Rookie Mistake...

-
The problem is they take on work when they are behind with other work that has already been paid for, then a new sucker comes in with cash and your project gets put on the back burner. I guarantee there are others with your same problem no matter how many projects they have coming in. I have seen over 50 projects come and go in the last 13 years mine has been sitting. He has an off-site storage place where my car sits, I haven't even seen it in 6 years though some of the parts are still sitting around his shop...
 
I can't go that route ...I worry about someone dying and me not getting my s***
 
What is the matter with these guys? Imagine having a client with money willing to pay for work? Seems easy enough.

Sorry to hear of the hassle. I agree with the masses....Get your car and your stuff. If this guy starts blowing sunshine, and sells you on it????

In the big scheme of things, 4 grand is just an expensive lesson. Good Luck.
Ponzi ... My money is long gone... Spent on other projects I'm sure... Now when he has to stop and work on my car he's losing money if that makes sense
 
The problem is they take on work when they are behind with other work that has already been paid for, then a new sucker comes in with cash and your project gets put on the back burner. I guarantee there are others with your same problem no matter how many projects they have coming in. I have seen over 50 projects come and go in the last 13 years mine has been sitting. He has an off-site storage place where my car sits, I haven't even seen it in 6 years though some of the parts are still sitting around his shop...
Exactly
 
Ponzi ... My money is long gone... Spent on other projects I'm sure... Now when he has to stop and work on my car he's losing money if that makes sense
I think you nailed it. Get your car and stuff back and go from there. Don't let him sweet talk you with promises of grandeur.
 
Just some random thoughts...

Do you have any of the info you have presented here in writing signed by both of you? As in a contract?

If you pick up your car now then you will be better off. I agree do not give him a heads up just show up with trailer and a couple helpers.

IF you have a contract and IF in the contract you have a complete by date and that date has passed, you might be able to small claims court him to refund the value of the work not completed.

But...

What ever you do get the car.

If he goes belly up and the car is on the property it will be hell to get your property back.

If he rents the property the owner might have the rights to all property left behind, then you have to prove you own the property
 
Just some random thoughts...

Do you have any of the info you have presented here in writing signed by both of you? As in a contract?

If you pick up your car now then you will be better off. I agree do not give him a heads up just show up with trailer and a couple helpers.

IF you have a contract and IF in the contract you have a complete by date and that date has passed, you might be able to small claims court him to refund the value of the work not completed.

But...

What ever you do get the car.

If he goes belly up and the car is on the property it will be hell to get your property back.

If he rents the property the owner might have the rights to all property left behind, then you have to prove you own the property
No written contract or completion date. He does lease the building unfortunately. As far as proving ownership , have the NC title in my name and the only set of original keys the car. I made sure to itemize the fender tag and VIN tag in the complaint to the NC DOJ/AG since he removed them for media blasting and put them in his safe.
 
He's putting on a good front. I'll know if he hasn't done anything.

Also:
The last 5-6 times I checked in, the same tape and paper has been in the two same spots every ******* time.

Also:
His old partner that was there when the car arrived messaged me through Linkedin and told me I should go get my car.

Also:
He quit a few months back because Joey lies and bullshits people when he doesn't make deadlines. He had a side business out of the shop with his GF, now ex-GF, rebting enclosed trailers and she wound up breaking up with him and taking him to court over it because it was her $$$ and her name on the business.

Listen to the guy who knows and do as he says. Your car's not going to get done. It's not going to get started or finished. It's not going to get worked on any more now than it has been in the past. More parts are going to go missing. Listen to his ex-partner and go get your car now while it's still there to go get; the guy who's been stringing you along is still there to open the door and go get the fender tag and stuff out the safe, and there's no IRS lockout on the property.

I made your same mistakes in 1999: an open-ended, vague agreement with no concrete progress/payment milestones. There was a work order form, but no details on it, just verbal discussion of what-all was to be done (giant mistake, never do this). Guy was a well-known expert in the particular kind of car. Owned 'em, built 'em, drove 'em, raced 'em for decades. I'd known him for years and considered him a friend (more mistakes there: thought he was a friend, and mixed friendship and business without putting in guardrails to protect one or both).

Parts went missing and got damaged. Car got hit by dude's drunk-driving bum of a son. Dude got in dumb quarrels and pissed off subcontractors, who in turn had negative-interest in working on any cars dude brought them, including mine (or they'd do the work grudgingly and resentfully—not conducive to good or timely work). None of those fights were dude's fault…just ask him; he was the only sane one, and everyone else was a jerk/a cheat/a liar/incompetent/etc. He had an endless stream of rilly good excuses and reasons why more stuff needed doing, more parts needed buying, more time needed giving, and more money needed sending.

I kept on throwing good money after bad—like you, I was aware in general terms of the large and growing investment I'd put into the car, and I didn't want to admit what I didn't want to admit. I still have no idea how much money I set on fire in the name of that car build, and I never will, and that's for the best; I would very probably have a massive heart attack.

