Single or Dual Pattern Cam

[Dan the man]

What cam is better for the building of my small block? One of the posts earlier suggested a LSA of a 108*. I went through some of the lunati cams and I seen a cam with 275* and 220* at 0.050", I think that the lift was. 475 Both the LSA and ICL were 108*. I know that I've been given suggestions on a cam which I'm going to write down that information as well, wanted to know what you guys think about this cam.

 

[Ottmundr]

What cam is better for the building of my small block? One of the posts earlier suggested a LSA of a 108*. I went through some of the lunati cams and I seen a cam with 275* and 220* at 0.050", I think that the lift was. 475 Both the LSA and ICL were 108*. I know that I've been given suggestions on a cam which I'm going to write down that information as well, wanted to know what you guys think about this cam.

We don't know **** here man, you need to figure out what you want to do with your car. You are making this too complicated.

Example;

1) The car has a 7 1/4 2.76 pegleg, tire height is 26". Don't even get a lunati 10200701 if you are planning to run that rear end, even that cam will destroy it within a couple of years of beatings.

2) The car has a dana 60 with 456 gearing.
Go nuts.

If I remember correctly, you are just cruising around in a 4bbl 318, right.
The perfect cam does not exist! Get good enough. Read RustyRatRod's guide to hot rod bliss.

Or go down the road at 6,000 rpm. What does that sound like, how often do you do that? Where do you do most of your driving? Go to lunati or comp or isky or crane and find a cam that is designed for that rpm range where you do drive.

If you want to have that rumpitty-rumpitty, look at the Hughes whiplash line or the comp thumper/motherthumper line
Or call a cam grinder.
Eventually you are going to have to pick one and go with it, and don't forget about buying the correct converter.

 

[Dan the man]

We don't know **** here man, you need to figure out what you want to do with your car. You are making this too complicated.

Example;

1) The car has a 7 1/4 2.76 pegleg, tire height is 26". Don't even get a lunati 10200701 if you are planning to run that rear end, even that cam will destroy it within a couple of years of beatings.

2) The car has a dana 60 with 456 gearing.
Go nuts.

If I remember correctly, you are just cruising around in a 4bbl 318, right.
The perfect cam does not exist! Get good enough. Read RustyRatRod's guide to hot rod bliss.

Or go down the road at 6,000 rpm. What does that sound like, how often do you do that? Where do you do most of your driving? Go to lunati or comp or isky or crane and find a cam that is designed for that rpm range where you do drive.

If you want to have that rumpitty-rumpitty, look at the Hughes whiplash line or the comp thumper/motherthumper line
Or call a cam grinder.
Eventually you are going to have to pick one and go with it, and don't forget about buying the correct converter.

I'll research on what cam I need for my application, then I'm going to contact the cam company and see what compression ratio I need to get the best performance from the cam. If need be I'll ask the cam company about a custom grind cam.

 

[Dan the man]

We don't know **** here man, you need to figure out what you want to do with your car. You are making this too complicated.

Example;

1) The car has a 7 1/4 2.76 pegleg, tire height is 26". Don't even get a lunati 10200701 if you are planning to run that rear end, even that cam will destroy it within a couple of years of beatings.

2) The car has a dana 60 with 456 gearing.
Go nuts.

If I remember correctly, you are just cruising around in a 4bbl 318, right.
The perfect cam does not exist! Get good enough. Read RustyRatRod's guide to hot rod bliss.

Or go down the road at 6,000 rpm. What does that sound like, how often do you do that? Where do you do most of your driving? Go to lunati or comp or isky or crane and find a cam that is designed for that rpm range where you do drive.

If you want to have that rumpitty-rumpitty, look at the Hughes whiplash line or the comp thumper/motherthumper line
Or call a cam grinder.
Eventually you are going to have to pick one and go with it, and don't forget about buying the correct converter.

I think that when cam companies list their cams they should give the compression ratio, stall speed converter and gearing to get the best performance from their cams.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Normally, the answer to that question depends on whether you're going to run an exhaust manifold or headers. Generally speaking, exhaust manifolds get split patterns and headers get single. But that's not set in stone at all. For example, right now, the current engine I have in Vixen has an exhaust manifold with a single pattern camshaft. The current build I am working on will have headers and a split pattern camshaft because "that's what I want".

 

[RustyRatRod]

I think that when cam companies list their cams they should give the compression ratio, stall speed converter and gearing to get the best performance from their cams.

