Roller rockers

[1930]

Lots of info on the web but scattered and not specific enough for me.
Lots of opinions from people that seemingly have no basis to form an opinion since they have no experience hands on, only what they have read on other forums.

What are the specific benefits of running roller rockers on either big or small block?

I read less friction which equals less wear and more power which I get but then I also read that unless your basically racing pro-stock or have a see thru valve cover than its a waste of money?

Also assuming its not a complete waste of money than what does it take to convert over to the 1.6 ratio ( versus the standard 1.5 ) on a big block with aluminum heads? Or does that depend on the head manufacturer?

I would imagine that valve clearance would be something to look out for, maybe youd have to run a piston pretty far down in the hole and wouldnt that just debunk things cause of the loss of compression?

Any info anyone can share about installation and benefits of running these would be great, a couple of different types at least avail I.E. shaft mounted and pedestal mounted.

From what I gather even if your running hydraulic cam youd still have an adjustment to make off the pushrod? Not clear on that one.

It seems like possibly longer pushrods would possibly be in order.
I know virtually nothing about the set-up would like to learn. Thanks

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

A lot of questions there. The best reason is to insure rocker ratio. Factory 1.5 rockers can be any thing from 1.32 to 1.5.

 

[twayne24365]

if you go 1.6 check pushrod clearance in the head

 

[famous bob]

Lots of info on the web but scattered and not specific enough for me.
Lots of opinions from people that seemingly have no basis to form an opinion since they have no experience hands on, only what they have read on other forums.

What are the specific benefits of running roller rockers on either big or small block?

I read less friction which equals less wear and more power which I get but then I also read that unless your basically racing pro-stock or have a see thru valve cover than its a waste of money?

Also assuming its not a complete waste of money than what does it take to convert over to the 1.6 ratio ( versus the standard 1.5 ) on a big block with aluminum heads? Or does that depend on the head manufacturer?

I would imagine that valve clearance would be something to look out for, maybe youd have to run a piston pretty far down in the hole and wouldnt that just debunk things cause of the loss of compression?

Any info anyone can share about installation and benefits of running these would be great, a couple of different types at least avail I.E. shaft mounted and pedestal mounted.

From what I gather even if your running hydraulic cam youd still have an adjustment to make off the pushrod? Not clear on that one.

It seems like possibly longer pushrods would possibly be in order.
I know virtually nothing about the set-up would like to learn. Thanks

from the sound of it, I`d suggest that u buy someones books on engine building , and racing engine theory.

 

[1930]

A lot of questions there. The best reason is to insure rocker ratio. Factory 1.5 rockers can be any thing from 1.32 to 1.5.

Im not sure what your answering here or which part

if you go 1.6 check pushrod clearance in the head

Yes, Ive read this, thanks

from the sound of it, I`d suggest that u buy someones books on engine building , and racing engine theory.

I do alot of reading. I understand though that these are some tough questions and it may be difficult to find someone that has the answers. Thanks though for the suggestion.

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

My answer is simple. Factory rockers that are suppose to be a 1.5 ratio, have actually been tested to be anywhere from 1.32 -1.5. This is one of the reasons roller rockers are superior. Got it?

 

[Lustle]

Basically the rockers don't do ****. But what they LET you do is everything.

Roller rockers with roller lifters lets you run a cam with WAY more ramp. It's more of an oval shape rather than a peak shape.

Roller on left. Flat on right.

Roller opens faster. Closes faster. More hang time for the valve. Really "rampy". Really opens and slams that valve. Letting much more flow in.

Now if you're putting JUST roller rockers in. On an existing flat tappet system. The biggest benefit is TRUE rocker ratio. Stamped rockers are "1.5" but many have speced out to 1.45 or less. You'd be amazed what one point of rocker arm can do for power. Adjust-ability is also nice. With stamped rockers you can't "adjust" the lash. And you get better geometry. You can really line everything up nice. I don't really buy the "less friction" part.

Basically it's just a more "exact" fit and part.

 

[twayne24365]

for mild to moderate cams I really like the ductile rocker arms, I've had them on 2 motors with solid cams and spring pressures up to 350# open and 6500-6800rpms, they never loose adjustment and are extremely durable. but once you get in the 400# + region the roller style rocker I believe is better, it is very important to make sure the geometry is right and you have enough rocker to retainer clearance.

 

[1930]

My answer is simple. Factory rockers that are suppose to be a 1.5 ratio, have actually been tested to be anywhere from 1.32 -1.5. This is one of the reasons roller rockers are superior. Got it?

Much clearer now. BTW Im in Plant City as well, you should stop by my shop and we can talk face to face

 

[1930]

Basically the rockers don't do ****. But what they LET you do is everything.

Roller rockers with roller lifters lets you run a cam with WAY more ramp. It's more of an oval shape rather than a peak shape.

Roller on left. Flat on right.

Roller opens faster. Closes faster. More hang time for the valve. Really "rampy". Really opens and slams that valve. Letting much more flow in.