Finally in 2006—seven years, for those keeping score at home—I went and repossessed the car and pile of parts. It was ugly; he demanded money (I'd deliberately left my wallet hundreds of miles away, and had only a carefully-limited stash of 'pacifier-cash' made highly unappetizing by carrying it underneath my foot inside my boot). He made credible threats, withheld parts I'd bought and paid for, etc. But I'd brought along a friend dude also knew and wasn't pissed off at (at the moment), so it was 2 against 1. That car never did get built. I sold it to the friend who'd helped me repossess it, and he might build it one day after he retires.

Go get your car back before it's too late.

(Oh yeah: dude wasn't a pencil-neck geek with a Vintage Car Restoration degree; he was a grizzled ol' US Army veteran.)
 
Last edited:
Also:


Also:


Also:


Dude. Listen to the guy who knows and do as he says. Your car's not going to get done. It's not going to get started or finished. It's not going to get worked on any more now than it has been in the past. More parts are going to go missing. Listen to his ex-partner and go get your car now while it's still there to go get; the guy who's been stringing you along is still there to open the door, and there's no IRS lockout on the property.

I made your same mistake in 1999: an open-ended, vague agreement with no concrete progress/payment milestones. There was a work order form, but no details on it, just verbal discussion of what-all was to be done (giant mistake, never do this). Guy was a well-known expert in the particular kind of car. Owned 'em, built 'em, drove 'em, raced 'em for decades. I'd known him for years and considered him a friend (more mistakes there: thought he was a friend, and mixed friendship and business without putting in guardrails to protect one or both).

Parts went missing and got damaged. Car got hit by dude's drunk-driving bum of a son. Dude got in dumb quarrels and pissed off subcontractors, who in turn had negative-interest in working on any cars dude brought them, including mine (or they'd do the work grudgingly and resentfully—not conducive to good or timely work). None of those fights were dude's fault…just ask him; he was the only sane one, and everyone else was a jerk/a cheat/a liar/incompetent/etc. He had an endless stream of rilly good excuses and reasons why more stuff needed doing, more parts needed buying, more time needed giving, and more money needed sending.

I kept on throwing good money after bad—like you, I was aware of the large and growing investment I'd put into the car, and I didn't want to admit what I didn't want to admit). I still have no idea how much money I set on fire in the name of that car build, and I never will, and that's for the best; I would very probably have a massive heart attack.

Finally in 2006 (seven years, for those keeping score at home) I went and repossessed the car and pile of parts. It was ugly; he made credible threats, witheld parts I'd bought and paid for, etc, but I'd brought along a friend dude also knew and wasn't pissed off at (at the moment), so 2-against-1. That car never did get built. I sold it to the friend who'd helped me repossess it, and he might build it one day after he retires.

Go get your car back before it's too late.
I am, after he gets served the complaint from the NC DOJ. It is now on the public record with the state of NC that for the last 20 months he's had $10k of my money and my car at his facility and is not working on it.
 
Wow, what a shame. Very sorry to hear that you are having to go through this bullshit. Richard Clark in NC would have done you good too. I hope it all works out for you.

Good luck, Bill
 
Wow, what a shame. Very sorry to hear that you are having to go through this bullshit. Richard Clark in NC would have done you good too. I hope it all works out for you.

Good luck, Bill
I've been in contact with him about the situation. If I do go that route after I get my car out of the current "shop", I may have to wait 18 months before he can get to it but at least I know a bonafide Mopar guru will do it right and it will get done.
 
I've been in contact with him about the situation. If I do go that route after I get my car out of the current "shop", I may have to wait 18 months before he can get to it but at least I know a bonafide Mopar guru will do it right and it will get done.
Well good luck with it man. Keep us posted. We're pullin for you.
 
Bad drugs, often.
Personality defects, often.
Bad life choices for years, often.
Addled brains from working around noxious chemicals, often.
You don't know how right you are. When I last dropped in on 12/14/23 he and his new employee both were talking about how much Adderall they used to take. Let the cat out of the bag. That's why I went ahead and filed the complaint today. They're not serious people. It's not a body shop. It's daycare for pill heads masquerading as auto restorers.
 
I am, after he gets served the complaint from the NC DOJ. It is now on the public record with the state of NC that for the last 20 months he's had $10k of my money and my car at his facility and is not working on it.
I would strongly suggest you get your car ASAP

But hey, your call
 
I made sure to itemize the fender tag and VIN tag in the complaint to the NC DOJ/AG since he removed them for media blasting and put them in his safe.
Unless you are really nice to him you will never see them again.

And then all you have is a Dart that will not be worth much.

He totally has the upper hand in this deal.

I would not mention sueing him or threatening him with anything, just go get your car be super nice and get the tags, just tell him you have decided to go in another direction.

Then after you have your car, all parts and the vin and fender tags then you can try to get some of your money back.

