Roller Rockers 1.5 vs 1.6

[Bobzilla]

I thought I read where Mike at B3 wasn’t doing kits for the SM aluminum heads anymore??

I remember Mike posting about the Speedmaster heads that had an incorrect radius in the rocker shaft stands. Some of the heads do not match the contour of the shafts and he, if I remember correctly, believes they made multiple passes to shape those resulting in a bad shape and bad fit. Those he cannot make a kit for until that radius is fixed. Picture the shape looking like a three leafed clover, then try to machine a part to fit that.

Anyone with heads that have a correct contour can probably still give him a call to see what he says.

 

[DentalDart]

IMHO, the OP’s setup is okay with the 901 type springs that the cam calls for. But going with upgraded 1.5 rockers (and by that I mean good quality stiff rockers with consistent ratios) and geometry correction won’t hurt anything. There’s some talk about a different engine being built, so if swapping these heads and rockers onto an improved short block are part of the plan, I say to go ahead and upgrade and have that much out of the way. But I would probably be looking at saving up for a little better rocker than the SM/ProComps. So, what are the plans for an upgrade? Oh, love the calculations that show exactly how much extra clearance that they increased ratio rocker will use up. I’ll be needing to use some of those myself for a nice solid cam upgrade. I got a set of used SM steel 1.5 rockers, so I’m going to get find out how those work on some factory 976 casting heads.

Yeah I will eventually build this motor. All I know is stroker kit. Will call the companies and get what ever they recommend... I dont know engine stuff or calculations to figure this stuff out. Im sure FABO will give me lots of advice on which kits and parts to use when that happens. (Maybe in 6 or 7 months I'll order stuff) If you need a dental crown or implant I got you though

Have a couple other fires going right now regarding work and I'm budget minded... or cheap as my wife would say haha.

 

[DentalDart]

Doc, Unless you are looking for that last little bit of HP running the 1.6 are not going to benefit you that much (almost unnoticeable). Build your heads with the 1.5 rockers making sure everything it set up correctly & run with it. We tried 1.6 rockers on my 416 stroker but the possibility of valve to piston clearance was WAY too close. I went back to 1.5 rockers & have no problems twisting the engine to 6400-6700 RPMs through the traps. Just keep in mind, my application is race only.

Well yes and no. I dont race, heck I am even scared to just do a "real" burnout, holding the brake while pressing gas lol. Just read lots of people getting more out of their engine running 1.6 over 1.5.

 

[DentalDart]

@Bobzilla and @supertruck I have read B3 in the past say he didnt make kits for the SM heads because of the casting differences.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Remember too, Tony is a real race oriented dude. He's gonna tell you to use the rockers that can probably produce the most power......and he's ultimately right. All I'm sayin is, you'll probably never see the difference cruisin the street with the car. On a dyno or the strip, maybe yeah. Isn't the cost about the same? Plus that cam is moderately low lift, so it will see some benefit from the 1.6s. It just boils down to what you want at this point. If you plan on maybe more upgrades in the future, go ahead and grab the 1.6s. They won't hurt anything. But remember to look out for the things I mentioned.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Well yes and no. I dont race, heck I am even scared to just do a "real" burnout, holding the brake while pressing gas lol. Just read lots of people getting more out of their engine running 1.6 over 1.5.

Getting more.......yes on the dyno or drag strip. You'll never feel the difference in the buttOmeter. .......but that doesn't mean the car won't be faster with 1.6s.

 

[DentalDart]

Remember too, Tony is a real race oriented dude. He's gonna tell you to use the rockers that can probably produce the most power......and he's ultimately right. All I'm sayin is, you'll probably never see the difference cruisin the street with the car. On a dyno or the strip, maybe yeah. Isn't the cost about the same? Plus that cam is moderately low lift, so it will see some benefit from the 1.6s. It just boils down to what you want at this point. If you plan on maybe more upgrades in the future, go ahead and grab the 1.6s. They won't hurt anything. But remember to look out for the things I mentioned.

Yes Tony always thinks about all the power like you said. His motors are built right the 1st time, not pieced together loke mine. Haha. I believe he has run multiple sets of the 1.6 and 1.5s. He has like 10 motors built right now. I miss him, need to get back out to Vegas to see him. He has been dealing with some health issues lately.

