Single or double?

[junkyardhero]

Are there any negatives to just using an older water pump? The cast iron ones are fairly reasonable in price. Is it just the timing marks that are the issue?

with the 360 timing cover you won't be able to see the timing marks-- or just barely, if you can. it also exits on the DS.

the key is that it all has to work as a system, otherwise you wind up with a kludged together mess.

if i was in your position i'd look at something 70+ so it's pass side pump & radiator, and the upper will be skewed toward the DS so there's no interference with the fan. sourcing a shroud and clutch fan (or electric fan) would be cheaper and easier with that type of radiator.

 

[Mattax]

Are there any negatives to just using an older water pump? The cast iron ones are fairly reasonable in price. Is it just the timing marks that are the issue?

IIRC the snout is shorter. So it effects the pully alignment and fan position. That's not good or bad. its just the things that need to be figured out so the system works.

Are you going for long term solution or a lets get it running?
If its lets get it running, then get the correct spacer (and bracket if need be) for the alternator to line up for the exisiting engine. Someone posted the water pump pulley was for a 70 with A/C. You check diameters and position to see if that's right. If so, then double pulley should line up. Also check the crankshaft pulley. The pulleys need to be a set so the drive ratio for the water pump and alternator are matched. Assuming this all came with the engine, its probably all OK to get you going,

Then you can look at a longer term solution. A new square top like you posted can work. Its just going to be a little project. Make sure you can get fan shroud for it and be prepared to spend some time checking fan spacing and positioning. When you trial the install, crumple up some aluminum foil and close the hood gently. See if there is clearance or contact.
Square top clearence as modified

You can always go back to your short term solution while you work out this out. I had to send the 68/70 radiator back to Bob because it was too tall. Its part of the process - he wouldn't take payment until it fit.

And this is the 5 blade clutch fan with the bubble top.

Too close for my comfort. Thats why I went to the factory fan with the notches to clear the tank.


One more component about the cooling to think about - at least long term - is a recovery tank. These cars only had an overflow hose. if you want a recovery tank, or will be participating in an activity where a catch can is required, then develop a plan for that too. it looks like the horns on your 69 are in similar location to my 67. Not much room there, but you can make brackets that will fit a quart can or tank.

and for the bubble top a different tank was needed

(I'm not a fan of electric fans on these cars. They are a project of their own with thier own headaches. One of which is the electrical aspects.)

 

[340sFastback]

Are there any negatives to just using an older water pump? The cast iron ones are fairly reasonable in price. Is it just the timing marks that are the issue?

The '69 and earlier cast iron pumps are shorter and require pulleys and alternator brackets that are compatible. And finding '69 and earlier pulleys is a challenge. The aftermarket tends to cater to the '70 and up aluminum water pump and pulleys that are compatible with that pumps offset. Unless you are die hard has to be correct for that year you save a lot of head aches staying with aluminum water pump and the '70 and up pulley offsets.

As for AC the '69 and earlier cast iron water pumps ran a single belt from AC to crank. '70 and up ran a double belt that wrapped around crank, AC, and alternator.

So its not a one size fits all. There is '69 and earlier cast iron and pulleys and brackets matched to that offset. Then in '70 aluminum water pump all the pulleys and bracket offsets changed and belt routing changed to. '70 up much easier to find correct pulleys brackets ect then the earlier cast iron water pumps setups.

 

[340sFastback]

with the 360 timing cover you won't be able to see the timing marks-- or just barely, if you can. it also exits on the DS.

the key is that it all has to work as a system, otherwise you wind up with a kludged together mess.

if i was in your position i'd look at something 70+ so it's pass side pump & radiator, and the upper will be skewed toward the DS so there's no interference with the fan. sourcing a shroud and clutch fan (or electric fan) would be cheaper and easier with that type of radiator.

I run a '70 up timing cover with a '68 and earlier timing tab bolted to pass side. Then I cut a new groove in balancer for zero degrees on pass side. So the '70 up timing cover can be made to work on cast iron water pump cars.

'69 was only year timing marks were cast on pass side a one year only thing. '68 and earlier a bolt on tab was used on pass side.