Now if you're putting JUST roller rockers in. On an existing flat tappet system. The biggest benefit is TRUE rocker ratio. Stamped rockers are "1.5" but many have speced out to 1.45 or less. You'd be amazed what one point of rocker arm can do for power. Adjust-ability is also nice. With stamped rockers you can't "adjust" the lash. And you get better geometry. You can really line everything up nice. I don't really buy the "less friction" part.

Basically it's just a more "exact" fit and part.

Thanks for the explanation, Ive already picked out my cam, its not a roller cam so my next question would be ( and it may be a stupid one ) but just to clarify .......do people run roller rockers with regular hydraulic cams and if so Id imagine special pushrods are required?

From what Ive seen two choices are avail as far as mounting and they are the conventional Mopar bar and they can also be mounted in individual pairs? Is that correct? From what Ive read people still prefer the conventional Mopar shaft?

for mild to moderate cams I really like the ductile rocker arms, I've had them on 2 motors with solid cams and spring pressures up to 350# open and 6500-6800rpms, they never loose adjustment and are extremely durable. but once you get in the 400# + region the roller style rocker I believe is better, it is very important to make sure the geometry is right and you have enough rocker to retainer clearance.

Ill look into more info about this on the web, thanks

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

What heads are you running. And yes rollers on a hydraulic cam are a good idea. I have Harland Sharpe roller rockers on my 223/228 @.050 , 538/549 lift Hughes hydraulic flat tappet cam. 1.6 ratio.

 

[Bigdummy]

My answer is simple. Factory rockers that are suppose to be a 1.5 ratio, have actually been tested to be anywhere from 1.32 -1.5. This is one of the reasons roller rockers are superior. Got it?

I got a set of 1.6roller rockers off a company but they were only 1.5.You have to check em all

 

[Lustle]

Thanks for the explanation, Ive already picked out my cam, its not a roller cam so my next question would be ( and it may be a stupid one ) but just to clarify .......do people run roller rockers with regular hydraulic cams and if so Id imagine special pushrods are required?

From what Ive seen two choices are avail as far as mounting and they are the conventional Mopar bar and they can also be mounted in individual pairs? Is that correct? From what Ive read people still prefer the conventional Mopar shaft?

Ill look into more info about this on the web, thanks

You can run roller rockers with hydraulic cams. I'm pretty sure any roller rocker would be fine. You don't need a special push rod. Just a cup/ball style. Vs the ball/ball style you find with stamped rockers.

Stud/pedestal mounted rockers arms are the kind you see in pairs or individually mounted. That's a chevy thing. Shaft mounted are what you see in every Mopar. A single shaft that all the rockers ride on. This is much stronger. Lots of guys go from stud/pedestal mounted to shaft mounted. To help with deflection and flex at high RPM. The only problem with shaft mount is it can be difficult to get the entire valve train lined up properly. Since you are adjusting it as a whole. Rather than individually/in pairs. Stick with shaft mounted.

 

[Ottmundr]

I am on board with twayne24365 for his first point. I want that accuracy of 1.5 or 1.6 from a ductile vs a 1.waffle of the stamped rockers. I prefer to have FEWER moving parts in my engine, so that pushes me away from roller rockers. Granted, stamped are CHEAP! Just check the prices of ductile (about $29 each) vs stamped ($4-$12 each), but what's a couple hundred bucks at the end of your build? I blow as much cash on dinner and dates and lunch at work every month or two as I would on a set of ductile rocker arms. Also, I can afford to lose a few pounds.

 

[1930]

What heads are you running. And yes rollers on a hydraulic cam are a good idea. I have Harland Sharpe roller rockers on my 223/228 @.050 , 538/549 lift Hughes hydraulic flat tappet cam. 1.6 ratio.

Not sure yet, I have a set of cast irons that were the original plan or I have a couple of sets of the aluminum I am looking at as well, maybe a set of pro=Maxx or Eddys

You can run roller rockers with hydraulic cams. I'm pretty sure any roller rocker would be fine. You don't need a special push rod. Just a cup/ball style. Vs the ball/ball style you find with stamped rockers.

Stud/pedestal mounted rockers arms are the kind you see in pairs or individually mounted. That's a chevy thing. Shaft mounted are what you see in every Mopar. A single shaft that all the rockers ride on. This is much stronger. Lots of guys go from stud/pedestal mounted to shaft mounted. To help with deflection and flex at high RPM. The only problem with shaft mount is it can be difficult to get the entire valve train lined up properly. Since you are adjusting it as a whole. Rather than individually/in pairs. Stick with shaft mounted.

I am also curious that it seems to me that in order to run the 1.6 rollers youd have to either have the piston pretty far down in the hole or some pretty large valve reliefs so it sounds like youd have to sacrifice compression? Im guessing that the reason of stepping up to 1.6s would only be to get more lift?

 

[Lustle]

Not sure yet, I have a set of cast irons that were the original plan or I have a couple of sets of the aluminum I am looking at as well, maybe a set of pro=Maxx or Eddys


I am also curious that it seems to me that in order to run the 1.6 rollers youd have to either have the piston pretty far down in the hole or some pretty large valve reliefs so it sounds like youd have to sacrifice compression? Im guessing that the reason of stepping up to 1.6s would only be to get more lift?

