rocker arm oiling HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[danpierson]

ok guys has anyone done the fulltime oiling rocker arm conversion on the LA blocks I'm in the mid stream of converting my 360 to fulltime oiling and I'm need to know what size hole I should use I'm putting a restrictor in the deck surface and I don't want to go to big I have an -4 crossover and .250 hole drill into the left oil passage so if any one has done the conversion please help I was thinking putting a 1/'8" hole in the set screw that I put into the deck let me know if I'm in the ball park and on top of that I'm using full roller rockers please help if you done conversion HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

I wouldn't restrict oil to the rockers.
And if you did, you can do it at the heads rocker stand if you want.

 

[yellow rose]

Why are you resticting oil to the rockers? The system is self limiting. The last thing you need to do is limit oil to the rockers.

And the crossover tube doesn't do ****. It's a waste of time.

 

[replicaracer43]

What are you trying to accomplish? And I agree that crossover is a waste of time

 

[Jadaharabi]

Do not restrict the oil to the heads

 

[Cudafever]

Have you read the sticky above about oil mods^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I would start there. agree, don't restrict the oil to the head.

What RPM are you planning on revving to???

 

[B3RE]

ok guys has anyone done the fulltime oiling rocker arm conversion on the LA blocks I'm in the mid stream of converting my 360 to fulltime oiling and I'm need to know what size hole I should use I'm putting a restrictor in the deck surface and I don't want to go to big I have an -4 crossover and .250 hole drill into the left oil passage so if any one has done the conversion please help I was thinking putting a 1/'8" hole in the set screw that I put into the deck let me know if I'm in the ball park and on top of that I'm using full roller rockers please help if you done conversion HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've done it many times, but not for a full roller rocker, only a bushed rocker with high spring pressure. You must be running the highly recommended Harland Sharps I've heard about.

How are you doing the full time oiling mod? The crossover tube doesn't provide full time oiling to the rocker shafts. When done properly, a restrictor much smaller than 1/8" will be needed. Somewhere in the .040-.060" range is where it should be. You'll have to start small, and work your way up.

Opinions vary on the crossover mod. It has its benefits when done properly, (not like the Mopar book says to do it), and I use it when the application needs it. Not usually on a street motor unless the customer insists. If you've already done it, it won't hurt a thing.

 

[danpierson]

ok the here is what I have done I have drilled right into the left side oil passage thought the oil feed to the head with a .250 drill and cut off oil supply from cam by drilling 1/8" in between two holes of the cam bearing and install so it lines up with mains all done so mains and rod don't starve and went with a an-4 cross over to right side I all so done all the other oil passage mods including the an-6 lifter galley mod with the #1 left main block off and it now is feed by the right side I know from building small block chevy race engines with shaft rocker that full roller rocker use more oil but they oil though the push rod I just want to know what size is too big and I'm not going to debate my decision that being said WHAT IS TOO BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

I never did any oil mods when I ran harland sharps, or any other needle bearing rocker for that matter. What i did was buy the right rocker shafts, proper thickness, fit, and correct size oiling holes in the right location.
Best of luck.

 

[B3RE]

Ok, here is what I have done. I drilled into the left side oil passage, through the oil feed to the head, with a .250 drill and cut off oil supply from the cam, by drilling 1/8" in between two holes of the cam bearing, and installed so it lines up with the mains. This was done so mains and rods don't starve, and went with a AN-4 cross over to right side. I also did all the other oil passage mods, including the AN-6 lifter galley mod, with the #1 left main blocked off. It now is feed by the right side. I know from building small block Chevy race engines, with shaft rockers, that full roller rockers use more oil, but they oil though the push rod. I just want to know what size is too big, and I'm not going to debate my decision. That being said, WHAT IS TOO BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I had to rewrite it. 1/2" is too big, .020" is too small.

