Ron Francis Wiring Kit Help!!

[fbcuda69]

I have a 69 Cuda and I decided to get a Ron Francis Retro Wire Kit. I will give what my experience has been like with this kit and tech support at some other time and another forum. I will just state, in my opinion only, if you are a "novice" to electrical wiring like myself, I would consider other options.

I am hoping I can get some help regarding the ignition switch wires and ballast resistor. On my old wiring harness there are 5 wires going to the ignition switch (bat, st, ign 1, ign 2, acc.). On the wiring kit provided by Ron Francis there are only 4 wires (ign 1, bat, st, acc.) going to the switch. The one that has been left out is the brown Ign. 2 wire which I believe is the bypass wire that led to the left side (start) of ballast resistor. I called tech support and the guy said they only use one wire for ignition and you do not need the second wire.

I should state that I am running the stock orange box 4 pin ECU Mopar unit with the stock black coil and single ballast. To me, if I did what R.F. tech support said, I would not be utilizing the ballast resistor and my coil is one that needs/should have a ballast resistor correct?

If I go by R.F. instructions, my set up would be like this. I would have what they call a diode positive coil wire (orange) running from starter relay ign terminal to the "+" of the coil. I would then have what they call a resistor coil wire (also orange) running from "+" coil to left (start) side of ballast resistor. On the new ECU harness they provide I have a blue (like original blue yellow tracer) that has a female connector, but it also has a orange jump wire that leads to another female connector that has the coil feed wire running from it (also orange). I know the one end of the coil feed wire plugs into the connector at the fuse box. In talking with tech support on this, he said the the connector with double orange wires would not be used because that is for a "dual" ballast resistor. That would leave me with using the connector with the blue wire from ECU harness and the orange jumper that goes into the coil feed. This would the connect to the right (run) side of ballast correct?

Remaining questions: In R.F. setup described is the ballast resistor being used correctly for the coil or do I need to add a Ign. 2 wire myself (like the original) and run it to the left side terminal of ballast (start)? Also, can I get a detail description/clarification on what wires need to go on the ballast resistor and which side they should connect to? I am assuming left side is (start) and right side (drivers side) terminal on ballast is (run).

Sorry for the long post, but it can get very confusing and frustrating when you haven't done it before. Any help that can be provided would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, fbcuda69

I have added the image you requested. The red wire does not get used, the purple wire goes to the negative side of the coil, the grey and brown wires attach to distributor. In the picture you see that the blue wire (which take place of blue yellow tracer) is tied in with the orange jump wire I talked about. This same jump wire is spliced into the same connector as coil feed, which also has a connector on other end to tie into the coil feed fuse block.
According to R.F. I would not use the double orange connector at the ballast because it is meant for a dual set up. So the blue and orange connector line would have to go to the right side (run) of ballast correct? In summary, with the R.F. kit, I would only have a Coil resistor wire (orange) going to left side (start) of ballast coming off of coil "+" and the blue with orange jumper wire that also feeds into coil feed connector on the right side (run)??

I totally agree with you; don't know why they would not have just included the brown ign. 2 wire to make things easier to wire for novices. Hope this helps clarify things a little better. Does it make any more sense to you/anyone or better options?(like putting in a brown Ing. 2 wire myself); this wiring stuff is killing me. By the way, in the instructions they don't mention one thing about putting a Maxifuse (R.F. doesn't like fusible links) in any of the power feed lines. I think I figured that portion out however, thanks to a competitors instructions. Thanks for the reply, hope you/anybody can give me better insight from the picture.

 

[67Dart273]

Can you post a screen shot/ photo of the lash up you were referring to about the ECU harness and the "jump wire" concerning the dual ballast?

So far as the bypass wire from the ignition switch, I don't know why they don't just recommend you run a new wire form ign2 to the coil and be done with it.

