rocker spacers.

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Khyron

Token "B" Body
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Any one know where I can get some of these. I'm still trying to track down that rattle and want to eliminate the possibility that the rockers are shaking around.

I'm going to pull the front end off the motor *groan* and double check the timing. I don't think I screwed it up though. I mean, how hard is it, dot to dot :rolleyes:

Maybe it's that little piece of metal between the lower timing gear and the metal plate :growl:
 
Hi!

We have pleanty of spacers in stock, but we would really like to know what is going on before we send you something you might not need.

Post here or PM us.

We'd be happy to help you out however we can. :thumbup:

Bob & Cici
Outrageously Vintage, Inc.
207-342-2704
 
well, with hydraulic lifters, you should have no "rattling" rockers at all. There should be some preload on every one. Preload is the small amount of compression the plunger of the lifter has, when the lifter is on the cam's base circle. Also, if you are pulling it apart to check the timing chain, invest in the video/kit "How to degree your cam". dot to dot is about as accurate as eyeballing a cylinder head to see it it's flat or warped. It's the best $50 you'll spend, just remmeber to buy one with a small degree wheel, so you can do it in the car..otherwise the wheel hits the K frame. It will surprise you how bad "dot to dot" is. Also sounds like you need to check lifter preload if you havent, and the engine was rebuilt with either the heads, or block were milled, or you swtiched head gaskets.
 
What rocker arms are you using? Are they adjustable?

If the deck of your heads or block were milled, you may need to get custom length pushrods. It certainly wouldn't hurt to buy a pushrod length checker and see what you come up with for the correct length.
 
I forgot this thread was still here... heheh

I solved the problem with my 318, I used it's spacers as they are still good. The motor is now just overheating a bit, the rattle and noises are ironed out so i've been driving her hard. I'm in the proccess if buying a new radiator (there goes more money ;))

Thanks for the advice guys. No more rattles :D
 
Racer Brown cams don't need degreeing. They are made specifically for your engine so the dots always put it where it goes.
 
Degreeing is done to ensure the key way in the crank (and cam) is where it's supposed to be and the keyway in the crank gear (and cam gear) is were it needs to be in relation to the gear teeth and to ensure the "dots" were accurately placed. Once this is determined then you can adjust for in accuracies or deviate from the cam manufacturers recomended installation point if it's desired.

Racer Brown may make their cams spot on every time but that won't make a difference if everything else is not correct. So if it's important to degree brand X then it's important to degree a Racer Brown.

Mopar, I have also heard the stories of how inaccurate the dot to dot is. But with all the CNC equipment being used these days to make parts I find it hard to believe that lining up the dots is an issue any more. I have never degreed or seen a cam degreed where everything is not within a 1/2 degree of where it should be which is of no importance on a street engine.

Most street cams provide the best overall power when they are installed 4 degrees advanced and most cams are ground that way these days so dot to dot will have the cam installed at the ideal 4 degrees advanced. I believe that is what 70Barracuda is refering to when he states that Racer Brown cams do not need to be degreed.
 
Most street cams provide the best overall power when they are installed 4 degrees advanced

True, this gives more bottem end.




and most cams are ground that way these days so dot to dot will have the cam installed at the ideal 4 degrees advanced. I believe that is what 70Barracuda is refering to when he states that Racer Brown cams do not need to be degreed.[/QUOTE]

Also true.
 
Not to be disagreeable, but... The timing sets that are made are all made with a given amount of error in them. It's called manufacturing tolerances. The chain has them, as does each gear. Theres a tolerance for the teeth on the gear, and a tolerance for where the dot, or circle, or triangle is, and for the groove the keyway and dowl pins fit into. Add them up, theere is enough just in the timing set to make it necessary to degree it. Cheap timing sets are MUCH worse.
Every cam manufacturer has different specs in terms of lobe centerline, and installed (recommended) centerline. Custom grinds put it where you want, not much else does. Most grinders do add some advance when they grind a cam, but it depends on the profile. They also have a spec for tolerance, just like the timing components. If you have never found anything off more than .5*, then either you are the luckiest machinist I know, did something wrong, or dont use MP cams, or a combination. Comp is usually dead on the recommended installed centerline, when the "dots" are lined up. MP cams are terrible. Crane is usually close, but no close enough for me to trust them to be dead nuts. The reasons one degrees a cam, is to eliminate the possibility of error from machining, or installer error, or set the centerline to something other than what they ground into it. It's kind of like gapping new spark plugs. If all was perfect, you'd never have to, but shippers drop plugs (as do installers) that close the gap, plugs are made with defects, and sometimes you want to see if a non-stock setting will make more power, or stay cleaner longer. Production engines can use production marks, that's what they are there for. For my engines, I want precision that the factory manufacturer marks cant give you.
For an example, I fixed a 383 for a friend. He had never driven a BB mopar, so when I heard the car running, and then went for a ride, he was surprised when I said it was terrible. Took the timing cover off in the car to degree it. Found the stock replacement timing set was marked almost a full tooth off. Then I degreed it. The MP resto 383 4bbl cam, was brand new, as the rest of the engine was. the cam was ground 6* retarded from where the cam card said it should be. Between the poorly ground cam, and the poorly marked timing set, the "dot to dot" method was 10* off. That was because the timing set was advanced 16*, while the cam was retarded 6*. the car had no cylinder pressure (110-120psi), and no power. Once it was fixed, the engine had 170 psi, and to this day amazes the guys that drive it. (it was sold, but when it was resold, it was in the description). Its the details that make some things work better than others. If this is no big deal, then by all means, keep doing what you're doing, but IMO, it's not the "right" way to do things, and will cost some power and drivability.
 
mopar, I have been an engineer for 30 years now and have a very good understanding of manufacturing tolerances. 15 of those years was working for companies that machined metal. Though I was never involved in the manufacture of gears I was involved in the machining of parts that required the angular placement of holes from a reference point ( i.e., place a dot in relation to a keyway in relation to a gear tooth). Typically tolerences for precision parts like a timing gear are expressed in minutes (as in 60 minutes to a degree) and the CNC equipment any company that wants to be competitive in todays market needs is repeatable to seconds ( as in 60 seconds to a minute). There is just no reason with today's manufacturing technology for there to be the kinds of error you saw and it's can actually be cheaper to make.

At this point in time I have no idea whom the manufacturer of the parts when I was involved in degreeing a cam (it wasn't a mopar engine though). And I do believe if your goal is to squeeze every last once of power out of the engine you should be checking everything. But statistically seeing only a 1/2 error just isn't a big deal.
 
1/2 a degree is irrelevant, yes. I dont want to put faith in statistics, I want definates. My point was, your faith in automotive parts and the manufacturing techniques used are IMO, misplaced. The technology does exist to make good parts. Some companies even use it. But, low bidder, or off shore factories running worn out used equipment, or a labor force that is considered expendable, are where the majority of the parts we install come from. As I said, it's more to make sure things are right. I've found errors I've made when degreeing, thigns that may have caused running issues when it was back together. I've also found many parts not produced the way they were supposed to. Once installed properly, eveything is fine. So, for under $100, and an afternoon watching a video, a hobbyist can do the same quality job many shops charge over $100 for. Why not do it the best you can? Not leave the quality of the install at the mercy of economics.

Oh, BTW , the name's "moper"..as in head down pessemist..lol can you tell?
 
Sorry on the name snaffu!

You know, you are absoulty right. I may be trying to justify to myself for not having tracked down or purchased a degree wheel when I installed the cam in my 360. If I had had one in my tool box the 1/2 hour or so would be well spent and certainly would provide for a sense of statisfaction. :)
 
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