serious street power.

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hamesdart

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ok guys, i have been sqweezing what i can out of my 440 dart.
more or less its a 68hp motor highish compression, alum heads, ,509 purple cam,stock bottem end....750 holley carb/intake/ so on....
Compression dropped a little but is still stock bore and pistons so its probly just worn...
Before my last race the car was in the 12.80's .... then after few upgrades on the car and motor includign alum heads and better intake it ran slower haha.
I would like to get some big easy power.... the motor is coming back out again to re-ring and bearing it. and i cant go bigger cam since my stock pistons have no valve reliefs so that means pistons as well.
Shoud i just re-ring,bearing,gasket, and get new pistons and a huge cam.... or go all out and just buy the 440 source stroker kit... probly the 512 then go maby a little more cam later on, but probly not rite away due to finances.

Just rather get huge power that can be street friendly. im using it for mainly weekend cruizing and occasional strip use.

I figure a stroker mite be good since im already ripping into it and taking it into the machine shop and going .30 over and all that.
Also with stroker motors how do you figure cid?
i know the formula and all but it says a 512 cid motor is with stock piston bore i think but if you go .30 over with the formula it takes it to 570!?
is it really considered a 570? or still a 512?
 
Same formula applies. You're not going .30 over, you're going .030 over. 4.32 factory bore + .030 equals 4.35.
 
well yah i dont know much on strokers but heres what i saw.
Putting it in the calculator
the 512 crank is 4.25 stroke. & std, bore is 4.32 and that gives a tad under 500 ci.... even with 30 over it gives you 505.. so why would they advertise it as a 512 kit?
 
It seems as if they are figuring the 512 with a .055 overbore (somewhere around 511 actually). I guess they advertise by the maximum cubic inches you can get with that kit. As far as the cam, I would definitley not recommend a huge one. A big cam does not equal big power, especially for a street car. All you will get with a big cam is a bad time on the street. I would say give Hughes a call. It seems like they tend to make their cams more for torque, which is what you need in a street car. Had them recommend one for my 440 and I am very pleased with it. Between 500+ cubic inches and a Hughes cam, I would say you will have a very torquey, fun street car.
 
yah and now for the next few ????'s
Have it balenced by them or no? seeing how they balence nothing but there kits all day i seem to tthink they have it down... but a few people on other boards said they can be fairly far out of spec....
next is brand? i was thinking 440 source... primarily due to price...and there heads were pretty nice to me... the machine shop will be checking it out going in anyways to catch problems.... they sell there kit for 1800 or so complete and balenced for 512 ci...
 
hamesdart said:
yah and now for the next few ????'s
Have it balenced by them or no? seeing how they balence nothing but there kits all day i seem to tthink they have it down... but a few people on other boards said they can be fairly far out of spec....
next is brand? i was thinking 440 source... primarily due to price...and there heads were pretty nice to me... the machine shop will be checking it out going in anyways to catch problems.... they sell there kit for 1800 or so complete and balenced for 512 ci...
Click to expand...

It all falls down to how much do you want spend $$$. The 440 source stroker kits are pretty good. I had the machine shop check the cranks and they are well within specs.
 
i was happy with my source kit. but i thought the 4.15 crank .030 over netted 499 cubes
 
yah my thing is i dont want to have to kill the motor to run 12 second 1/4 times and it needs to get new pistons...rings...bearings and get machined anyway... since ill be getting my tax return around the time the motor gets done i figure stroke it to 512 for big easy power and then maby later on update the cam as well and then it can be street friendly in at least low 12's. i will still do all the fine tunings and tricks to get it going faster but im tired of that being all i got to increase times i guess.... nothing like a big block stroker....
Does the stroker kit change sound at all of the motor? kinda like cams?
 
I can think of 3 things right off the bat that I'd do for a street/strip 440. First if you're buying new pistons anyway make sure the combo will give you 10 to 10.5-1 compression, it may mean zero decking the block, or more, depending on the existing head CC. Next I'd toss the 750 carb (I run those on 383's) and go with an 850 or slightly higher Holley. Last you didn't mention what intake you're using but for the street/strip ya can't beat a Edelbrock RPM Performer. Lastly/lastly what rear gears are ya running.

