Round column mill for head work

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Cuda416

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I have an older Jet (Rong Fu) round column mill and I'm wondering if anyone here has used one for doing work on cylinder heads? I'm thinking specifically about things that would operate off of a pilot, so seats work, guide work etc. Not surfacing as I'm guessing here is too much error in the bed ways for that from end to end.

Anyway, looking for ideas etc.
 
Got a picture of the mill? I’m playing with setting up my Lagun vertical for guide and seat work.
 
Got a picture of the mill? I’m playing with setting up my Lagun vertical for guide and seat work

Yeah it looks like this

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If yours is as pictured, it definitely not surface heads as you need 26 inches minimum of table travel. I know this is not what you want it for.

As far as seat and guide work, finding a fixture or making a fixture to tilt the head 18 degrees is the biggest hurdle and then your still need 17-18 inches of table travel.
 
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I was actually considering buying this, but I don’t have any time for another project and shipping this machine to Wisconsin from Washington would add alot to the price.

You can see how big the fixture is for holding the head.
 
Table travel isn't the issue and i can make something that will hold the heads.
 
View attachment 1716338541View attachment 1716338543


I was actually considering buying this, but I don’t have any time for another project and shipping this machine to Wisconsin from Washington would add alot to the price.

You can see how big the fixture is for holding the head.
Yeah they are nice machines but i won't be doing this full time or enough to justify the expense unless i get a ridiculous deal.
 
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This is a cutter for a Bridgeport type mill used for surfacing heads. It’s at least 8 inches in diameter on the big end. I would say with a 1/2 hp motor, I would guess the biggest depth of cut one could take per pass is .025.
 
Yeah they are nice machines but i won't be doing this full time or enough to justify the expense unless i get a ridiculous deal.
That is a ridiculous deal. It’s too much work at this time for me. That’s a 20-30k machine tool in working condition.
 
Should be able to pick up a used drill press style S/G machine in working order for $3-4k. I bought mine from a machinery dealer with lots of tooling and pilots for $6500. It was a 1 owner crème puff and he delivered it for that price.
 
There are times I would rather have a mill than a S/G machine for seat work. There’s a few YouTube videos on rollover fixtures for a mill. If the head is rigid enough just use your mill. The S/G machine has a floating table. No way to put it exactly where you want it or make accurate XY movements.
 
You'd probably be better off build your own mill then that, it's basically a drill press.
There's a ton of Diy Mill, Lathe, even Cnc one's youtube video's out there.

Lol, well yeah it's not a Bridgeport but it's way more capable than a simple drill press. I'm only interested in using it for seat work which can be done by hand so rigidity isn't the limiting factor.

I've been trying to re-locate the pic PBR posted showing what looked like the same or similar mill as I have in his ship he used for doing seats etc. As I recall it was in a thread you started back in 2020 or thereabouts.
 
The biggest problem I see with a round column machine other than the low mass and limited table travel is the limited Z-travel in the spindle and column. The table travel can be overcome by repositioning the head on a fixture, a PITA but doable. But the spindle travel becomes a real issue because you usually have at least a couple inches of travel over the arbor for a lot that guided tooling. That eats up your spindle Z very quickly and when you go to raise/lower the head on the column, you lose your x-y center. Unless they have been modified with a guide rib on the column, most round columns lose control of x-y when moved in z. So keep that in mind for any machine you want to do head work with. Z-axis is usually where the limitation manifests itself. Even on a Bridgeport type machine it can be an issue with some of the tooling. You ever use one of those coax indicators to center over a hole and then go to an endmill in the spindle collet? The two tools are about six inches different in length and the the spindle gets used up and you have to raise/lower the bed every time you switch tools. At minimum it's a compromise and for a lot of machines you can't get there from here.

I'm pretty familiar with the issue when using my Index Model 40 mill to repair BMW oil pans, a little side hustle I've had for a while. Requires several drilling, boring, threading, milling operations and when you switch from the boring head to a chamfer tool in a chuck, to a tap, you are looking at 4-5" difference in tool length and I only get about 3" spindle travel so I'm winding the table up and down quite a bit. I'm in process of making dedicated tooling so I can get away from the boring head and drill chuck, but it's well down the list of to-do's.
 
The biggest problem I see with a round column machine other than the low mass and limited table travel is the limited Z-travel in the spindle and column. The table travel can be overcome by repositioning the head on a fixture, a PITA but doable. But the spindle travel becomes a real issue because you usually have at least a couple inches of travel over the arbor for a lot that guided tooling. That eats up your spindle Z very quickly and when you go to raise/lower the head on the column, you lose your x-y center. Unless they have been modified with a guide rib on the column, most round columns lose control of x-y when moved in z. So keep that in mind for any machine you want to do head work with. Z-axis is usually where the limitation manifests itself. Even on a Bridgeport type machine it can be an issue with some of the tooling. You ever use one of those coax indicators to center over a hole and then go to an endmill in the spindle collet? The two tools are about six inches different in length and the the spindle gets used up and you have to raise/lower the bed every time you switch tools. At minimum it's a compromise and for a lot of machines you can't get there from here.

I'm pretty familiar with the issue when using my Index Model 40 mill to repair BMW oil pans, a little side hustle I've had for a while. Requires several drilling, boring, threading, milling operations and when you switch from the boring head to a chamfer tool in a chuck, to a tap, you are looking at 4-5" difference in tool length and I only get about 3" spindle travel so I'm winding the table up and down quite a bit. I'm in process of making dedicated tooling so I can get away from the boring head and drill chuck, but it's well down the list of to-do's.

Yeah the Z issue is real. best solution I've seen (low buck) is to mount a laser pointer on the head pointing to the side. Put a mark on the wall where it hits. Every time you adjust Z, rotate the head until the dot lines up on the wall. The greater the distance, the more accurate it is.

Thanks for the input, all views are appreciated.
 
Yeah the Z issue is real. best solution I've seen (low buck) is to mount a laser pointer on the head pointing to the side. Put a mark on the wall where it hits. Every time you adjust Z, rotate the head until the dot lines up on the wall. The greater the distance, the more accurate it is.
That's a neat trick with the laser that would come in handy in other applications too. Noted for future use...
 
I've been trying to re-locate the pic PBR posted showing what looked like the same or similar mill as I have in his ship he used for doing seats etc. As I recall it was in a thread you started back in 2020 or thereabouts.

I’m pretty sure he bought an older guide and seat machine, like one of the smaller Winonas.
Prior to that I believe he was using Neway cutters for freshening seats, and things like machining seats for larger valves were outsourced locally.
 
I’m pretty sure he bought an older guide and seat machine, like one of the smaller Winonas.
Prior to that I believe he was using Neway cutters for freshening seats, and things like machining seats for larger valves were outsourced locally.

Yeah that's why I was searching for the picture. I saw it briefly and wanted to look again.
 
PBR left an indelible legacy on FABO. Into the unknown where he ventured, he left bread crumbs for everyone to follow and shared alot of his discoveries and secrets along the way.
 
PBR left an indelible legacy on FABO. Into the unknown where he ventured, he left bread crumbs for everyone to follow and shared alot of his discoveries and secrets along the way.

Couldn't have said it any better.

He was also great about encouraging people to think outside the box and ignore the naysayers.
 
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