Rms alterkation track width?

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younggun2.0

younggun2.0

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well guys. I have saved up a bit of money and am on the verge of either starting a new stroker motor (470cid. b block) or going to an aftermarket front suspension. I love the RMS stuff and have heard nothing but stellar reviews. My main concern is the track width of the alterkation front end. i currently have the 73+ spindles and the RMS upper arms and struts rods on my car. I am running the cordoba rotors with wilwood calipers. I have a set of 17x7 wheels with 4.75 bs. on the car now and they fit perfect and were not cheap. I am not going to be buying new wheels. I thought i read someplace that the RMS track width was slightly wider then stock? anyone have any input? Also curious how the manual rack would compare to my current manual steering box. Im a big guy with good size arms so cranking the wheel is not a prob but curious how much harder the wheel is to turn with the manual rack? I also am looking into the alter-k because it would let me run the 2" TTI headers on my low deck in the a-body.



so here are the questions i have laid out and numbered. would love to hear back.

1. is the RMS track width wider then stock?

2. if so can that be changed by cutting upper and lower control arms down to bring spindles in closer?

3. how does the manual rack compare to stock manual box? harder to turn wheel?

4. anyone have real world #'s with how much weight i would loose with the swap. not including brake options? would get new wilwood kit.


also before i get asked. the parts the i have on my dart that are nearly new would get handed down to my 65 valiant so not wasting money by swapping to new suspension.

lets here the input guys.
 
manual racks imo, are easier to steer than a manual box.

yes, track width is 0.125", (1/8") wider than stock discs.

as far as modifiying the system -is impossible without totally butchering everything - all the parts are designed together assuming certain dimensions. Deviating from any one dimension would require changing all the other dimensions in order to have even the slightest semblance of decent geometry and/or fitment.

as far as weight, I lost at least 80 pounds. The AlterK K member and manual rack is lighter than a stock mopar k with a manual steering box.

Using the 12.19 wilwood brakes also saves a bunch of weight over the heavy mopar iron 11" brakes.
 
The older systems were wider. They narrowed them up in recent years. I don't remember how much though. Give bill a call. He will have all info you need.

Weight depends on a lot of different things. Wilwood a are quite a bit lighter and you don't have all the steering linkage. The rack and manual box itself probably aren't that much different in weight though.

Steering wise. I don't remember the feel being much different between the manual rack and box. A lot more precise no doubt. I liked it and Jamie could drive the car with the manual rack with no problem. I did go to the power rack though and man it's awesome. Faster ratio and the perfect feel to the wheel.
 
Keep in mind, the big bolt factory discs have a wider track than the small bolt pattern.....its very obvious when you see a car with the 73 up discs.... the cars look a ton better IMO with the wheels not pushed all the way to the fender lip.
 
thanks guys. alot of info that i have been looking for. My thinking is that the new engine is going to need a 2" primary tube and my current TTI headers are only 1 3/4". That and the weight savings. my car currently weights 3090lbs without my big *** in the seat. try to get the car to 3000lbs race ready.
 
Wish you the best of luck in getting info from Bill. I recently called him and was not very thrilled with him. If somebody were to be writing me a check for 4k I sure as hell would have made sure they were satisfied with my answers.....all I got from him were one word yes and no and the attitude that I was bothering him......that is why I decided to spend my money with Denny......for what it is worth if you look around at Mustang II brake kits you will find that there are a few that alter (narrow) the track width some...perhaps this is how the newer Alter-k's are a bit narrower than the older ones?
 
Lol. You are the first I have ever heard that had any issue talking with bill. Every feedback I have ever seen written were basically the same as my experience. He will talk to you for an hour, answer any questions and never be pushy about you buying his stuff.
 
abodyjoe said:
Lol. You are the first I have ever heard that had any issue talking with bill. Every feedback I have ever seen written were basically the same as my experience. He will talk to you for an hour, answer any questions and never be pushy about you buying his stuff.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it was me, I have no idea. I have spoken to him several times and every phone conversation has pretty much been the same. I have also sent him several emails....all of them went unanswered......There was just no way I was going to be able to send of 4k based upon my experiences with him.....

Surprised me as well.....everybody I have spoken to about him, yourself included, speak very highly of Bill. Perhaps I just caught him at bad times....
 
what spindle does the alter k use?

what about the hemi denny set up?

i want know what car to reference so i can look up some brake packages. im thinking that the after market brake packages may be cheaper for a for spindle.
 
Denny's uses a Mustang II spindle....the following was his response in regards to my spindle question

"I find most that work for the regular MustangII spindle work for the 2"drop Mustang II spindle. The ONLY difference could be the caliper bracket....everything else is the same

I use the drop spindle not go lower the car...but to get the correct geometry without modifying the spindle using the A body upper control arm pivot points / attaching points

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android"
 
I have personal experience with the Alterkation set up having just completed a 69 Hemi Dart project. The Alterkation set up IS wider than stock by almost 2 inches. Wheels are a major problem as not many manufactures offer the correct set up. I had to special order mine and ended up cutting the control arms on top of it an additional 1 inch on each side. The R&P steering is flawless and the car drive great. I also run TTI headers and I would NOT recommend them again as they run VERY tight on the motor and oil temp has been a problem.
 