Terry
 
Not knowing your budget, I'd say port the heads if they aren't already, change to a nice solid FT cam, my have to change rockers...KB pistons and zero decked to get the compression around 10:1, rebalance the crank, and change the carb to a 1000HP.
I did a 413 for a customer that we bored the block to 4.250 to make it a 426cid, ported Source heads, nice 275HL comp hyd. cam, 9.5:1, 950HP carb and 1 3/4 headers.
It made 480HP and idled nice with a slight chop.
It was a very mild build...
 
hamesdart said:
yah my thing is i dont want to have to kill the motor to run 12 second 1/4 times and it needs to get new pistons...rings...bearings and get machined anyway... since ill be getting my tax return around the time the motor gets done i figure stroke it to 512 for big easy power and then maby later on update the cam as well and then it can be street friendly in at least low 12's. i will still do all the fine tunings and tricks to get it going faster but im tired of that being all i got to increase times i guess.... nothing like a big block stroker....
Does the stroker kit change sound at all of the motor? kinda like cams?
Click to expand...

A stock 440 w/ standard bolt ons and tuning will run 12's. A friend had a 70 GTX w/ a 440. (It was blueprinted to stock specs.) It ran low 13's w/o trying too hard. (Closed exhaust.) It had a 750 vac sec on a stock intake, .484 purple cam and headers, stock torque converter and 4.10 gears. It was a lot heavier than an a-body.
I would make sure your chassis is strong enough if you use a 512!
 
SpeedThrills said:
A stock 440 w/ standard bolt ons and tuning will run 12's. A friend had a 70 GTX w/ a 440. (It was blueprinted to stock specs.) It ran low 13's w/o trying too hard. (Closed exhaust.) It had a 750 vac sec on a stock intake, .484 purple cam and headers, stock torque converter and 4.10 gears. It was a lot heavier than an a-body.
I would make sure your chassis is strong enough if you use a 512!
Click to expand...

just spend your money on higher compression pistons at +.060", a balance job, port the heads, bigger valves and a bigger carb. the cam you have will go 12's with no problem and even bust into the 11's.
 
ou812 said:
Not knowing your budget, I'd say port the heads if they aren't already, change to a nice solid FT cam, my have to change rockers...KB pistons and zero decked to get the compression around 10:1, rebalance the crank, and change the carb to a 1000HP.
I did a 413 for a customer that we bored the block to 4.250 to make it a 426cid, ported Source heads, nice 275HL comp hyd. cam, 9.5:1, 950HP carb and 1 3/4 headers.
It made 480HP and idled nice with a slight chop.
It was a very mild build...
Click to expand...

What sort of power do you think your recomendation will make?

Im guessin 550 hp?
Thats plenty to kick up a storm on the street!
 
had a friend whom had a 446 with a 509 purple stripe cam with big valves ,head port work,10.9 to 1 compression,1050 dominater,team G.Parts were stuff people had layin around .-ran 7.88 in a 72 Challanger and drove it to the track and a weekend cruiser he had juice but never hit it at the track only if needed on da street
 
nemesis said:
What sort of power do you think your recomendation will make?

Im guessin 550 hp?
Thats plenty to kick up a storm on the street!
Click to expand...


Yes between 525-550HP. Depends on the heads (port flow & type), cam selection, headers used.
 
How much money do you have for this? Also figure on needing things like a torque convertor and bigger cab for starters.
 
Well ok.. Basically the rest of my set up is ok.. to me at least.
about 2800 converter... 3.91 gears And the heads have had a valve job and better locks and retainers installed.

I figured that since my bearing/rings/seals need to be replaced anyways since the motor has never been torn apart and to go any bigger cam in the future if i wanted too pistons too.....
I figure i could spend about $2000 out the door for my shortblock to get cleaned/flauxed/bored .030 over and put the new stroker bottem end in....
Then put the heads back on or maby if any money is left over(not likely)
and then the new pistons w/valve reliefs leave room for bigger cam in the future when more money comes....
As for budget..... tighter then a 500lb mans pants.... small pants too.
I dont have money but i will be spending most of my tax return on this so i rather just go big and get a stroker kit.
as for other parts...intake and stuff.. not changing. anything else on the motor is there for a reason.
 
yah just to re-touch on it... money is few and far between... besides the
re-build,machine shop cost, future cam,bigger carb,possible torque converter & gears,and the rest of the cars needs....interior...and some other stuff.