The 1.6 rockers are actually cheaper by like 50 bucks. Ill make sure I check everything before running.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Yes Tony always thinks about all the power like you said. His motors are built right the 1st time, not pieced together loke mine. Haha. I believe he has run multiple sets of the 1.6 and 1.5s. He has like 10 motors built right now. I miss him, need to get back out to Vegas to see him. He has been dealing with some health issues lately.

The 1.6 rockers are actually cheaper by like 50 bucks. Ill make sure I check everything before running.

He's a good dude and a fantastic asset to this site. I do hope he's doin ok.

 

[Bakerlite]

I remember Mike posting about the Speedmaster heads that had an incorrect radius in the rocker shaft stands.

Yep, pieces of crap. I've had to machine off the stands and replace them they were so bad.
Most people just seem to bolt them on and don't even notice..

 

[DentalDart]

Yep, pieces of crap. I've had to machine off the stands and replace them they were so bad.
Most people just seem to bolt them on and don't even notice..

Yeah I have no clue what this problem is... I took mine out of the box and put them on my car. Knock on wood but so far no problems at all. And this is with stock rockers...

 

[Bakerlite]

Yeah I have no clue what this problem is... I took mine out of the box and put them on my car. Knock on wood but so far no problems at all. And this is with stock rockers...

View attachment 1715935738

I think it's a lottery with these heads, if you buy them over the counter, you can check things out before you take them home, but most come by postal service etc.

 

[Bewy]

T/M Mike,
Post #43. It is simply incorrect, as I tried to point out earlier, to say the V/P clearance will never get less than it is at TDC.
This is from my Isky catalog p. 197, section for checking V/P clearance: 'Caution: Check V/P 5 to 10 degrees on either side of TDC because in some instances [ due to piston dwell & valve velocity ] the valves may be in closer proximity to the piston when slightly off from TDC.'

 

[AJ/FormS]

And finally;
I have run a similar cam, the HE2330AL Hughes cam with 223/[email protected] duration. The advertised was 270/276/110 (@.008 tappet rise). I ran it with the 1.6 arms for a calculated lifts of .538/.549 .. This in a 367 with KB107s and .00 pop-up/.028 gaskets for a Q of .028 in closed chamber Eddies. I ran it from +5 to -3.
I regularly spun that engine to 7000/7200 for four years. I took it out every fall and tore it down for inspection, and retimed the cam.
In the second year, I decked it to .007 pop-up and ran the .039 FelPros/ Q was now .032.
In the Fifth summer I installed the next bigger Hughes cam; HE3038ALcam, 230/[email protected] with advertised of 276/286/110 (still .008 tappet rise) and lifts calculated at .549/.571 This cam is in at 110. And I'm still shifting it at 7000/7200 since 2004. The timing chain set was new in 1999, and has over 100,000miles on it. The PV clearance was never checked. Let me rephrase that; I cannot recall ever checking it. I wish I could tell you I played by the book but, I saw those deep pockets in the 107s and said, sweet.
Here was my test procedure;
with Lifter preload of 1/4 turn.
> Rev it to 6000, engine still idles.
> Rev it to 6500, engine still idles.
> Rev it to 7000, Whoops missed a shift and hit over 8000, and? , engine still idles; must be good-to-go.
> reset lifter preload to 1/2 turn , and just drove it, lol.
I just red-necked my way thru it and got lucky.

BTW
that 223/230/110 cam was a blast at 11.3Scr. I would still be running it if it hadna started dropping lobes right after an oil-change; nobody told me they were gonna take the ZDDP out! That cost me a lotta lotta money. Not to mention a teardown and clean-out. That 223 [email protected], is still my favorite all-time combo.

 

[B3RE]

I thought I read where Mike at B3 wasn’t doing kits for the SM aluminum heads anymore??

Only if the stands are corrected. Then I have no problem doing them.

 

[DentalDart]

Only if the stands are corrected. Then I have no problem doing them.

What do you mean if the stands are corrected?

