sludge monster, you do stand some risk of having all the sludge loosen up at once and clog the oil pump pickup. It was going to do this sooner or later anyhow, so just turn towards Pennsylvania and shake your fist at the Quakers and their waxy oils.

An alternate way to free rings, and I do this to engines that have sat dormant a long time would be to pull the plugs and give each cylinder a good shot of PB, Kroil or Liquid Wrench a day or so before I try to start it.
Click to expand...
yep....and if you are going to dump some seafoam down the carb do it in some one elses driveway as it will probably leave a bit of a mess wherever the exhaust ends.....
 
Thanks guys !


I've seen that seafoam in action allready and it works ! just by pouring it down the carb.

I don't think I should pour any seafoam in the crankcase oil though because this engine is a sludge bucket inside and it would probally plug all the galleries or oil pump pickup up and creat more problems. afterall it is a detergent and will loosen up all that crud .
I think I will try it down the carb though.put somein the gas tank too.
john
 

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The engine shown in the picture is NOT a sludge bomb. In fact it looks pretty clean for an engine that started out it's life with leaded gas. I'd say it has a pretty good coat of varnish, but not heavy sludge (would look like a coal bin). The Seafoam in the oil WILL soften the varnish, especially if you let the engine warm and cool a few times. Actually that engine looks good enough that I would skip the 10w30 flush oil and go straight to Rotella T6 (5w40) and just run that long term. The diesel spec oils will clean the engine and keep the carbon and such in suspension. Your best bet is to keep fresh oil in it and just drive it. The rings will release, it'll just take hot oil and time.
 
stroker402 said:
Thanks guys !


I've seen that seafoam in action allready and it works ! just by pouring it down the carb.

I don't think I should pour any seafoam in the crankcase oil though because this engine is a sludge bucket inside and it would probally plug all the galleries or oil pump pickup up and creat more problems. afterall it is a detergent and will loosen up all that crud .
I think I will try it down the carb though.put somein the gas tank too.
john
Click to expand...

stroker402 said:
thanks guys !
I agree !
I'll keep an eye on the oil level.. it was going thru a quart every 150 miles before ... but I was beating on it pretty hard.

I took it out the night I put the new seals on and beat her pretty hard and the next day the oil level was still full. so....... I think it appears to be much better.
Click to expand...


Sheeesh, That motor is clean compared to most motors I have seen. Seafoam is a great product but if this was my engine I would burn off the residual oil first from the bad valve seals. I have had motors in storage for twenty plus years, replaced the valve seals and other gaskets then installed them. They might use a tad of oil for the first 300 to 400 miles and after that they would burn a white exhaust pipe. Based off your bold above it seems like the stuck ring may not be stuck at all and the problem has been fixed already.
 
C130 Chief said:
The engine shown in the picture is NOT a sludge bomb. In fact it looks pretty clean for an engine that started out it's life with leaded gas. I'd say it has a pretty good coat of varnish, but not heavy sludge (would look like a coal bin). The Seafoam in the oil WILL soften the varnish, especially if you let the engine warm and cool a few times. Actually that engine looks good enough that I would skip the 10w30 flush oil and go straight to Rotella T6 (5w40) and just run that long term. The diesel spec oils will clean the engine and keep the carbon and such in suspension. Your best bet is to keep fresh oil in it and just drive it. The rings will release, it'll just take hot oil and time.
Click to expand...

Thanks !
I had many engines apart and I thought it looked with a lot of varnish build up . I have changed the oil in it 3 times already with approx 250 miles on it at each oil change .. oil gets pretty black quick so , the oil itself must be loosening all the varnish up .. That's great !
I did pickup a can of seafoam for it today .. just going to pour 1/4 can total down the barrels of the carb when running ( warmed up ) ...then choke it off with more to stall the engine , then let it sit for a while and fire it up again.. maybe do that a few times ... the rest in the tank. hope that does it !
john
 
update

gave the 273hp a shot of seafoam down the carb barrels while running then enough to stall it ..... let it sit for 15 minutes .. start it and let her smoke. did this twice .. change the engine oil and see where that takes the smoking issue. used a half bottle did not pour any in the gas tank.
I've seen that seafoam do miracles.
john
 
video of exhaust after valve seals installed at a cold start .
As you cans see the valve seals took care of any smoking off start when cold.

[ame]http://s446.photobucket.com/albums/qq185/stroker402/?action=view&current=7c739f4c.mp4[/ame]
 
video of 273hp revving after valve guide seals installed .. as you can see still some smoking but no where as bad as it was. so the seals helped.

[ame]http://s446.photobucket.com/albums/qq185/stroker402/?action=view&current=9a7050fa.mp4[/ame]
 
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