Serious 64/65 904 trans question

-
B

Barracuda tire fryer

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Location
Cordes Lakes Arizona
Im new to Mopar, Ive got a 65 barracuda automatic on the floor, Im not sure but it seems that I may have a 64 trans because from what Ive seen the 65 cable set up for a floor shift car attaches to the trans differently than a push buttom set up or even a 65 column set up ...... is anybody out there knowledgable on this subject? Randy
 
'64 and '65 lever-shifted Mopar automatics are controlled by two cables (one shift, one park), just like '64 and earlier pushbutton units. They attach to the transmission the same, whether there's a lever or a set of buttons and a park slider on the other end. There is an internal difference between button- and lever-shifted cable-operated Torqueflites: the manual valve for lever-shifted units has a second Neutral position on the other side of Reverse, so the manual valve positions are N-R-N-D-2-1. The button-shift units have only the one Neutral position since the park slider engages the Neutral button, so the manual valve positions are R-N-D-2-1. In both cases, the park lock is separate. The rod-shift transmission's first year was '66.
 
The manual valve has to match the shifter: lever or buttons (doesn't matter if the lever's on the floor or on the column). Often easiest to swap the whole valve body, but you can also swap the lever-shift manual valve into a button-shift valve body.
 
Barracuda tire fryer said:
Thanks Dan, so do I understand correctly that I may need a floor shift valve body?
Click to expand...
If you're going to install a '64 and earlier push button trans in a '65.....yes. If your '65 trans is bad and you're going to install the earlier one, just use your '65 valve body.
 
The 65 floor shifter has 2 cables coming out of it, one for the selector and one for the brake pawl at the rear if that helps. If your going to do any trans work, the 66 and up use a more standard PRND21 pattern and use a linkage, and use the slip yoke in the back, not the "Detroit" aka Ball and trunion joint and then there is the driveshaft mod for the slip, etc. Yadda yadda, if I knew all this I would have fixed my 65's! I still have the old shifter.
 
pishta said:
The 65 floor shifter has 2 cables coming out of it, one for the selector and one for the brake pawl at the rear if that helps. If your going to do any trans work, the 66 and up use a more standard PRND21 pattern and use a linkage, and use the slip yoke in the back, not the "Detroit" aka Ball and trunion joint and then there is the driveshaft mod for the slip, etc. Yadda yadda, if I knew all this I would have fixed my 65's! I still have the old shifter.
Click to expand...


Ok my head is spinning. SO since I have a 65 floor shifter how do I make it work with a more "modern" standard valve bodied 904? Does anyone have pictures of how this thing installs All I have are parts in a pile :(

THANKS for any help!!
 
madvaliant said:
Ok my head is spinning. SO since I have a 65 floor shifter how do I make it work with a more "modern" standard valve bodied 904? Does anyone have pictures of how this thing installs All I have are parts in a pile :(

THANKS for any help!!
Click to expand...
You can't that I know of. Maybe using just the shift cable with a custom lever and bracket setup you could make it shift but that would take a lot of trial and error. Just get an aftermarket shifter and be done with it or get the correct factory transmission for that year.
 
You can make the standard push/pull cable operated trans work with an aftermarket shifter, but youll have to remove all the detents in the aftermarket shifter as they are most likely not in "sync" with the detents in the valve body "comb" And youll still lack the second cable for the Park pawl. ISo let me get this straight: You got a 65 floor shifter with 2 cables running out of it, and you have a 64(?) push button or column shift trans? Check out "imperial services" website. I believe they have a conversion kit for these transmissions, but my opinion would be to get a proper 65 cable trans (there is one for 100 bucks listed somewhere) or upgrade to a 66 or newer 904 and a Hurst Pro-Matic 2 as it fits right in the original console and looks stock if it were not for the Labeled ball. This will require a 66 driveshaft or yours modified to a slip yolk of the newer transmissions. driveline shops can do this for under a 100 bucks if you can source them the slip yolk.
 
cudamark said:
You can't that I know of. Maybe using just the shift cable with a custom lever and bracket setup you could make it shift but that would take a lot of trial and error. Just get an aftermarket shifter and be done with it or get the correct factory transmission for that year.
Click to expand...

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?t=11584

Above is what I have in mind. I have a core 66+ 904 that I am going to have rebuilt.

And yes, I will / would be swtiching to a slip yolk as well.

Sound resonable?
 
pishta said:
You can make the standard push/pull cable operated trans work with an aftermarket shifter, but youll have to remove all the detents in the aftermarket shifter as they are most likely not in "sync" with the detents in the valve body "comb" And youll still lack the second cable for the Park pawl. ISo let me get this straight: You got a 65 floor shifter with 2 cables running out of it, and you have a 64(?) push button or column shift trans? Check out "imperial services" website. I believe they have a conversion kit for these transmissions, but my opinion would be to get a proper 65 cable trans (there is one for 100 bucks listed somewhere) or upgrade to a 66 or newer 904 and a Hurst Pro-Matic 2 as it fits right in the original console and looks stock if it were not for the Labeled ball. This will require a 66 driveshaft or yours modified to a slip yolk of the newer transmissions. driveline shops can do this for under a 100 bucks if you can source them the slip yolk.
Click to expand...

Not quite. See my post above this one. Am I crazy?
 
That was what I was trying to describe, a hybrid 65 shifter with a modern trans cable going to a 66 trans. Or get one of these and bolt the guts onto the hump under your 65 console.
530-383-8500.jpg
 
Randy,

I have a 65 and this is what I did to my Valiant (same as cuda)

I have a 72 Plymouth Duster 904 in my Valiant with a B&M shifter. It uses a single cable to shift. What it does is there is an adapter that you bolt to the bottom two transmission pan bolts and you can use a cable. Just Go to Summit and they have everything. I don't really like the new shifters they are really big consoles. Lokar is coming out with stuff for 904's and 727's I may see what they have to offer.
 