A diode WILL work, but diodes CAN fail. If the diode shorts, this will cause the ballast resistor to attempt to engage the start relay (if you have an early one factory grounded) and will deteriorate the spark. So just be aware

I believe I'm correct that Ronnie doesn't seem to like to post destructions online. This is a terrible attitude because it prevents these kinds of questions from being researched

If I was doing this and using a Mopar ECU, I'd download a factory manual which shows it, and wire it exactly as per factory until you have to "morph" it into RF. I certainly would run a separate IGN2 wire

Only reason I see to use other methods concerning the bypass circuit is if you are putting a Mopar engine into another chassis --old Dodge/ Ford PU, Hot rod, etc, and are not using a Mopar switch.

 

[fbcuda69]

I have posted the image you requested and more info. into my original post. Thanks for your reply, hope this helps you/anybody else!

 

[67Dart273]

OK, take either of those single push-on connectors and plug one of 'em into your ballast resistor. I'd cut the other one out for appearance, and replace it with a butt crimp connector

Then run your new "brown" from the ign2 of your ignition switch, and connect it EITHER to the other side of the ballast or coil positive. Also connect the remaining side of your ballast to coil positive.

Alternatively, you could wire it up for a 4 wire ballast. It won't hurt anything, and if you ever get stalled and need an ECU, and happen to "run into" a 5 wire, it will still work.

That is:

A 5 wire ECU MUST use a 4 terminal ballast

A 4 wire ECU CAN use EITHER a 3 or 4 terminal ballast

You cannot tell (some) 4 wire ECU's because many have 5 pins!!! Only way to tell is to use an ohmeter on the 5th pin to see if it's connected to anything.

 

[fbcuda69]

Let me make sure I follow what your saying and if I am setting it up right. I can take a new wire (brown) from my ignition switch to the left side of the ballast (start) resistor. On the same side of ballast resistor terminal, I would connect the orange coil resistor wire supplied by R.F. that runs from the coil "+' to the left side of ballast. On the right (run) side, after taking the connector off the two orange wires and butt crimping, I would be connecting the blue wire from the ECU and the orange coil feed wire that are now fed to one connector, on to the right (run side); assuming I am going to stick with a single ballast, is this correct? In simple terms a brown wire and orange wire would connect to left, start side of ballast and the blue and orange wires now together in a single push on connector to the right (run) side of ballast. Thanks again for your help

 

[ibleedmoparts]

Give it a few as Ron posts on the forum and he can answer your questions

 

[67Dart273]

Let me make sure I follow what your saying and if I am setting it up right. I can take a new wire (brown) from my ignition switch to the left side of the ballast (start) resistor. On the same side of ballast resistor terminal, I would connect the orange coil resistor wire supplied by R.F. that runs from the coil "+' to the left side of ballast. On the right (run) side, after taking the connector off the two orange wires and butt crimping, I would be connecting the blue wire from the ECU and the orange coil feed wire that are now fed to one connector, on to the right (run side); assuming I am going to stick with a single ballast, is this correct? In simple terms a brown wire and orange wire would connect to left, start side of ballast and the blue and orange wires now together in a single push on connector to the right (run) side of ballast. Thanks again for your help

You are confusing me with left/ right and "run" side. Let's call them "coil" side and "ign switch run" side

Coil + and brown bypass connect to "coil side of the ballast."

The other side of the ballast goes to the ign switch "run" voltage, IE traditionally blue AS WELL AS the ECU power. By the way this was NOT originally fused, but it sounds like the Francis kit reroutes it through a fuse

So the connectors Francis provided in a string to the ECU harness ONE of them goes to one side of the ballast, let's call that "ign switch run"

The coil side go to coil + and your brown bypass you will add direct to the switch IGN2 terminal.

ANOTHER thing you'll have to be careful of is alternator hook-up. I don't know whether Francis documents the traditional way Mopar hooks them up. If this kit is set up for a "Chivvy style" alternator it may be set up to run through a resistor, diode, or dash lamp for the alternator excitation --something you do not want

So "traditionally" the "ignition switch run" side of the ballast ALSO FED the blue alternator field wire, the regulator IGN terminal, electric choke if used, and I think on some cars the idle solenoid (440 sixpack) and distributor solenoid.

The Francis kit undoubtedly has lots of fuses, so this would be a great way to make use of additional circuits. That way, if the alternator f's up, you won't lose ignition as well.