 

[yellow rose]

ok the here is what I have done I have drilled right into the left side oil passage thought the oil feed to the head with a .250 drill and cut off oil supply from cam by drilling 1/8" in between two holes of the cam bearing and install so it lines up with mains all done so mains and rod don't starve and went with a an-4 cross over to right side I all so done all the other oil passage mods including the an-6 lifter galley mod with the #1 left main block off and it now is feed by the right side I know from building small block chevy race engines with shaft rocker that full roller rocker use more oil but they oil though the push rod I just want to know what size is too big and I'm not going to debate my decision that being said WHAT IS TOO BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can someone tell me what this accomplished? The number 3 rod doesn't run out of oil because the rockers are fed off the number 2 Rod bearing. Otherwise, number 7 would be hanging off with it.

Don't know what RPM your turning, but at 7800 things start going south. By 8500 it won't oil the number 3 rod. The cross over doesn't fix that.

Ive posted it before, but why will a Chevy turn RPM until they bury the tach and not blue a bearing? Because Chevy has the oil TIMING to the rods correct. Chrysler does not. As RPM goes up, the oil feed holes are lined up for a smaller amount of time. Also, since the time the oil is getting to the Rod is less, it also makes the time the oil feed holes are supposed to be lined up actually gets later.

Saying all that, what I'm saying is decades of testing has shown that you need full pressure, full flow oil to the rods when the piston is about 70* ATDC. That number varies a bit depending on Rod ratio, but that's it.

If you measure a Chevy that's where it is. Look at a Chrysler. It gets the oil there too early. That's why running full groove bearings help. It puts oil to the rods all the time. It won't make a crank live at 8500, but it helps.

 

[nm9stheham]

When done properly, a restrictor much smaller than 1/8" will be needed. Somewhere in the .040-.060" range is where it should be. You'll have to start small, and work your way up.

I am curious.... what would be the danger of starting larger and working down in restrictor size? Overpumping oil to the heads? I would be concerned at starting too small and perhaps burning something up....

BTW, agreed on the size above. The stock flow restriction mechanisms (cam 'interruptor' and flow area restriction into the rocker shaft) ROUGHLY equates to the flow in a hole in a .05" or .06" hole with constant pressure. But that is only a rough number as there are a lot flow dynamics involved and so that is only a starting point. I'd venture to start at maybe .060" or .080" if I wanted to have more than stock flow.

 

[nm9stheham]

don't restrict the oil to the head.

But the oil is already restricted to the heads and rockers.....in 2 places/ways.
1) The oil 'interruptor' in the cam holes having to line up for ANY oil to flow to the heads; this allows flow only about 5% of the time. And that drops at high RPM because the oil mass has to restart flowing from a dead stop each time the holes line up.
2) The smallest flow restriction is in the hole in the bottom of the rocker shaft where the oil comes up through the rocker stand; the flow area between that hole and the shaft hold down bolt is around .034 sq in.

 

[yellow rose]

So is the OP saying he is now feeding oil full time to try rockers? If that's what he's saying, then yes they need to be restricted.

I still question what was gained doing that in the first place.

 

[B3RE]

I am curious.... what would be the danger of starting larger and working down in restrictor size? Overpumping oil to the heads? I would be concerned at starting too small and perhaps burning something up.....

No danger, just a need for more restrictors. Check it small when priming the motor, and go up as needed by opening the restrictor hole further.

 

[danpierson]

for all of you that want to know what my gain is to convert to full time flow you block off the flow through the cam and that directs that oil to the mains and the 4 rods that see a pressure drop every time the hole in cam line up and at higher rpms that pressure drop is a bad thing and my thing was is to put the restrictor in the deck so I wanted to know a size sense you would have to pull the head to change it but after looking at the problem for little while I found a way around having to put in the deck I was able to put one in the head under rocker shaft so I can just pull rocker to change size plus full roller rocker want more oil to keep the needle bearing alive

 

[nm9stheham]

I was able to put one in the head under rocker shaft so I can just pull rocker to change size plus full roller rocker want more oil to keep the needle bearing alive

OK. So you just pull the rockers and put the restrictor in the hole coming up at an angle to the bolt area? That sure does make it easier.