Hey guys,I,m wondering if anybody knows the spline count on a 1964 904 push button transmission,I,m thinking of putting a stall converter in but don't know if stalls are made for the early a's. if this in in the wrong forum sorry,I didn't see a question forum. thanks guys.
 
bob64 said:
Hey guys,I,m wondering if anybody knows the spline count on a 1964 904 push button transmission,I,m thinking of putting a stall converter in but don't know if stalls are made for the early a's. if this in in the wrong forum sorry,I didn't see a question forum. thanks guys.
Click to expand...
In short,...no, You have to have '68 and up pump,input, and frt. clutch pieces adapted into the early case. Don't remember the early 904 count, but the later non-lockup's
are 27...........'72 and ups have a larger bearing support section up front.
 
madvaliant said:
Not quite. See my post above this one. Am I crazy?
Click to expand...
Look up Imperial (Industries / Services?), they make conversion bracket/linkage assemblies for doing just this sort of thing.........................
 
bob64 said:
Hey guys,I,m wondering if anybody knows the spline count on a 1964 904 push button transmission,I,m thinking of putting a stall converter in but don't know if stalls are made for the early a's. if this in in the wrong forum sorry,I didn't see a question forum. thanks guys.
Click to expand...
Its 18, I just went through this buying one for a guy. Careful, count the bottom splines.....you can turn your in and get it "stalled' by a competent builder.
 
bob64 said:
Hey guys,I,m wondering if anybody knows the spline count on a 1964 904 push button transmission,I,m thinking of putting a stall converter in but don't know if stalls are made for the early a's. if this in in the wrong forum sorry,I didn't see a question forum. thanks guys.
Click to expand...
To add, so You don't get into trouble, the crank if it's OE era ('67 and down) has a smaller hub,..that requires a custom/hybrid converter which few companies still build.
 
Killer6 said:
To add, so You don't get into trouble, the crank if it's OE era ('67 and down) has a smaller hub,..that requires a custom/hybrid converter which few companies still build.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the help, Bob
 
A lot of confusing info in this thread.
1) you can swap valve bodies between the PB trans, and the 65 trans (as stated, the valve body must match the shifter).
2) You can swap the manual valve and detent from a PB trans into the 65 trans. You cannot put a 65 manual valve in a PB valve body. The PB valve body has a closed end where the valve goes, and the 65 manual valve is longer, then the 64 valve.
3) Crank pilot and input splines on the trans changed between 67 and 68.
67 down had a pilot dia of 1.550 and a spline count of 18
68 up non lockup had a pilot dia of 1.810 and a spline count of 27
4) to put a 67 or older trans to a 68 or newer engine, a adapter ring is required in the end of the crank, and the late flexplate. (slant six or small block).
5a) to put a 68 or newer trans to a 67 or older engine is harder. "Hybrid" converter with small pilot and 27 spline count. Hipo converter companies have been discontinuing this, and the ones that still do are pricey. Dacco converters still has this available in a stock stall speed configuration.
5b)Swap the early front section of the trans (input shaft, pump, etc) into the late trans, and use the early converter.
5c) use the late crank in the early engine,
5d) bore out the early crank pocket from 1.550 to 1.810, and use the early flex plate.

For performance converters, there is no problem getting them in either early (1.550 pilot and 18 spline), or late (1.810 pilot and 27 spline) it is just the "hybrids" that are the problem
I think I covered every thing
 
Are '65 column and '65 console shifted A904's the same transmission? I have '65 Barracuda with a slant 6 and console shift and I am thinking about buying a '65 Dart that's on craigslist with a 273 V8 and column shift. I was just wondering, if I could swap them without any issues?
 
65barracudaLA said:
Are '65 column and '65 console shifted A904's the same transmission? I have '65 Barracuda with a slant 6 and console shift and I am thinking about buying a '65 Dart that's on craigslist with a 273 V8 and column shift. I was just wondering, if I could swap them without any issues?
Click to expand...
You can swap the V- engine and trans, in place of the 6 cyl engine and trans. Use the cables that are with whichever shifter you use. Cable length is different, and the hookup at the shifter might be different (not sure). Connection at the trans is the same.
 
Charrlie_S said:
A lot of confusing info in this thread.
1) you can swap valve bodies between the PB trans, and the 65 trans (as stated, the valve body must match the shifter).
2) You can swap the manual valve and detent from a PB trans into the 65 trans. You cannot put a 65 manual valve in a PB valve body. The PB valve body has a closed end where the valve goes, and the 65 manual valve is longer, then the 64 valve.
3) Crank pilot and input splines on the trans changed between 67 and 68.
67 down had a pilot dia of 1.550 and a spline count of 18
68 up non lockup had a pilot dia of 1.810 and a spline count of 27
4) to put a 67 or older trans to a 68 or newer engine, a adapter ring is required in the end of the crank, and the late flexplate. (slant six or small block).
5a) to put a 68 or newer trans to a 67 or older engine is harder. "Hybrid" converter with small pilot and 27 spline count. Hipo converter companies have been discontinuing this, and the ones that still do are pricey. Dacco converters still has this available in a stock stall speed configuration.
5b)Swap the early front section of the trans (input shaft, pump, etc) into the late trans, and use the early converter.
5c) use the late crank in the early engine,
5d) bore out the early crank pocket from 1.550 to 1.810, and use the early flex plate.

For performance converters, there is no problem getting them in either early (1.550 pilot and 18 spline), or late (1.810 pilot and 27 spline) it is just the "hybrids" that are the problem
I think I covered every thing
Click to expand...
I hate to ask, but what is a " PB " trans?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top