 

[fbcuda69]

Got you on the ballast connections and you are correct that the feed wire on the ignition switch run side is fused at the block in the R.F. kit. Also, Mr. Francis does reference both one wire and the traditional mopar externally regulated alternator set up. In regards to the voltage regulator, the harness provided has a black for ground, and a brown alt feed wire that is fused at the block to the regulator, then their is a field wire from regulator to alternator. My question is do I need to run a spliced wire from the field wire on regulator to the ignition run side of the ballast resistor? Or is the brown regulator alternator feed wire that is supplied and fused to the block sufficient?

 

[clhyer]

I just completed a RFW on my Duster. Unfortunately, I went with a pro-comp type of distributor and it done away with all of the ballast and wires that you are working on.
I can say this, though, in the RFW instructions, you are advised to not wire the car as it was, but rather, per the directions in the kit. Therefore, I would advise against putting in a new Ign 2 wire...
C
PS - it was a frustrating job for me too. Take your time with it and you will get through it ok.

 

[fbcuda69]

Thanks for the advice, but I will ask you then on mopar original ign. switches the design was set up that the ign 2 wire was used as a bypass to be used in the start/crank position only. Obviously the ign 1 and acc. was the "hot" run side. In the R.F. design talked about above, it seems the start and run is now on just one wire, which world be on ignition switch run/hot side of ballast. I don't see where adding a brown ign 2 wire would cause a problem with the R.F. kit. If I am wrong, then someone please explain why and any potential problems this would cause. This way, I am utilizing the original mopar ign switch as it was intended to be used. The Ign 2. brown wire runs to coil side of ballast and is utilized for start/crank only and on the other side of the ballast, the ign 1 (hot) is used when switch is in run position. To me that seems more logical and a better system set up then having one ignition wire, like in R.F. kit, do both the start and run functions when key is turned

 

[67Dart273]

Thanks for the advice, but I will ask you then on mopar original ign. switches the design was set up that the ign 2 wire was used as a bypass to be used in the start/crank position only. Obviously the ign 1 and acc. was the "hot" run side. In the R.F. design talked about above, it seems the start and run is now on just one wire, which world be on ignition switch run/hot side of ballast. I don't see where adding a brown ign 2 wire would cause a problem with the R.F. kit. If I am wrong, then someone please explain why and any potential problems this would cause. This way, I am utilizing the original mopar ign switch as it was intended to be used. The Ign 2. brown wire runs to coil side of ballast and is utilized for start/crank only and on the other side of the ballast, the ign 1 (hot) is used when switch is in run position. To me that seems more logical and a better system set up then having one ignition wire, like in R.F. kit, do both the start and run functions when key is turned

I agree and unless you have an ignition system that eliminates the ballast, I cannot see an advantage to wiring it any other way

So far as your alternator feed, there IS a caveat --how do they show you hooking up the regulator "ign" terminal?

This is IMPORTANT because if that wire has ANY voltage drop through the harness, it will "jack up" the charging voltage by that amount.

Example: On the factory wiring, the regulator ign terminal is fed by the same "ignition run" (blue) wire off the ignition switch

The path (originally) was from the battery -- fuse link -- bulkhead -- ammeter circuit -- ignition switch connector -- through the switch -- ignition switch connector -- BACK out through the bulkhead -- to the ballast and regulator

ANY drop in this path generated by poor connections such as the bulkhead, the ignition switch connector, or bad contacts in the switch itself, cause a drop in voltage. The regulator simply say, "HEY, the voltage isn't 14V, it's 13.2. Let's jack up the charging voltage." So it regulates up to it's setpoint (14V example) AT THE TERMINAL OF THE REGULATOR. HOWEVER, due to the harness drop, the actual charging voltage is NOT then 14V at the battery, but rather .8V higher (the difference 14-13.2, example) so the charging voltage is now 14.8

In the case of my 67 before I rewired it, there was a ONE volt drop in the harness, and it was charging at over 15V


I hope I have not confused you by all this--it's VERY easy to check this when you get things wired up.

