SB Crane Retrofit Roller Lifter Issue

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340sFastback

340sFastback

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Working with a '71 340 block. Put new .550 lift Crane Hydraulic Retrofit Roller Lifter cam in and installed new Crane roller lifters. When spinning the cam around three lifters on the driver's side of the block look like they come too far up and expose a small portion of the lifter oil groove. This has me worried that oil will hemorrhage out and cause oil pressure issues. The oil groove is exposed just a hair, maybe .001"-.003".

What is the solution here? Different lifters, smaller lift cam? I bought the cam and lifters from Summit recently so they can be returned if need be.

RollerLifterIssue.jpg
 
Well, I dont use them. So i can't tell you if it's common. But, the lifter will defiantely be collapsed at max lift by the valve spring pressure if that groove or hole is exposed at all during the lift cycle. IMO, I would go with a smaller cam and 1.6 rockers if you need to get the lift and duration back.
 
Yikes! Call Crane and tell them what's going on. Is this the part number you used: 69532-16?
 
ramcharger said:
Yikes! Call Crane and tell them what's going on. Is this the part number you used: 69532-16?
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Yes, those are the lifters I used. The cam is part number is 669641. There was a guy over on moparts who put this exact same cam and lifters in a '73 340 block and had bad oil pressure. His oil pressure was fine when he was running a flat tappet and the cam/lifters was the only change he made. He also said his valve train was noisy. Most likely same issue but unfortunately he didn't look it over during assembly. He called Crane and they told him they didn't know of any problems?

I am told a cam with a slightly smaller base circle will correct the problem.
 
340sFastback said:
Yes, those are the lifters I used. The cam is part number is 669641. There was a guy over on moparts who put this exact same cam and lifters in a '73 340 block and had bad oil pressure. His oil pressure was fine when he was running a flat tappet and the cam/lifters was the only change he made. He also said his valve train was noisy. Most likely same issue but unfortunately he didn't look it over during assembly. He called Crane and they told him they didn't know of any problems?

I am told a cam with a slightly smaller base circle will correct the problem.
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Yes, it most certainly would. In your case I would like to see that oil groove .020" or deeper in the lifter bore. I'd send Crane a pic too and ask them what the heck is up. That's just wrong. Maybe comps retro fit rollers would fit right?

It's hard to tell if this is a cam or lifter problem.
 
It could be a lifter boss issue. Factory castings are not all alike and Crane probably had a taller /higher amount of metal.
 
rumblefish360 said:
It could be a lifter boss issue. Factory castings are not all alike and Crane probably had a taller /higher amount of metal.
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Since it only happens on three of the lifters and only on one side of the block it might be the block is cast a little off. But since another guy using the exact same Crane set up had oil pressure problems I think Crane is making the base circle too big and not aware of the problem. I am going to keep the lifters and get a custom ground cam with a slightly smaller base circle to pull the lifters down slightly. I believe that will fix the problem.
 
I went ahead and ordered a custom ground cam that is suppose to have a smaller base circle. I am told this will correct the problem.
 
OUI! This must be aggggony and maddening to say the least. However, I think that the talk/call to them went well? NO?
 
If you goto your mopar small block book it will tell you what needs to be done to correct this problem.lol Kevin.
 
Kevin D. said:
If you goto your mopar small block book it will tell you what needs to be done to correct this problem.lol Kevin.
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Kevin, I don't have my book with me and my curiosity is peaked now that you've brought this to our attention. Do you remember what the book says about the fix is for this issue?
 
340sFastback said:
I went ahead and ordered a custom ground cam that is suppose to have a smaller base circle. I am told this will correct the problem.
Click to expand...

So what cam did you order and from where? I have this same setup in a build I am working on attm. I am not sure if the problem exists or not with mine but will check it tomorrow.

Also, won't changing the base circle possible change your pushrod length and possibly rocker to valve tip alignment? Maybe not an issue if you have adjustables but worht checking.
 
blufie said:
So what cam did you order and from where? I have this same setup in a build I am working on attm. I am not sure if the problem exists or not with mine but will check it tomorrow.

Also, won't changing the base circle possible change your pushrod length and possibly rocker to valve tip alignment? Maybe not an issue if you have adjustables but worht checking.
Click to expand...