 

[danpierson]

that is correct it needed a little work with carbide rotor file so a tap will start and then tap it with a 5/16 -24 you don't even have to drill it this way I can start at an .080 hole and correct it from there as of to day I have install all the cam bearing 2,3,4 I have drill the oiling hole to 1/8 and I left #1 alone because I'm running the Milidon timing gear drive and I want the extra oil for the oiling of it

 

[danpierson]

Update to full time oiling
I went with an . 080 restrictor and I have ood oil flow to rockers and no oil pressure drop

 

[Jadaharabi]

Saying all that, what I'm saying is decades of testing has shown that you need full pressure, full flow oil to the rods when the piston is about 70* ATDC. That number varies a bit depending on Rod ratio, but that's it.

If you measure a Chevy that's where it is. Look at a Chrysler. It gets the oil there too early. That's why running full groove bearings help. It puts oil to the rods all the time. It won't make a crank live at 8500, but it helps.[/QUOTE)

My question is.
If I grove the main saddles on #2,3and4 around to 70 degrees on the drivers side(left side) and drill thru the bearing at the 70degree point. Would this help keep the rod bearings from going away at 9000?

 

[yellow rose]

Ive posted it before, but why will a Chevy turn RPM until they bury the tach and not blue a bearing? Because Chevy has the oil TIMING to the rods correct. Chrysler does not. As RPM goes

Saying all that, what I'm saying is decades of testing has shown that you need full pressure, full flow oil to the rods when the piston is about 70* ATDC. That number varies a bit depending on Rod ratio, but that's it.

If you measure a Chevy that's where it is. Look at a Chrysler. It gets the oil there too early. That's why running full groove bearings help. It puts oil to the rods all the time. It won't make a crank live at 8500, but it helps.[/QUOTE)

My question is.
If I grove the main saddles on #2,3and4 around to 70 degrees on the drivers side(left side) and drill thru the bearing at the 70degree point. Would this help keep the rod bearings from going away at 9000?

Probably not. As I understand it, there needs to be full pressure and flow to the rods. So grooving the bore and moving the hole probably won't help.

Theoretically a full groove main bearing should fix it. It helps, but doesn't fix it.

 

[Duane]

Update to full time oiling
I went with an . 080 restrictor and I have ood oil flow to rockers and no oil pressure drop

I am doing this mod on my new build very similar to how you have done it. This mod is now in the stroker small block book by Jim Sziligy. You are doing it slightly different because of the rockers you are using. I am using a bushed rocker(Norris) and the recommended
Size hole in the oil galley is .050 thou with no restrictors in the deck or head. Because you drilled such a large passage in the galley you will have to restrict elsewhere or you will have very low oil pressure.
You should post a picture of what you are doing because many people confuse this crossover line mod with the crossover mod for number 4 main bearing which is completely different.
What you are doing by drilling the new relocated holes in the cam bearings is twofold. One is completely cutting off the oil to the rockers from 2&4 and restricting all the cam bearings to 1/8 inch feed from the mains. I did that too exactly the same.This makes the block function as a priority main system if you have also cut or restricted the supply to all the lifters. This should make all the rods and main bearings oil much better.
I am of the opinion that the appearance of a counterbore in the main bearing saddles in later blocks,along with slotted oil feed holes in the bearing shells fixes the oil timing because the oil can exit the bearing shell at full flow, at the 12 o'clock position just like a Chev. The slotted oil hole also increases the dwell time that the rod oil passages have to fill with oil. Although the recommendation for the supply hole to the rockers is .050, I went with .080 to supply both sides of the block. That is a lot of oil if it is continuous full time. I like your idea of easily being able to adjust it under the rocker shaft though.
The brake line in the picture does not plumb into the galley, only the passage up to the rockers, but technically it is called a crossover line.