When you get the car running, check the charging voltage at the battery after the car is warmed up. If it is high, check BOTH the ground side and hot side of the circuit for voltage drop

To do so, get the car running to simulate "low to medium cruise" with all accessories off, and the battery "up and normal."

Take one probe of your meter and stab it directly onto the battery negative post. Take the other and stab it directly onto the regulator case. You are looking for a VERY low reading, the lower the better, and zero volts would be perfect. If the reading is over .2V (two tenths of a volt) that's too much, and you need to improve the ground between the battery, engine block, body, and regulator case

Now check the "hot" side of the circuit the same way. Stick one probe directly onto the battery positive post. Stick the other probe as close as you can get to the regulator IGN terminal. This may be the field (blue) terminal on the alternator.

Once again, you are looking for a very low reading, over .2V is too much

 

[fbcuda69]

You brought up a great question "How do they show you hooking up the regulator ignition terminal?" The short answer is they don't! After I read that question you asked, I looked closely at the image of a voltage regulator they show and it has a one connector harness plugged into it with the three wires coming out of this connector that are routed as I stated above in the earlier post. In this same diagram, where connector plugs into volt reg., they even show the letters I, A, S, and F. The wires from the connector are showing the utilization of the A, S, and F terminals on the voltage regulator ( also ground wire to one of mounting studs), but the "I", is left blank with no wires going to it. By the way, the connector I am talking about has the ability to carry four wires on it, but in the kit only three are being used, so there is an empty slot that can be utilized. I hope you are able to follow this, but the only references are to the field wire, the regulator alternator feed to the fuse box, and a very short jumper wire from alternator field to the "S' terminal on v.r. The only thing I can conclude is that are somehow utilizing the fuse box as a way of hooking up the reg. to the ignition terminal???

Thanks for everything you are doing and I appreciate the tips on checking the circuits, voltage, etc. I will make sure to do this when the time comes.

 

[67Dart273]

IASF are Ford regulator designators. I don't keep track of all the various aftermarket harnesses, but I BELIEVE that Francis would like you to buy "his" regulator which as far as I can tell IS a Ferd regulator.

I see no reason to resort to this kind of stuff.

Look through your booklet, though, and see if there's a reference on Mopar regulators.

Is the manual a pdf? Can you post it so I can download it?

On both the Ford and GM stand-alone regulators, all 4 terminals are needed in a vehicle with a warning lamp. In vehicles with an ammeter, you can wire it different, which is what they are doing in this case

Here's the older GM:

One way to do Ford with no idiot light:

And Ford WITH "idiot light"

Personally, if it were me, I'd take the plug to the Francis regulator and identify switched, fused, 12V and tee them off, run one to one of the field connections, the other to regulator IGN terminal


Run a new wire if you have to, preferably green just like original, from the remaining alternator field terminal back to your Mopar regulator "regulator" terminal. (Assuming you are using the 70/later Mopar isolated field alternator, and stock factory Mopar regulator)

 

[fbcuda69]

From the diagrams you post it sure does look like the harness is set up for a Ford regulator. I should have mentioned I already have a Mopar Blue Box Voltage Regulator(I know it's suppose to be race only, but plenty of mopar owners have run these in street cars) that I can use, instead of having to buy a $30-40 regulator that fits the harness. I know for a fact the voltage regulators R.F. recommends are not designed for the original style regulator that was in the 69 mopars. They make one's just like the originals, except they are solid state rather than points/mech., so I don't know why the wiring harness couldn't have been designed for this set up instead of a Ford type regulator you refer to.
Sorry the manual is not in a pdf format and I believe this is the way R.F. wants to keep it. He has been in the industry for a long time and has built up a solid business for himself. I am in no way speaking for him, but if I ran a business I would be protective of anything that could be utilized in unauthorized ways, thus negatively effecting the company and compromising any competitive advantages the business may have. This is why copyright protection is vital to business, and R.F. Wiring is no different.

Although, I do agree with you that it would be much easier for Mopar guru's like yourself to study the diagrams, instructions, etc. and try an answer questions that have been brought to the forum, like I did.