So what im working on now is a solid street/strip short block....on a very serious budget...
I am planning on leaving everything else alone for now... even if it hurts power for a little...like gears...carb...and so on since it can be changed later because the only time i ever have money for the car is stuff like tax returns...bonuses... and so on. So i figured the motor needs to be freshened up and get new pistons... and i want to get more power out of it so i dont have to rip on the motor as hard to get high 12's in the 1/4 haha.

My eventual build in the future would be the following...
512 stroker. (440source probly) due to price.
440source heads (currently running) port job if money is there,
540 lift or so solid cam/roller rockers.
850 holley. same intake headers,and everything else.

I guess the general reason i posted this to the board was to see if since im going to be ripping into the shortblock now if throwing in a stroker kit which isnt much more then buying the pistons/rings/bearings machine cost seperate
considering the performance gain....
 
$2K isnt enough to go thru it properly IMO. And not even close to the stroker setup. You dont need 500" inches in an A body to run quick. You do need a solid shortblock. After buying pistons and wear parts, and haveing the basic quality machine work done, you wont have enough to get the rest done... A sick thing about the convertor... What you have, will change drastically when the engine is actually making some steam. I would replace the pistons w/KB hypers, have the rods re-done with ARP bolts, internally balance it, and then bolt up everything you have now. Replace the carb with a 4150 series 850cfm and the car should have enough once it's debugged to run way into the 11s on pump fuel. But Id wager the cost will be cloer to $3K.
 
yah i just cant see it costing too too much...
My machine cost was about $300 for cleaning and boring,checking /balencing./ Then cost of of the 440 stroker kit.. everything included was 1900
So short block would run about 2200..
PLus later mods i will do down the road.... meaning carb..and so on.
 
yah im kinda torn... i can either buy the re-ring/bearing and piston kit freeze plugs... and so on for about $ 770 + machine shop cost... and have it balenced and so on... so i would be talking around 1500 on the high end for a shortblock... balenced and bored and assembled...

or another 1000 at least for the full stroker... crank and rods....
 
You're overlooking a binch. Block hardware, cam bearings and installation, rod bolts, resizing, oil pump, pickup, and drive, a timing set, gaskets a bathtub, cleaning of tin and stuff, paint, all the tuneup and oil change stuff. I also cant believe the machine work's that cheap. I'd be wary of anything that cheap unless its a family member or something. I'm not trying to be a kiljoy. Just make sure you really know what you need.
 
not to get off topic of the shortblock build but,well the main thing is after my last race of actually going slower after I put a few mods on including alum heads and stuff. After that i said im either stroking it...or puting a blower on it haha.
And now that im going to freshen it up i figure why not.... if i can do it around 2500 dollers then i can swing it... but dosnt leave room for anything else in the future,cam and carb and everything would have to wait..
All the car need needs is really pistons and freshend up.

So what im working on here is the shortblock for now..
I Guess the real question is should i Just keep it simple for the money and do new pistons...which i was doing already,rings,seals,plugs,balence,.030 over
and hardwear?
Or get the crank and rods too for the extra $$$
IS the power of a 512 worth the extra cost...$1500 or so..
 
just my opinion... You dont have enough for a 505. 440 Source uses the .060 over bore size as advertising hype. So you wont be building a 512. Least not unless yo udo the sonic testing like you should be to stroke it. Then there.s the heads, the cam, the springs for the cam, the intake, and the carb... notto mention the new conver tor it's going to need. The car isnt as good as it could be now and a solid 440 will get you a lot faster than where you are now.
 
I understand why you would leave the cam, carb, etc. alone for now. You want to just get the shortblock and upgrade the rest as you have cash.
I agree with Moper that you ain't got enuf scratch yet! Set your cash aside and wait for that next bonus.
Right now, I'd be concerned as to why it slowed down after you put on aluminum heads and whatever else you did. Maybe you could post what you had and what you did to it to slow it down.
I used to own a stock '72 340 Demon that I bracket-raced the bejeesus out of. On a grudge night, a guy asked me what was done to it, after we made a pass. He had cam, headers, carb, intake, etc., on his early small block Camaro and was embarrassed when he saw my "combo". What I'm getting at is; getting the most out of a combo is very gratifying.
 
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