I ordered a custom ground cam from Brian at:

http://www.immengines.com/

He was very knowledgeable and very helpful. He has done a lot of work with retrofit roller cams in classic mopar blocks. Cam was at my door in two days but I have not tried it yet because block had to go back to the shop. The cam was over $100 cheaper then the Crane but I have to run a bronze distributor gear where as with the Crane I didn't.

Yes, push rods might have to be longer but I needed to order new ones anyway because its an all new build. I am running Eddie heads with shaft mount rockers so it has no effect on rocker to valve tip because the shaft is in a fixed location.

I returned the Crane cam to Summit and they gave me a full refund.
 
Summitt has allways done good by me on returningparts. They even took back a Mopar orange box that would only start the car once and then you needed to disconnect it and reconnect it in order to atempt to start the car.
 
Summit is great! They are like Walmart, they take anything back and give a full refund no questions asked. My credit card has already had the credited. Bye bye messed up cam!!
 
Well I checked my lifters and all appear to be staying in the hole by at least .020 so maybe I caught a break.

Glad to ahve a souce for a cam if need be though. Let us know how the grind works out.
 
I finally got my block back and put the cam in for a test fit. The #3 exhaust lifter only covers the oil groove may .003"-.004" which does not seem ideal. The rest of the lifters have their oil grooves well covered, especially the right side where the main oil gallery resides. I did try switching the lifters around to see if that would make a difference and it didn't. What do you think?
 
Somethings fishy...The new small base circle should have dropped them a bit more than .010", or at least i would have thought. If the groove is covered at max lift I wouldnt sweat it. but it seems odd that you didnt get more "breathing room".
 
I talked to Brian who sold me the cam and he said covered is covered and it should be OK. I also called the shop who did my block and talked to the owner and he also said it should be OK.

The lifter bores are machined at the factory with a bevel at the top I assume to facilitate assembly. This one lifter bore's bevel seems to be machined just a little deeper then the others hence the thin coverage. The coverage also seems the thinnest around the top 25% of the bore and the other 75% has more coverage. Funny thing is its an exhaust lifter and this cam has less lift on the exhaust then on intake. But the intake lifter right next to it sits down in the hole just fine probably due to the difference in the machined bevel.

ALL the lifters on the passenger's side of the engine are nice and deep in their bores. Wish they were all like that but people who know more then me say it should work so it looks like I'll be running it.
 
If you go to Hughesengines.com they have a story about lifter bores being chamfered. Some are machined more than others and this might be the cause of the problem. They have no idea why this is. I've had my shortblock built already and I checked my block and sure enough, some bores are chamfered more than others so I might have to go to a solid roller. Another option is having the lifter bores bushed. Hope this helps
 
I saw this over on the Hughes site:

Before purchasing the HUG5008 retro-fit lifters, be sure to check the lifter bores in your block. The photo above shows an unmolested 360 small block. As pointed out by the arrows, some of the lifter bores are chamfered, or counter-bored. We do not know why Mother Mopar chose to do this. As you can see they are randomly bored to differing depths. The problem with this is that when you want to retrofit your block to a hydraulic roller cam the lifters that you need to use (HUG5008) may come up high enough that the oil groove around the outer perimeter of lifter becomes exposed into this chamfer. This is not acceptable. If your block has these chamfers, either find another block or give us a call.

Here is the link:

http://www.hughesengines.com/partDetail.asp?partID=11270

The picture they have over there does not look like mine but the problem is the same: sloppy and inconsistent machining when the block was manufactured.
 
Just to put some closure on this issue I called Brian to ask about a smaller base circle cam and he says its as small as I can go. Next question was lifters; would another brand lifter make a difference. I called Crane and they told me the distance between the bottom of the wheel and the top oil groove is 1.427". I called Brian back and he is going to see if he can get a lifter with a lower top oil groove.

Most believe that what I currently have would likely work. But before ordering custom push rods and assembling the engine I think its best to see if a different lifter might improve the lifter bore to lifter oil groove relationship.
 
Personally, I would do whatever you have to to get comfortable with the situation. Last thing you need is something in the back of your mind telling you the lifter situation is going to cause a problem every time you fire it up.

I'd trust Brian on his advice, your mind needs to be satisfied.
 
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