SB Timing Covers Info

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BillGrissom

BillGrissom

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Timing Cover Info for LA engines. Hope this helps someone.

I understood there were only 2 designs for LA engines (64-71 and 72+), but have run across 4 versions recently. Of course, Magnum engines have still another design w/ reverse rotation water pump (for Serpentine belt). I think either of the 2 water pumps (iron or alum) will fit on any of the 4 below (are there more water pumps?).

Photos:
'65 w/o timing tab (red)
'69 w/ integral timing tab on passenger side (water pump attached)
'72+ w/ integal timing tab on driver's side (shiny)
'76 w/o timing tab (yellow rust)

Details:

1965:
Original on my Dart GT 273 2-barrel
PN: D - 2128896-7 (note: "D" = ?)
Date Wheel (assume) w/ "65" in center & 12 month segments (assume) w/ 2 or 3 raised dots in some (meaning?).

1969:
Recent e-bay (can't find now). Never heard of a passenger's side integral tab before. Argue w/ the photo not me. The fuel pump location proves the photo wasn't reversed.

1972:
Purchased to replace my pitted 65 one. This is the most commonly seen, especially new. I think one can replace the crank seal from the front.

1976:
Installed on an extra 65 273 engine I bought recently. The original one probably corroded like mine.
PN 2128896 0914 12 "MADE IN CANADA", pentastar, date wheel with "76" in center. A separate metal timing tab was installed on passenger's side like mine. BTW, engine was rust-siezed. I pulled a piston out the bottom today and it is a raised Hi-Po w/ valve reliefs which matches local seller's statement that he removed a 4-hole iron intake and engine was special.

Note the '65 cover has an extra hole. Both 65 blocks have a tapped hole there. I filled mine w/ a setscrew and RTV. The other block had a sawed-off screw plugging it. I never read about this extra hole.

Note: most tapped holes in the block pass into either the water jacket or inside the engine (oil), so apply a good sealant to bolt threads. Ditto if replacing just the water pump.

I apologize if this info is redundant. I can't seem to search FABO well. If I search "timing cover" or "timing AND cover" it returns many, many posts (OR).

Timing Cover 1965.JPG


Timing Cover new-web.jpg


Timing Cover 1976-web.jpg


Timing Cover - 69 Dart 273.jpg
 
Top Picture is the right one for a '65. You need the metal timing tab bracket for '65 togo with it.

273-Timing-Mark.jpg
 
Yes, good info. Im currently going through all this myself. Im replacing the origional 340 in my 69 swinger with a stroker 360. the 340 has the cast in timing tab on the passenger side, iron pump with drivers side exit water outlet. the 360 has the cast in tab on the drivers side. Mancini shows two different covers in there catalog, 69 and down, and 70 and up.I ordered the 69 and down and got the wrong cover. after contacting them about the problem, i soon realized they had two different descriptions with the same part #
They also shipped the wrong water pump, so i gave up on there help. The machine shop building my stroker said they may have an old cover laying around without the cast in tab, but i would have to find a pointer. Yesterday i picked up the engine, and they gave me what appears to be a brand new cover with no cast in tab. i didnt notice until i got home, so i couldnt ask where they got it. Now the question is, where do i get the metal pointer that goes in the bottom bolts of the water pump?
 
BillGrissom said:
I think either of the 2 water pumps (iron or alum) will fit on any of the 4 below (are there more water pumps?).
Click to expand...

I doubt the LA pumps will work right on the Magnum style cover due to the valleys in it for a reverse rotation pump. They should work fine on any of the other 3 covers.
 
That`s a lot of good info, I`m certain it will benefit someone along the way. I once bought a car and the owner said the engine block was cracked. It turned out the timing cover was corroded allowing water to get into the engine. I was pleasantly surprised to say the least. A bad ground coupled with the dissimilar metals of the timing cover and block can combine to create some serious corrosion.

It`s good to show the difference in timing marks and water inlets because there are many 360 (71 and up) transplants into pre-69 cars (and vice-versa) that create headaches for the mechanic. Between radiators, water pumps, timing cover marks, and dampeners there are plenty of things to be identified and grouped to as what parts are compatible.
 