 

[DentalDart]

And finally;
I have run a similar cam, the HE2330AL Hughes cam with 223/[email protected] duration. The advertised was 270/276/110 (@.008 tappet rise). I ran it with the 1.6 arms for a calculated lifts of .538/.549 .. This in a 367 with KB107s and .00 pop-up/.028 gaskets for a Q of .028 in closed chamber Eddies. I ran it from +5 to -3.
I regularly spun that engine to 7000/7200 for four years. I took it out every fall and tore it down for inspection, and retimed the cam.
In the second year, I decked it to .007 pop-up and ran the .039 FelPros/ Q was now .032.
In the Fifth summer I installed the next bigger Hughes cam; HE3038ALcam, 230/[email protected] with advertised of 276/286/110 (still .008 tappet rise) and lifts calculated at .549/.571 This cam is in at 110. And I'm still shifting it at 7000/7200 since 2004. The timing chain set was new in 1999, and has over 100,000miles on it. The PV clearance was never checked. Let me rephrase that; I cannot recall ever checking it. I wish I could tell you I played by the book but, I saw those deep pockets in the 107s and said, sweet.
Here was my test procedure;
with Lifter preload of 1/4 turn.
> Rev it to 6000, engine still idles.
> Rev it to 6500, engine still idles.
> Rev it to 7000, Whoops missed a shift and hit over 8000, and? , engine still idles; must be good-to-go.
> reset lifter preload to 1/2 turn , and just drove it, lol.
I just red-necked my way thru it and got lucky.

BTW
that 223/230/110 cam was a blast at 11.3Scr. I would still be running it if it hadna started dropping lobes right after an oil-change; nobody told me they were gonna take the ZDDP out! That cost me a lotta lotta money. Not to mention a teardown and clean-out. That 223 [email protected], is still my favorite all-time combo.

The lift on that cam is a bit more than the .477/.480 on the comp xe268h

The cam seems to work pretty well in my car. The car drives pretty dang good, but I know it needs to be tuned properly by someone who knows how to really set timing and adjust air to fuel...

Went for a drive yesterday for over an hour with the whole family. The roads were winding and rolling hills. Car ran great even though one guy passed me on the 2 lane highway... I was going 60 in a 55. No need to hot rod with the whole family.

Also my rear springs really need replaced... the *** end is bouncy and tires rub on fender wells when making turns. So... another project coming shortly.

 

[DentalDart]

Update- I havent purchased anything yet because I have been told by the bank that I am not supposed to buy anything while waiting for my practice loan application to go through.

I did find these crane gold rockers but have no clue if they are for small block or not. And he doesnt have a price, just says make an offer. I assume they are for small blocks because he has multiple 318s and 360s for sale as well.

 

[fishmens67]

^^^^^^^^
Get them!

 

[DentalDart]

^^^^^^^^
Get them!

But don't know if they are for small block or not... or if they are good. I also read they dont make them anymore so if any break you are kind of **** outta luck and have to mismatch rockers.

 

[TT5.9mag]

The crane gold is a nice rocker. And if they come with the shafts and everything I’d say you can’t go wrong if they’re in good shape. I have that same rocker in W2 form and never an issue. Didn’t crane make the mopar branded rockers for MP? Someone who knows chime in please.

 

[Demonracer]

The chances of your breaking them on your engine isn't very high in the probability category. From the small picture you posted, they look like LA shaft mounted rockers.

 

[fishmens67]

I pity you in about 10 or so years. I hope your son weeds out the creeps before they make it to your front door.
I had to run off one guy courting my sister because he reminded dad of himself. lol

 

[Phreakish]

But don't know if they are for small block or not... or if they are good. I also read they dont make them anymore so if any break you are kind of **** outta luck and have to mismatch rockers.

If properly installed, you don't need to worry about breaking.

But those look like bb rockers. Notice the offeset of the adjuster? Sb rockers don't have the offset. Typically there are springs on bb rockers, but he may have swapped solid spacers at some point.

Wouldn't hurt to reach out with a question to confirm though?

 

[crackedback]

If you are driving the car around for fun, I wouldn't waste a dollar on aftermarket rockers for your car. Certainly not with an XE268 size cam.

Those look like offset crane rockers, not for a std port SBM head.

 

[Ottmundr]

How do you decide on which ratio to get?
I didnt get any when I purchased my aluminum heads but now SM has all the SS rockers in stock ( well kinda...) so since they haven't had any in 7 months I think I may pick up a set... I kinda want 1.6 for a little "extra" lift from my cam but worry about valves hitting pistons?

Assemble everything and clay your piston tops, turn the engine over by hand, disassemble and check clay thickness.
Yeah, it's a lot of work. This way you know what you've got.

I can't remember the stuff we use at work. It's some sort of machining clay for checking tolerances like below.