By the way, I do have an aftermarket Bosch alternator that is rated to 60 amps. This alternator is still set up for bat, field, and ground; there is no second field terminal, like 70 and later square back style alternators. The field and ground wires are not a problem, my question is what R.F. calls the Reg. Alternator Feed wire that runs from the fuse block to the voltage regulator? I know with original volt regulators on the car the ign 1 wire on the ign switch went to the ign side of the v.r. if I decided to use a normal mopar v.r. (blue box) the field wire would go to the field stud, but with the R.F. design, how would I wire the ignition to the ign plug on Mopar v.r.?

 

[67Dart273]

Somehow I missed you have a 69. The wiring RF uses actually should be somewhat similar to the grounded brush design you have, as all GM/ Ford stuff (using his regulator) is a "single ended" (grounded brush) design. Sorry for steering you wrong there

Basically, you want 12V switched and fused in "ignition run" and be sure it is NOT on during "accessory."

I recently "adapted" a Painless kit someone else cut up, and there were other circuits (like door locks, pwr windows) not used by me, and so I adapted them for stuff like this.

Sounds to me like you have the idea. Without a diagram, I'll not be a lot of help.

 

[fbcuda69]

Somehow I missed you have a 69. The wiring RF uses actually should be somewhat similar to the grounded brush design you have, as all GM/ Ford stuff (using his regulator) is a "single ended" (grounded brush) design. Sorry for steering you wrong there

Basically, you want 12V switched and fused in "ignition run" and be sure it is NOT on during "accessory."

I recently "adapted" a Painless kit someone else cut up, and there were other circuits (like door locks, pwr windows) not used by me, and so I adapted them for stuff like this.

Sounds to me like you have the idea. Without a diagram, I'll not be a lot of help.

No problem. I am pretty sure from what I have been reading that the R.F. setup might involve some type of sensing, which would be a good thing (reason for jump wire connected with wire on alt. feed (A) terminal and jumping to sense (S) terminal on v.r. I think I will buy the v.r. that is recommended by R.F. and utilize his plug in harness for the v.r. I have to assume that the 12v switched and fused in the ignition run you state, is what R.F. is calling the regulator alternator feed wire, which is fused at the block and runs to the "A" on the v.r.

You have helped me out tremendously and I appreciate all the time and effort you put in trying to figure things out, without the ability to look at diagrams, instructions, etc.

This is the first time I have posted a question on the forum and it is nice to know people are willing to help you and do it in a timely matter. The overall picture is much clearer for me, 67Dart273, and I owe that to you. I also will be utilizing those tips you gave on testing the circuits/voltage when the time comes.

If I have any more questions in the near future, I will be sure to post them. Thank You!!!

 

[RonFrancis]

Hi,
I'm Ron Francis and I see you seem to be having some issue with your Mopar. Upfront, I need to assure you that we are here to help you with any issue regarding the wiring of the products we produce. Next, I assume you don't understand that while your switch might have 5 wires and we use 4, that doesn’t mean you MUST use the extra wire. Comparing our wires to a factory diagram will certainly confuse anyone. You have to admit, Mopar did not get it right the first time. Allow us to use some updated and proven better connections to wire your car and make a very reliable system.

We build the wiring to make it simple. Sometimes too simple when a customer tries to use a factory diagram to "double check us" Please trust us when we say just do what our instructions say and it will work. The diode is to reduce the number of wires you must use to make a finished product. The less wires the neater the job and the nicer the job. Sure a diode cna burn out but so can a wire. Believe me that our diode will last as long as the wires do or we'll replace it free. The option to use a single or double resistor is so that you have a choice of factory or dealer ignition or the old points systems. Once the car is running and you are satisfied, you may cut the excess wires off and removed them.

