Might be if you get to 9s 10s with a small block you know what your doing and weeded out the ones that don't but the big block guys you got a mixture of competent and non competent, some getting there brute strength even with a terriblely mix matched combos.
SB vs BB who wins?
- Thread starter Mean416
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Because dude's drank the Kool aid hard core
You should be able to take a 400 short block bore install 10.5:1 pistons topped with 240 or 270 heads and a 250 ish solid roller cam etc.. and it would be somewhat harder to build a similar powered 408.
Now if you took that extra effort into the 400 as now the 408 and built a B1 or similar type etc..
Now if you took that extra effort into the 400 as now the 408 and built a B1 or similar type etc..
This is todays racers thinking
Put nitrous on it
Put a turbo on it
Mmmm super charger
If it don’t run power adder time.
Put nitrous on it
Put a turbo on it
Mmmm super charger
If it don’t run power adder time.
33IMP
Well-Known Member
......probably cause you can slap a turbo on a 5.3 LS, and make the same power as a 600" big block chevy..... for about a quarter of the money.
...for a little while anyway. Five laps?
But the junkyards are filled with more.
33IMP
Well-Known Member
I wonder if Richard Holdener has done a completely dirt cheap turbo build, a 5.3 straight from the junkyard, open the rings, and a $600 Ebay chinese turbo kit. 600hp for $2000?
I'm betting he has, but he has so much content, I wouldn't know how to find it.
Edit: sorry guys for the detour. Now back to your regularly scheduled debate......
With the right tune, It will be a hell of a lot more power than that 600 in, and believe you me, it can last more than five laps.
It's kind of hard to argue with the numbers. No amount of money spent on a NA combo is going to match even a pretty mild turbocharged setup.
He has done that every which way you can imagine.
Hell he put that GT45 on a motorhome 440.
Very true, but the 500 beats the 408 every day and twice on Sunday when comparing apples to apples.
451's did that weekly a few years ago.
Yeah what I was gettin at is, the 451 using stock factory stuff and off the shelf pistons. On the cheap. But it's his thread.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Again, you don’t have a clue. Like I said, geometry matters.
The deck is way too tall even on a B engine for that short stroke. Ever consider ring seal?
So I’ll do a 3.5 inch stroke small block and turn it 8k. You going to do that with 400 inches and that top heavy piston?
You have a lot to learn about building horsepower.
It's curse like 383 is that there's still a bunch of 400/440 around making less sense to build just like 318 and 360.
The 413 is like a .065" overbore away from being a 426 which seems to be the right size to make 500-550 hp, I guess why a lot of people build 408-416. Ford and Chev peeps love their 427 we should be more open to the 413/426.
33IMP
Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with a 413..... except finding decent pistons for one for less than a thousand dollars.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Is this a trick question? Equally prepped, the big block wins every time.
451 comes to mind with supporting comp, cam, Indy 440-1 head and single plane.
451 revs like a sewing machine
33IMP
Well-Known Member
Nope. I would build a lightweight rod long rod motor, hockey puck piston 400 grams lighter than stock, spin it 8,000 too, and do everything your small block does, only bigger. Why do you think a small block can turn more rpm than a big block? Have you not heard of 11,000 rpm big blocks? (Otherwise known as pro stock?)
Small blocks are terrific, how many are there in prostock?
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
You‘ll still be dealing with windage loss with any B or RB deal. Easily a 50 HP killer right there. And there is very little you can do about that. Not even a dry sump will fix that.
Do you remember PS Truck? I do. 358 inches in IIRC a 2800 pound truck. With truck aerodynamics.
And yet, if you analyze the numbers you’d find that the PST, if it was given a 2500 pound chassis and another 50 inches would be right there with PS car.
Everyone knew it. The trucks were far more popular than the cars were.
And the PS engines use maybe, MAYBE a 3.700 stoke. Most times it’s under 3.700 depending on bore.
EDIT: I forgot to mention at least 2 inch longer pushrods on the B engine. That’s an RPM killer right there. I can tell by the way you talk you’ve never had an engine at 8000 rpm with a reliable tach. You’d know how much the little **** adds up. And it adds up. Quick.
33IMP
Well-Known Member
Maybe. I had a small block that I spun to 7500,,pretty sure it would have been faster spun,to 6500.
So, show me a non-displacement-limited class (pro stock truck was not allowed to run big block, even at a small block displacement) where a small block is faster than a big block.
I will concede that a small inch small block can make more hp/cube than a big block. Can. Doesn't necessarily will.
Hypothetically, Which do you want in your race car, at a hypothetical 2500 lbs. A two liter rice burner that makes 120hp/liter, ....... or a 2800 lbs car with a 80 hp/liter engine..... with 632 cu in.?
I think the 900hp car would be faster.
And I'd rather have a big block that makes the same power at 6000, as your small block at 8000.
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1 inch difference.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
A small block PR is a little over 7 inches. B engines are around 9 inches and the RB stuff is an inch or better than that.
Again, deck height (and by extension) pushrod length is a big deal. Trying to turn 8k on a 7.300 pushrods is far different than turning 8k with 9 inches plus of pushrods.
Details (and geometry) matters.
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