Verbal agreements unless witnessed by neutral 3rd parties are meaningless and with the witnesses only slightly less meaningless.

I'm so sorry for your problem.

Thank you for opening yourself.

It is a good learning for all of us.


  1. Never give a VIN or Fender tag to anyone, keep them at home in a safe place
  2. Always get EVERYTHING in writing
  3. Never pay large sums up front
  4. Always pay as work is completed
  5. Have a written completion date and penalities for missing deadlines
  6. If the shop etc will not accept the terms move on.
 
Unless you are really nice to him you will never see them again.

And then all you have is a Dart that will not be worth much.

He totally has the upper hand in this deal.

I would not mention sueing him or threatening him with anything, just go get your car be super nice and get the tags, just tell him you have decided to go in another direction.

Then after you have your car, all parts and the vin and fender tags then you can try to get some of your money back.

Verbal agreements unless witnessed by neutral 3rd parties are meaningless and with the witnesses only slightly less meaningless.

I'm so sorry for your problem.

Thank you for opening yourself.

It is a good learning for all of us.


  1. Never give a VIN or Fender tag to anyone, keep them at home in a safe place
  2. Always get EVERYTHING in writing
  3. Never pay large sums up front
  4. Always pay as work is completed
  5. Have a written completion date and penalities for missing deadlines
  6. If the shop etc will not accept the terms move on.
He removed them. I didn't exactly give them up willingly but I know what you're saying. Even if I kept the fender tag and VIN at home, he could still say the car was stolen in a break-in and all I'd have is the two tags. I will go get them and the car. I have the title and every text message and email from the time he looked at my car in May/June of 2021 and pictures of the fender tag and vin still on the car when delivered and well as pictures of the radiator support and rear quarter stampings that match the fender tag.
 
Last edited:
Wow - what a sad story on Christmas day! I applaud you for sharing this and trying to help others.

Others have already said the best advice to fetch the car and you have agreed. I sure hope it happens soon and you get back what is rightfully yours.

The world is full of scumbags and you found one. I found one too - but it was on building my house, not my car! So lots of $$'s involved for sure. Guy had been in business for 40 years and had a great reputation. HAD is the key word there. So don't think you are alone or did anything stupid in finding a dirt bag.

When I had my 71 Demon body/paint done, I was fortunate to find a great shop who not only did outstanding work, but did it when they said they would. And encouraged me to drop by anytime to see it in process. I got a bill every 1-2 months for work completed and paid them promptly. An overall very positive experience although I did end up spending way more than planned (I'll bet others can relate). But in the end, I got a superior job done and remain excellent friends with many of the employees and owner.

I sure hope all this works out for you soon and in your favor!
 
Wow - what a sad story on Christmas day! I applaud you for sharing this and trying to help others.

Others have already said the best advice to fetch the car and you have agreed. I sure hope it happens soon and you get back what is rightfully yours.

The world is full of scumbags and you found one. I found one too - but it was on building my house, not my car! So lots of $$'s involved for sure. Guy had been in business for 40 years and had a great reputation. HAD is the key word there. So don't think you are alone or did anything stupid in finding a dirt bag.

When I had my 71 Demon body/paint done, I was fortunate to find a great shop who not only did outstanding work, but did it when they said they would. And encouraged me to drop by anytime to see it in process. I got a bill every 1-2 months for work completed and paid them promptly. An overall very positive experience although I did end up spending way more than planned (I'll bet others can relate). But in the end, I got a superior job done and remain excellent friends with many of the employees and owner.

I sure hope all this works out for you soon and in your favor!
I think it will all work out. He's not an evil young fella. I don't see him losing or stealing the tags or messing up the car he just needs a realty check and The State of NC DOJ will hopefully get his attention and let him know I'm serious...
 
He removed them. I didn't exactly give them up willingly but I know what you're saying
No I'm sorry, I did not mean to scold you in any way. You did what you did in good faith. And it sucks that people are scumbags some times.

I was just outlining what we all should do in the future so not to get into the same situation as you.
 
No I'm sorry, I did not mean to scold you in any way. You did what you did in good faith. And it sucks that people are scumbags some times.

I was just outlining what we all should do in the future so not to get into the same situation as you.
You're good man. I follow you 100% and honestly I could probably use a scolding over this. I should have known better but the guy seemed legit and came referred from people I trust. They didn't know he worked like this and only saw his paint work and listened to his self congratulatory words. I shouldn't have let it go on this long. I don't really think he will do anything truly criminal but he will butt hurt and that's fine. If it hurts his feeling or bruises his ego, he needed to hear it.
He's young and has no work ethic or organization skills. I just printed up every email we exchanged since before he came and looked at my car to give me an estimate. I'll work on getting the text chain printed. It goes back to the day before he looked at my car and has every false promise and exaggerated statement in full. He wasn't supposed to bring his Dad's 70 RAIII Trans Am down until my car was "done". I have that. His dad's car has been there a year and has had more hours spent on it than mine.
 
-
Back
Top