 

[yellow rose]

View attachment 1715093635

I am doing this mod on my new build very similar to how you have done it. This mod is now in the stroker small block book by Jim Sziligy. You are doing it slightly different because of the rockers you are using. I am using a bushed rocker(Norris) and the recommended
Size hole in the oil galley is .050 thou with no restrictors in the deck or head. Because you drilled such a large passage in the galley you will have to restrict elsewhere or you will have very low oil pressure.
You should post a picture of what you are doing because many people confuse this crossover line mod with the crossover mod for number 4 main bearing which is completely different.
What you are doing by drilling the new relocated holes in the cam bearings is twofold. One is completely cutting off the oil to the rockers from 2&4 and restricting all the cam bearings to 1/8 inch feed from the mains. I did that too exactly the same.This makes the block function as a priority main system if you have also cut or restricted the supply to all the lifters. This should make all the rods and main bearings oil much better.
I am of the opinion that the appearance of a counterbore in the main bearing saddles in later blocks,along with slotted oil feed holes in the bearing shells fixes the oil timing because the oil can exit the bearing shell at full flow, at the 12 o'clock position just like a Chev. The slotted oil hole also increases the dwell time that the rod oil passages have to fill with oil. Although the recommendation for the supply hole to the rockers is .050, I went with .080 to supply both sides of the block. That is a lot of oil if it is continuous full time. I like your idea of easily being able to adjust it under the rocker shaft though.
The brake line in the picture does not plumb into the galley, only the passage up to the rockers, but technically it is called a crossover line.

Grooving the main bore may, maybe, might help. Some. But if you are going to make power at 8000 RPM and up, it won't do any good.

 

[Duane]

Saying all that, what I'm saying is decades of testing has shown that you need full pressure, full flow oil to the rods when the piston is about 70* ATDC. That number varies a bit depending on Rod ratio, but that's it.

If you measure a Chevy that's where it is. Look at a Chrysler. It gets the oil there too early. That's why running full groove bearings help. It puts oil to the rods all the time. It won't make a crank live at 8500, but it helps.[/QUOTE)

My question is.
If I grove the main saddles on #2,3and4 around to 70 degrees on the drivers side(left side) and drill thru the bearing at the 70degree point. Would this help keep the rod bearings from going away at 9000?

To me the real question to be asked is whether you think full groove bearings are a disadvantage as far as adequate bearing surface.
The Chev method of grooving the saddle still gets less volume to the rods than a full grooved bearing, but the Chev does not use a full grooved bearing. When I talked recently with Mahler clevite they are against full grooved bearings. But Chrysler still recommends there use. Go figure. Converting to full time rocker oiling by abandoning the cam timed oil passages certainly cannot hurt crank bearing oiling.
IMHO. My last build failed 2 and 4 main because I screwed up that restriction, so you certainly cannot say that the rocker feed restriction has no effect on the crank bearings. Why not make all the crank and rod bearings all oil the same way by getting rid of that circuit altogether.

 

[Duane]

that is correct it needed a little work with carbide rotor file so a tap will start and then tap it with a 5/16 -24 you don't even have to drill it this way I can start at an .080 hole and correct it from there as of to day I have install all the cam bearing 2,3,4 I have drill the oiling hole to 1/8 and I left #1 alone because I'm running the Milidon timing gear drive and I want the extra oil for the oiling of it

I did number 1 and 5 the same way. What I did for the gear drive is to drill a .025 bleed hole in the galley plug on the driver side. Drill and tap for 1/8 pipe plug in the hole of the gear drive cam plate in front of the galley and then Dremel a small slot on the back of the cam plate to channel the oil over to the back of the thrust area.
This way you get oil to the gear drive but leave all five cam bearings restricted to 1/8 and no rocker feed. This makes full priority main oiling to all five main bearings. My driver side galley is still wet for my bushed lifter bores that have .030 bleed holes in them to be able to use some of these new roller lifters that oil directly to the axle.