Just thought I would chime in

There are several design features different with my K frame that I feel are of benefit

1) 58" track width (most are around 61") which allows a larger diameter wheel/tire combo to tuck in

2) with my upper shock mount/ support hoop design greater suspension travel is obtainable.

3) I use a automotive style, greasable tie rod end instead of a heim/rod end. This allows greater travel without bind and superior maintenance. This style of tie rod end also helps eliminate interference issues with the wheel/tire

4) I have one K-frame platform that will accommodate most of our popular Mopar motors, simply by changing mounts ($150 a set)
 
younggun2.0 said:
what spindle does the alter k use?

what about the hemi denny set up?

i want know what car to reference so i can look up some brake packages. im thinking that the after market brake packages may be cheaper for a for spindle.
Click to expand...

Alter-k uses a mustang II style spindle
 
Ok here is the scoop on the alter- measurements.

It's 1/8" wider than the 73-up stuff, or 3/8"wider than a drum brake, since 2008.

Before that it was 5/8"wider, to allow air ride to fit. When they stopped offering air ride in 2008 they narrowed it up 1/2" more per side.

But there are other brake kits available that can make it up to 3/4" per side less than that if desired.


.
 
younggun2.0 said:
......... a set of 17x7 wheels with 4.75 bs. on the car now and they fit perfect and were not cheap. I am not going to be buying new wheels. I thought i read someplace that the RMS track width was slightly wider then stock? anyone have any input?
so here are the questions i have laid out and numbered. would love to hear back.

1. is the RMS track width wider then stock?

2. if so can that be changed by cutting upper and lower control arms down to bring spindles in closer?

3. how does the manual rack compare to stock manual box? harder to turn wheel?

4. anyone have real world #'s with how much weight i would loose with the swap. not including brake options? would get new wilwood kit.


also before i get asked. the parts the i have on my dart that are nearly new would get handed down to my 65 valiant so not wasting money by swapping to new suspension.

lets here the input guys.
Click to expand...

on your wheels.....if memory serves me, Ross (Orangewagon) is running a 18 X 8 on the front w/ 26.3 tall tire. his BS is 5.25 and that puts the hub at the same spot as your wheel with an extra 1/2" of width per side.

turns full lock to lock....is it tight? yes, but looks killer, especially considering how low/slammed it is.

the weight savings I came up with on the HDK is 29.9 lbs....manual steer vs manual steer (minus brake package). the WHOLE manual package....steering assy, arms, torsion bars, ect all, weighed 114.8lbs total The HDK set-up sheds @ 25% of the factory weight
 
HemiDenny said:
on your wheels.....if memory serves me, Ross (Orangewagon) is running a 18 X 8 on the front w/ 26.3 tall tire. his BS is 5.25 and that puts the hub at the same spot as your wheel with an extra 1/2" of width per side.

turns full lock to lock....is it tight? yes, but looks killer, especially considering how low/slammed it is.

the weight savings I came up with on the HDK is 29.9 lbs....manual steer vs manual steer (minus brake package). the WHOLE manual package....steering assy, arms, torsion bars, ect all, weighed 114.8lbs total The HDK set-up sheds @ 25% of the factory weight
Click to expand...


thank you for the info. my wheels fit absolutely perfect right now. i have 225/55/17s. they are 8.5" wide and 26.5" tall. they clear everything by a mile lock to lock and my car is low. they fill up the entire wheel well. what is the steering ratio on your rack? i currently have a factory mopar manual box.

 
most of the manual ,Mustang II based racks are 4 turns, lock to lock....I'm thinking they are appx 16:1, however for more $$$$ , quicker ratios are available. The beauty of the "street rod" style front steer rack....there is a lot of options out there.
 
HemiDenny said:
most of the manual ,Mustang II based racks are 4 turns, lock to lock....I'm thinking they are appx 16:1, however for more $$$$ , quicker ratios are available. The beauty of the "street rod" style front steer rack....there is a lot of options out there.
Click to expand...


my stock box right now is 24:1 i think. If i go to manuel rack im gonna have to get a bigger steering wheel.
 
dont think youll need a bigger wheel. i have the flaming river 16:1 manual box, using the stock steering wheel. steers fine. not hard.
 
Commando66 said:
How about a faster ratio manual box and custom headers?
Click to expand...

I like the rack and pinion steering. Not to mention the updated geometry and weight savings. I also like the idea of off the shelf headers that will bolt to my already existing exhaust.
 
young gun met you on the way out of the show sunday. have bills front and rear set up on my challenger ,cars handling is awesome and I run it hard however front is wider and in reverse with wheel turned tire hits fender. my 69 dart has bills rear but just ordered hemi dennys front for exactly that reason narrower, also running tti headers and dont want any problems. drive em like you stole em. nw dart.
 
you are asking the right questions.

your ride looks great already....good luck with your build.

Denny
 
I'm buying a 69 Valiant and I'm also considering both of these systems
so I'll keep an eye on this thread to see where it goes
 
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