I've seen the cover like the one from the '69. but never knew the water pump inlet faced the other way.
 
64physhy said:
I've seen the cover like the one from the '69. but never knew the water pump inlet faced the other way.
Click to expand...

Yep. 69 and before had the pump inlet on the drivers side. 70 and later had it on the passengers side. So 69 and before radiators don't interchange with 70 and later unless you also swap the pump.
 
If you have a later engine with a later style cover with the cast in timing tab, but decide to use the earlier style cover with the bolt on tab, can you still use the balancer or do you need to use an early balancer? Are the timing marks in the same place on the two balancers? Never mind, just looked at the photos again. Tried to delete this but it wouldn't work.
 
fishy68 said:
Yep. 69 and before had the pump inlet on the drivers side. 70 and later had it on the passengers side. So 69 and before radiators don't interchange with 70 and later unless you also swap the pump.
Click to expand...

Then the timing mark on the cover gets covered by the water inlet of the pump. ](*,)
 
4spdcuda66 said:
If you have a later engine with a later style cover with the cast in timing tab, but decide to use the earlier style cover with the bolt on tab, can you still use the balancer or do you need to use an early balancer? Are the timing marks in the same place on the two balancers? Never mind, just looked at the photos again. Tried to delete this but it wouldn't work.
Click to expand...
thats a good question, anyone know if there are different dampers?
 
Vitamin c said:
how can you identify what balancer you have if your unsure.
Click to expand...

You could probably tell which is which by the orientation of the timing mark to the crank keyway. Perhaps someone that has both will post a picture of the two side by side so we can see where the marks are in relation to TDC.
 
chewy probably has the extra bolt on driver's side (not visible in photo). I wonder why Mopar eliminated it.

Longgone,
One pit in my '65 cover went almost thru. Likely the fate of most since coolants w/ alum protection were rare then and why most alum block Slants deteriorated (see slantsix.org). Good your block was OK. A little water won't hurt the engine for a short time. The spare 273 I got had been left outside (months, years?). It was filled w/ a water/oil mix, with wet leaves and dirt in the passages, but no rust other than the siezed piston rings, which I am slowly freeing. Years of oil apparently leaves a permanent protective coating.

Vitamin c,
You can probably make a serviceable metal tab fairly easy. Most originals are rusty anyway. Unless you are going for concours. If you have the extra tapped hole in your block, set-screw seal it (probably not in 69). I recall it goes into the water jacket so a lot of pressure.

Re best approach,

Your solution may vary. Since my radiator was busted (destroyed by fan), first task was a new one. Only ones available in the Autozone book were '72+, with outlet on pass side. The matching '72 alum water pumps were $30 vs $65 for the older cast iron and looked better so I went that way. I didn't know about FABO then and was wary of internet sources, plus thought I would be driving in a week. I have become a FABO, ebay, Craigslist "Parts Troll" who can wait months for a good price. Even so, I don't care to add up my purchases to date.

I will install the metal tab so I can mark the balancer at the driver's side integral tab. It would be expensive & overkill to get a later balancer when just a stroke of a hacksaw can make a new mark. Even better is to determine actual TDC since balancers can creep. My oil pan is still off, so I can locate TDC from below with a dial indicator or just measure when the crank arm is centered.

Had I had bought this $100 spare engine earlier, I would have used its '76 timing cover plus oil slinger and spent less than I did on those parts. Anyway, the HiPo pistons will be valuable if I recover them. If I re-use that engine in another Dart (wife is screaming), I will fabricate a timing tab for the driver's side, which makes me wonder that there must be such factory reversed timing tabs, unless some 76 cars still used the iron water pumps and pass side tabs (Canada, Mexico, police, taxi?).

It has been a year and I have been over-thinking and over-buying for this car. I need to bolt it up and start driving it. I thought it would be easier to do everything once and do it right (for the first time), but that is also over-whelming. I don't even remember what parts I have anymore.
 
fishy68 said:
Yep. 69 and before had the pump inlet on the drivers side. 70 and later had it on the passengers side. So 69 and before radiators don't interchange with 70 and later unless you also swap the pump.
Click to expand...