Piston to valve clearance only becomes a problem when you are running a lot of lift with a lot of overlap/duration. The piston comes nowhere near the valves in most cams, even high lift ones. The valve is closed long before the piston comes close to TDC. If increasing the rocker ratio to 1.6 decreases your piston to valve distance that much. You have other problems.

 

[AndyF]

Take a look at this article and see if it answers some of your questions: Trying to Find Extra Power Through Rocker-Arm Testing - Hot Rod Network

 

[1930]

Piston to valve clearance only becomes a problem when you are running a lot of lift with a lot of overlap/duration. The piston comes nowhere near the valves in most cams, even high lift ones. The valve is closed long before the piston comes close to TDC. If increasing the rocker ratio to 1.6 decreases your piston to valve distance that much. You have other problems.

Im building a 440 now thats back fresh from machine shop, the pistons are approx .019 in the hole, Im going to be cutting the deck to get within my target compression, I dont know at this point how much has to be removed and I dont want to remove so much as to cause an interference problem.

Take a look at this article and see if it answers some of your questions: Trying to Find Extra Power Through Rocker-Arm Testing - Hot Rod Network

Thanks, Ill check it out

 

[1930]

valve train clearances and problems | Grumpys Performance Garage

 

[Lonewolf3165]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned strength aa a prime benefit of roller rockers. Stamped steel rockets fail! I can't begin to count the number of push rods I have seen that went through a stamped rocker arm. Also deflection in the valve train is greatly reduced with the stronger roller rocker. If the motor isn't ever going to see anything past 5,000 RPM and you're running a mild hydraulic cam you can get away with stamped steel rocker arms. There is definitely less friction with rollers. The problem is that good rockers don't come cheap and cheap rockers don't come good! My daily driver F-150 got a set of roller rockers on it when I did the heads & it never gets raced.

 

[B3RE]

If you like to read, then here's a link for you.

B3 Racing Engines LLC - Mopar Rocker Arm Geometry Tech

The benefit of a roller rocker, is that it maintains its ratio throughout the lift cycle, whatever that ratio might be. The fulcrum length of the rocker is always at the center of the roller axle. A stamped or ductile iron rocker scrubs across the valve tip which effectively changes the contact point between the rocker and valve tip, and consequently changes the fulcrum length. This is why scrub angles are scrutinized so closely on race engines that are required to run a stock type rocker. Rocker geometry is more of a headache to set up on stockers than rollers if you're looking for every last bit of performance. The stockers work fine in the mild applications they are designed for, but things get pretty ugly with large valve lifts. There's a lot of compromise to deal with.

Also, if you go with rollers, get something with a cup style adjuster. You have better pushrod choices, better oiling, and the geometry is better too.

 

[1930]

If you like to read, then here's a link for you.

B3 Racing Engines LLC - Mopar Rocker Arm Geometry Tech

The benefit of a roller rocker, is that it maintains its ratio throughout the lift cycle, whatever that ratio might be. The fulcrum length of the rocker is always at the center of the roller axle. A stamped or ductile iron rocker scrubs across the valve tip which effectively changes the contact point between the rocker and valve tip, and consequently changes the fulcrum length. This is why scrub angles are scrutinized so closely on race engines that are required to run a stock type rocker. Rocker geometry is more of a headache to set up on stockers than rollers if you're looking for every last bit of performance. The stockers work fine in the mild applications they are designed for, but things get pretty ugly with large valve lifts. There's a lot of compromise to deal with.

Also, if you go with rollers, get something with a cup style adjuster. You have better pushrod choices, better oiling, and the geometry is better too.

Thanks what you wrote is very interesting and easy to understand and its appreciated. I will check out the link. Heres what I got, I dont know if they have what you mentioned, Ill have to check them out. For what Im tryin to do though ( which is just try to learn something, have some fun and have some bragging right ) than Im sure they will be fine.

Chances are they are not gonna have what you mentioned and whats done is done.

PRW 3244012 Shaft Rocker Sys PQ STAINLESS, MOPAR 383-440, 1.6 RA | eBay

 

[B3RE]

Call PRW, ask for Shawn, and ask him about setting up Mopar roller rockers for proper geometry. See who he tells you to call. Hint hint.

Those rockers will work very well if set up properly, and in the proper application. You can see photos of them in the tech articles, with and without correct geometry.

 

[Bigdummy]

Call PRW, ask for Shawn, and ask him about setting up Mopar roller rockers for proper geometry. See who he tells you to call. Hint hint.

Those rockers will work very well if set up properly, and in the proper application. You can see photos of them in the tech articles, with and without correct geometry.

I ordered 1.6 and in the box was 1.5
My machine shop uses their stuff and has never had that happen before.

 

[yellow rose]

Call PRW, ask for Shawn, and ask him about setting up Mopar roller rockers for proper geometry. See who he tells you to call. Hint hint.

Those rockers will work very well if set up properly, and in the proper application. You can see photos of them in the tech articles, with and without correct geometry.

I know who Shawn will tell him to call. Same guy I tell people to call. Is that serendipity or coinscidence?