All of that is "up to you" to match the given parts of your combination to the camshaft.

 

[toolmanmike]

I think that when cam companies list their cams they should give the compression ratio, stall speed converter and gearing to get the best performance from their cams.

Some companies do have compression and gear suggestions. I know this isn't your only cam thread. You apparently gave up on the confusion in the last thread. Like Ott said, there is no magic cam for a stock 318. If you are building a car and start fresh with a engine build, you will need the correct convertor and rear gear to match.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Some companies do have compression and gear suggestions. I know this isn't your only cam thread. You apparently gave up on the confusion in the last thread. Like Ott said, there is no magic cam for a stock 318. If you are building a car and start fresh with a engine build, you will need the correct convertor and rear gear to match.

Crane always did that. They gave a minimum compression and whether the particular cam "liked" gears and so on. With all of the tricks you can do regarding camshaft timing and ignition curves though, you can widen the "accepted" camshaft choices greatly.

 

[Dan the man]

Some companies do have compression and gear suggestions. I know this isn't your only cam thread. You apparently gave up on the confusion in the last thread. Like Ott said, there is no magic cam for a stock 318. If you are building a car and start fresh with a engine build, you will need the correct convertor and rear gear to match.

I'll be glad when this all is done with, I never dreamed that trying to have a fun car was such a pain in the butt

 

[eekvonzipper]

Normally, the answer to that question depends on whether you're going to run an exhaust manifold or headers. Generally speaking, exhaust manifolds get split patterns and headers get single. But that's not set in stone at all. For example, right now, the current engine I have in Vixen has an exhaust manifold with a single pattern camshaft. The current build I am working on will have headers and a split pattern camshaft because "that's what I want".

Single or Dual pattern cam? what does it mean Triple R?

 

[RustyRatRod]

Single or Dual pattern cam? what does it mean Triple R?

Different lifts and or durations from intake to exhaust is split pattern or dual pattern. Symmetrical specs are single patterns.

 

[toolmanmike]

Crane always did that. They gave a minimum compression and whether the particular cam "liked" gears and so on. With all of the tricks you can do regarding camshaft timing and ignition curves though, you can widen the "accepted" camshaft choices greatly.

Exactly. We love to help around here but the OP rally needs to type 318 cam in the search box and read through 15 or so pages of threads about the subject. Us vet's here sound like a broken record every time on of these threads comes up. There is no correct answer. I try to use the common sense approach with cams for mild engines. If a aftermarket cam is close to the stock specs, why replace it unless it is worn out or you are doing a stock rebuild. If you are building a hot rod, be prepared to open your checkbook and buy everything it will take to make your combination work.

 

[toolmanmike]

I'll be glad when this all is done with, I never dreamed that trying to have a fun car was such a pain in the butt

You are making it a pain.

 

[Dan the man]

Exactly. We love to help around here but the OP rally needs to type 318 cam in the search box and read through 15 or so pages of threads about the subject. Us vet's here sound like a broken record every time on of these threads comes up. There is no correct answer. I try to use the common sense approach with cams for mild engines. If a aftermarket cam is close to the stock specs, why replace it unless it is worn out or you are doing a stock rebuild. If you are building a hot rod, be prepared to open your checkbook and buy everything it will take to make your combination work.

I don't mind buying the needed parts

 

[Rat Bastid]

Different lifts and or durations from intake to exhaust is split pattern or dual pattern. Symmetrical specs are single patterns.

The lobes can be symmetrical or asymmetrical and still be single pattern

 

[fishmarket]

Engine Masters just did a comparison of split pattern and single pattern cams using manifolds and headers on 372 SBC with 10.5 to 1 compression. The split pattern made more power in every configuration.

 

[RustyRatRod]

The lobes can be symmetrical or asymmetrical and still be single pattern

I was trying to keep it simple for conversation sake. Shall I start callin you AJ?

 

[RustyRatRod]

Engine Masters just did a comparison of split pattern and single pattern cams using manifolds and headers on 372 SBC with 10.5 to 1 compression. The split pattern made more power in every configuration.

Well, I've read all that too.....and I agree. I was just throwing out there what the "going explanation" has always been. Also remember, every cylinder head ain't a SBC.

 

[Phreakish]

I'll be glad when this all is done with, I never dreamed that trying to have a fun car was such a pain in the butt

The problem is, like others have said, there's no magic 'right' cam. It very much depends on what you want to do.

