Riddle me this, Batman!

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Mean416

Mean416

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Ok, I'm kinda stumped here. Almost embarrassed to even ask here but I am scratching my head. This is on my mostly stock 360 build going into the dart. It's stock except for a comp 265 deh cam, headers and a Holley vacuum secondary. 0.030 over. It's running good on the stand. HOWEVER...

When I shine the timing light to time it, the timing tape isn't lining up where I expect it to, on the timing mark. It's nicely lined up on the balancer TDC mark. I degreed the cam on install.

Distributor points at no 1 spark plug wire, at TDC, on compression stroke. It runs smoothly and with good throttle response. I've quadruple checked the distributor clocking, and verified TDC on compression stroke, no 1 cyl.

Shining timing light when running and I don't see the TDC mark and can't make out any numbers on the timing tape. It's almost like the tape is in the wrong place but I know it's not. The timing mark on the balancer jives with TDC on no 1. Open to suggestions here, hoping I'm just doing something obviously stupid.
 
Timing mark closer to 12 o clock with engine running? A lot of initial advance pushes the mark above the timing cover marks if on drivers side.

Tape on backwards?

Hillbilly timing tape the balancer.
 
So you verified that #1 piston was at TDC on the damper and timing cover, (there are a variety of them) before you put the heads on? Assumed that you have a clamp-on induction timing triggered light? If it runs great, then must have the clamp-on the wrong wire. Doesn't run great, then the timing is off far enough to not show, likely ignition retarded, or cam to crank timing chain off.
 
You sure it was tdc in the comprehension stroke? Piston can be at tdc but not on the compression stroke.
 
Vacuum advance connected to carb? Even on timed port, throttle blades could be open enough to activate, or connected to manifold vacuum. Slipped balancer ring checked with piston stop and degree wheel?
 
Some timing lights have super sensitive pickups that will trigger off the wire they're clamped on and also a nearby one if it's close or touching the pickup.
I've run into that quite a lot and it makes reading the timing difficult or impossible.
 
Pics of balancer showing timing tape please.

Don’t static time it at TDC. Time it at whatever you want your initial timing to be. IE 16-18 degrees btdc. Set the balancer to your number. Then move the distributor to line up with number one terminal. If it doesn’t run well there, the tape is wrong, the balancer slipped, or the timing pointer is wrong for the balancer.
 
What is hillbilly timing tape?

Timing tape I'm using is the msd timing tape kit.

Yes, TDC on compression stroke. I'm sure. Triple checked.

Referencing timing marks on timing cover. It was spot on during cam degreeing.

I degreed the cam, I know it's really at TDC.

I'll try marking it at 16 deg btdc.
 
IMG_20230214_063106.jpg


Pic of the tape. From front side of engine, looking upwards underneath.
 
In all the timing tape I installed, I think that I got one to stick more than 15 minutes. I usually index the damper and make my own marks before installing. Might have light advance springs with the vacuum advance hooked up. Or maybe no advance springs. That is what I would check. You didn’t use a older timing cover with the scale on the right side on your 360 ?
 
Sterling said:
In all the timing tape I installed, I think that I got one to stick more than 15 minutes. I usually index the damper and make my own marks before installing. Might have light advance springs with the vacuum advance hooked up. Or maybe no advance springs. That is what I would check. You didn’t use a older timing cover with the scale on the right side on your 360 ?
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I have had decent luck with the tapes. It a lot easier getting the balancer really clean with the engine in a stand.

Timing scale is on the right side, looking at the engine from the front. TDC coincides with damper and TDC mark on the cover.
 
Start it up and let it idle. Move the dial on the back of the timing light until you can see the marks line up at TDC. This will at least show you how far your ignition is advanced if you know for sure you TDC marks are correct.
 
Hellrats said:
Start it up and let it idle. Move the dial on the back of the timing light until you can see the marks line up at TDC. This will at least show you how far your ignition is advanced if you know for sure you TDC marks are correct.
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Yeah that's what I'm going to try. The only thing I can think of right now is maybe I'm just waaaay advanced.

I also need to check the springs and weights in the distributor just to make sure they aren't advancing too early.
 
Your tape is on correctly. Just make sure it’s the correct size for your balancer.
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TT5.9mag said:
Your tape is on correctly. Just make sure it’s the correct size for your balancer.
View attachment 1716049747
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I measured it. I used the 7.25.

Here's the thing though. I'm not even able to read the numbers with the timing light. It's like it's so far off it's blurry. It's really hard to say. It actually does make me think I'm getting interference from cyl 3.
 
Could be. Hook the clip for the light as close to the plug as possible. Get it to idle down and make sure the springs are doing their job in the distributor. Unhook and plug any vacuum for the va can.
 
I was having similar trouble with the marks on my damper, and just took a sharpie, and made random marks around the circumference until I figured out where it was. Then I installed a new tape, and have not had an issue since. I think I went out 60° on each side of what I thought was zero make an a mark every half inch or so, and just labeling them randomly.
 
Mean416 said:
Yeah that's what I'm going to try. The only thing I can think of right now is maybe I'm just waaaay advanced.

I also need to check the springs and weights in the distributor just to make sure they aren't advancing too early.
Click to expand...
Take the springs and weights out of play. Pin them open, advance it all the way, unless your concerned about gas mileage as that’s the reason the factory had them to begin with. Close the vacuum port. Timing just got a lot easier, the result of this is when you flat peddle it all your timing is in it and you’ll have instant throttle response.
 
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