To make a clean-common sense product, we often take a "tap" or extra wire from a different location that the factory did. Maybe you have a wire running from the key to the coil. The an extra wire comes off the coil to a separate connections. That second wire can also be "tapped" off the key instead. It may be connected inside our fuse box or somewhere more convenient. We do this for neatness, reliability, cost, and many other reasons including the simplification of the circuit so that we can troubleshoot it quicker for you. REMEMBER Ron Francis wiring comes with LIFETIME help with the wiring. That includes a second owner. For this reason, we need to be prepared to troubleshoot something from 30 years ago which we still do as a service to customer back when we started in 1974.rotest:

If you have a problem, call us. If you still have a problem, call us again. Or email me directly and I'll get you straightened out. Just because "a friend" did it differently and it worked does not mean we are incorrect. We've been doing this a long time and know how to make your mopar a reliable machine. [email protected] is my address if you need to reply. I do not read the many blogs on a daily basis looking to help customers. You may contact me anytime.

Hope this doesn't sound too harsh but, we are here to help.
Ron Francis

I have a 69 Cuda and I decided to get a Ron Francis Retro Wire Kit. I will give what my experience has been like with this kit and tech support at some other time and another forum. I will just state, in my opinion only, if you are a "novice" to electrical wiring like myself, I would consider other options.

I am hoping I can get some help regarding the ignition switch wires and ballast resistor. On my old wiring harness there are 5 wires going to the ignition switch (bat, st, ign 1, ign 2, acc.). On the wiring kit provided by Ron Francis there are only 4 wires (ign 1, bat, st, acc.) going to the switch. The one that has been left out is the brown Ign. 2 wire which I believe is the bypass wire that led to the left side (start) of ballast resistor. I called tech support and the guy said they only use one wire for ignition and you do not need the second wire.

I should state that I am running the stock orange box 4 pin ECU Mopar unit with the stock black coil and single ballast. To me, if I did what R.F. tech support said, I would not be utilizing the ballast resistor and my coil is one that needs/should have a ballast resistor correct?

If I go by R.F. instructions, my set up would be like this. I would have what they call a diode positive coil wire (orange) running from starter relay ign terminal to the "+" of the coil. I would then have what they call a resistor coil wire (also orange) running from "+" coil to left (start) side of ballast resistor. On the new ECU harness they provide I have a blue (like original blue yellow tracer) that has a female connector, but it also has a orange jump wire that leads to another female connector that has the coil feed wire running from it (also orange). I know the one end of the coil feed wire plugs into the connector at the fuse box. In talking with tech support on this, he said the the connector with double orange wires would not be used because that is for a "dual" ballast resistor. That would leave me with using the connector with the blue wire from ECU harness and the orange jumper that goes into the coil feed. This would the connect to the right (run) side of ballast correct?

Remaining questions: In R.F. setup described is the ballast resistor being used correctly for the coil or do I need to add a Ign. 2 wire myself (like the original) and run it to the left side terminal of ballast (start)? Also, can I get a detail description/clarification on what wires need to go on the ballast resistor and which side they should connect to? I am assuming left side is (start) and right side (drivers side) terminal on ballast is (run).

Sorry for the long post, but it can get very confusing and frustrating when you haven't done it before. Any help that can be provided would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, fbcuda69

I have added the image you requested. The red wire does not get used, the purple wire goes to the negative side of the coil, the grey and brown wires attach to distributor. In the picture you see that the blue wire (which take place of blue yellow tracer) is tied in with the orange jump wire I talked about. This same jump wire is spliced into the same connector as coil feed, which also has a connector on other end to tie into the coil feed fuse block.
According to R.F. I would not use the double orange connector at the ballast because it is meant for a dual set up. So the blue and orange connector line would have to go to the right side (run) of ballast correct? In summary, with the R.F. kit, I would only have a Coil resistor wire (orange) going to left side (start) of ballast coming off of coil "+" and the blue with orange jumper wire that also feeds into coil feed connector on the right side (run)??

I totally agree with you; don't know why they would not have just included the brown ign. 2 wire to make things easier to wire for novices. Hope this helps clarify things a little better. Does it make any more sense to you/anyone or better options?(like putting in a brown Ing. 2 wire myself); this wiring stuff is killing me. By the way, in the instructions they don't mention one thing about putting a Maxifuse (R.F. doesn't like fusible links) in any of the power feed lines. I think I figured that portion out however, thanks to a competitors instructions. Thanks for the reply, hope you/anybody can give me better insight from the picture.

 

[cuda guy]

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Im doing a 1972 Demon