 

[shep76]

Thanks all for the information. I ordered 70 brackets and an alternator. I was only able to get it to run a few minutes this weekend, something screwy with the carb. I removed the thermostat didn’t see much water flow so not sure if I may need a new pump but based on what you guys are saying I will likely stick with the 70 and up combo. At the moment I’m just trying to figure out what I have and what’s salvageable. I’m not going to be able to drive it far, the ball joints are super loose. I did get the brakes functioning at least. Taking it off the trailer with just an ebrake was interesting. Something I just remembered, 30 years ago as a teenager I put a 360 into a 67 barracuda… so I must have had to figure this out but I can’t remember how I did it. I remember going to a radiator shop and I had no money so it couldn’t have been all that expensive. Cold case has a radiator that will work, maybe I could paint it black to keep a more stock look. Someone on eBay is selling a 69 340 radiator for like 900 bucks….yikes.

 

[junkyardhero]

if you don't care about originality and aren't stickler for details, then 70+ is the way forward.

i have a 69 and to me the bubble top rad is what "makes" the look, so i'm stuck with the expensive stuff due to my own aesthetic choices. but i'm also operating from a position of already having a V8 radiator, shroud and clutch fan.

but, due to my hubris when i retro fit the AC out i'll be either buying an expensive bracket or fabbing one up. and the same if i change anything regarding my power steering or alternator.

if i was starting from zero, i'd certainly take a different approach and that would start with 70+ timing cover/water pump and the pass side lower radiator. depending on my state of cheapskateness, it would either be a mix-n-match of junkyard stuff from mid 70's to early 80's truck or i'd pull the trigger for a CVF kit and grind my teeth about getting it done while knowing that i could do it cheaper.

 

[shep76]

Hubris has definitely cost me money as well. I like the stock look for sure. I just don’t think I will kill myself trying to get it back to 100% 1969 originality. It’s actually a mish mash of two different cars. The back end numbers don’t match the vin and front end. Obviously the drive train is not original. And I think the seats and center console aren’t even from this car….. so I think I will aim for a stockish look but not obsess over it. I think a copper/brass 1970 radiator is the way I’ll go. That cvf kit sure is shiny!

 

[junkyardhero]

i personally think the copper/brass stock-ish radiator is the way to roll. yeah it's more expensive, but it's also a known entity and you can get a shroud for it and everything just works together right from the jump.

the champion rads are attractive at half the price. and i know guys that have 'em and love 'em, and haven't had a problem with them. and i've installed a few at the behest of clients with relatively little drama. but to me, that good money spends once and gets the job done the first time.

the alternative being one of the higher end alum. jobbies and a shroud with elect. fans, which is distinctly not my jam.

 

[shep76]

i personally think the copper/brass stock-ish radiator is the way to roll. yeah it's more expensive, but it's also a known entity and you can get a shroud for it and everything just works together right from the jump.

the champion rads are attractive at half the price. and i know guys that have 'em and love 'em, and haven't had a problem with them. and i've installed a few at the behest of clients with relatively little drama. but to me, that good money spends once and gets the job done the first time.

the alternative being one of the higher end alum. jobbies and a shroud with elect. fans, which is distinctly not my jam.

Yeah, I don't like that either. Aluminum shrouds are for the ZZ top deuce coupe crowd.

 

[shep76]

i personally think the copper/brass stock-ish radiator is the way to roll. yeah it's more expensive, but it's also a known entity and you can get a shroud for it and everything just works together right from the jump.

the champion rads are attractive at half the price. and i know guys that have 'em and love 'em, and haven't had a problem with them. and i've installed a few at the behest of clients with relatively little drama. but to me, that good money spends once and gets the job done the first time.

the alternative being one of the higher end alum. jobbies and a shroud with elect. fans, which is distinctly not my jam.

I saw you mentioned "clients". Do you actually make money restoring cars? Is that your job?

 

[junkyardhero]

I saw you mentioned "clients". Do you actually make money restoring cars? Is that your job?

i don't restore cars. i'm a mechanic and i work on old cars (and sometimes new). you need suspension rebuilt? no problem. you need a rear end swapped? sure thing. wanna go from a slant to a V8, or swap a big block? that's my jam.

but no restoration. brakes, waterpumps, tune ups, reseal an engine. all day man. just old school mechanical work.

(yes the occasional LS swap makes its way thru as well)