I guess I have the wrong cover and pump on my '64 then.
 
Does that mean you have the wrong radiator also?

I know when I put the 318 in my Dart while I built the 273, I used the 273's water pump and the timing marks ended up under the hose. Radiator outlet and pump inlet on mine is driver's side. Didnt want to think about swapping in another newer radiator, so I did it that way.
 
64physhy said:
I guess I have the wrong cover and pump on my '64 then.
Click to expand...

Yeah I do too on my 68. Everything was already switched over when I got it and I left it that way because the newer stuff is easier to find. Plus not much on my car is original so I didn't worry about it.
 
BillGrissom said:
chewy probably has the extra bolt on driver's side (not visible in photo). I wonder why Mopar eliminated it.

Longgone,
One pit in my '65 cover went almost thru. Likely the fate of most since coolants w/ alum protection were rare then and why most alum block Slants deteriorated (see slantsix.org). Good your block was OK. A little water won't hurt the engine for a short time. The spare 273 I got had been left outside (months, years?). It was filled w/ a water/oil mix, with wet leaves and dirt in the passages, but no rust other than the siezed piston rings, which I am slowly freeing. Years of oil apparently leaves a permanent protective coating.

Vitamin c,
You can probably make a serviceable metal tab fairly easy. Most originals are rusty anyway. Unless you are going for concours. If you have the extra tapped hole in your block, set-screw seal it (probably not in 69). I recall it goes into the water jacket so a lot of pressure.

Re best approach,

Your solution may vary. Since my radiator was busted (destroyed by fan), first task was a new one. Only ones available in the Autozone book were '72+, with outlet on pass side. The matching '72 alum water pumps were $30 vs $65 for the older cast iron and looked better so I went that way. I didn't know about FABO then and was wary of internet sources, plus thought I would be driving in a week. I have become a FABO, ebay, Craigslist "Parts Troll" who can wait months for a good price. Even so, I don't care to add up my purchases to date.

I will install the metal tab so I can mark the balancer at the driver's side integral tab. It would be expensive & overkill to get a later balancer when just a stroke of a hacksaw can make a new mark. Even better is to determine actual TDC since balancers can creep. My oil pan is still off, so I can locate TDC from below with a dial indicator or just measure when the crank arm is centered.

Had I had bought this $100 spare engine earlier, I would have used its '76 timing cover plus oil slinger and spent less than I did on those parts. Anyway, the HiPo pistons will be valuable if I recover them. If I re-use that engine in another Dart (wife is screaming), I will fabricate a timing tab for the driver's side, which makes me wonder that there must be such factory reversed timing tabs, unless some 76 cars still used the iron water pumps and pass side tabs (Canada, Mexico, police, taxi?).

It has been a year and I have been over-thinking and over-buying for this car. I need to bolt it up and start driving it. I thought it would be easier to do everything once and do it right (for the first time), but that is also over-whelming. I don't even remember what parts I have anymore.
Click to expand...
Yes, ive already copied the metal tab from a buddies 67 273, i wanted to keep his but he frowned at that. my water pump is cast iron from Milodon. the balancer is an SFI unit, (forget the brand, Australian made)
 
Vitamin c said:
brand new cover and pump i painted today
Click to expand...
OK, bolted on the new timing cover, the home made timing tab for the passenger side, the new Power Bond SFI race balancer, and when i put the motor on TDC to check my home made tab, the engraved timing marks on the balancer are on the other side of the timing cover. just what i figured would happen. What would the problem be with just useing a timing tape on the damper to get the marks back to the passenger side?
 
green1 said:
Protractor, move the timing mark 180, then timing tape.
Click to expand...
Guess i never thought about the protractor. I was planning on finding TDC with the plug stop tool and degree wheel, and trying to line up the new TDC mark with the origional marks on the damper. Would it be 180 or 90?
 
I'd find TDC like you said by using a plug stop tool and mark the balancer. That way you know for sure it's right cause you never know what the balancer might be off a few degrees and if you just mark it 90 or 180 from where it is now it could still be off.
 
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