"best" for a car that will never see a dragstrip is different from "best" for a car that will get slicks and back-halved with a powerglide.

You really need to nail down what you intend to do with the car, and go from there. Do you plan to run headers? Do you have speedbumps where the car will be driven? Do you want to lower the car? Do you plan to drive on the freeway? What kind of MPG do you consider reasonable for this car? Does your budget allow for machining heads for new/better springs? What kind of heads do you plan to run? Intake? Carb? EFI? All of these are just the beginning...

If you have speedbumps, you'll want to plan for headers that don't hang so low. If you don't, you have more options. If you're going to be on the freeway much, you'll probably not want to turn 4,000 rpm at 70mph, and so you'll need to figure out what your 'max' cruising RPM is, and figure out gearing from there. Or decide if you want to install an overdrive trans. You'll also need to give an idea of what kind of wheel/tire you plan to run (to help determine gearing). Do you have a budget for new gears? What rear end is in the car now? Do you plan to lighten the car, or leave it stock? Also, what kind of car is this build going into?

If you don't want to run headers, then you'll likely be quite disappointed in anything beyond a modest cam upgrade since better scavenging during overlap relies on longer primary lengths the headers provide.

You've mentioned wanting to run a magnum 5.2 or 5.9 in the future. There's not a ton of off-the-shelf roller cams available for them, but there's some decent ones - if you have decided to rebuild the 318, then you'll need to see what you can do for compression first before picking a cam. A stock compression 318 can give very disappointing results with the wrong cam in it.

In order to get the best guideance, you'll need to get very specific about what you want to do with the car and the type of driving conditions you're likely to encounter. There's plenty of very helpful members on this board who can help you pick a winner - but you need to help them with more and better info.

Calling the various cam companies will help give you ideas, but you'll need to be specific with them too. They're going to recommend something different to someone who will be racing every weekend versus someone who tows a tent trailer each weekend..

 

[Ottmundr]

I think that when cam companies list their cams they should give the compression ratio, stall speed converter and gearing to get the best performance from their cams.

Here is an example
Voodoo Solid Flat Tappet Cam - Chrysler 273-360 264/272

Comp does the same thing, you have to click on the specs tab near the middle of page.

 

[Dan the man]

The problem is, like others have said, there's no magic 'right' cam. It very much depends on what you want to do.

"best" for a car that will never see a dragstrip is different from "best" for a car that will get slicks and back-halved with a powerglide.

You really need to nail down what you intend to do with the car, and go from there. Do you plan to run headers? Do you have speedbumps where the car will be driven? Do you want to lower the car? Do you plan to drive on the freeway? What kind of MPG do you consider reasonable for this car? Does your budget allow for machining heads for new/better springs? What kind of heads do you plan to run? Intake? Carb? EFI? All of these are just the beginning...

If you have speedbumps, you'll want to plan for headers that don't hang so low. If you don't, you have more options. If you're going to be on the freeway much, you'll probably not want to turn 4,000 rpm at 70mph, and so you'll need to figure out what your 'max' cruising RPM is, and figure out gearing from there. Or decide if you want to install an overdrive trans. You'll also need to give an idea of what kind of wheel/tire you plan to run (to help determine gearing). Do you have a budget for new gears? What rear end is in the car now? Do you plan to lighten the car, or leave it stock? Also, what kind of car is this build going into?

If you don't want to run headers, then you'll likely be quite disappointed in anything beyond a modest cam upgrade since better scavenging during overlap relies on longer primary lengths the headers provide.

You've mentioned wanting to run a magnum 5.2 or 5.9 in the future. There's not a ton of off-the-shelf roller cams available for them, but there's some decent ones - if you have decided to rebuild the 318, then you'll need to see what you can do for compression first before picking a cam. A stock compression 318 can give very disappointing results with the wrong cam in it.

In order to get the best guideance, you'll need to get very specific about what you want to do with the car and the type of driving conditions you're likely to encounter. There's plenty of very helpful members on this board who can help you pick a winner - but you need to help them with more and better info.

Calling the various cam companies will help give you ideas, but you'll need to be specific with them too. They're going to recommend something different to someone who will be racing every weekend versus someone who tows a tent trailer each weekend..

Car is going to see some high way driving, so no I don't want the rpm's at 7k going 65mph. I'm willing to get the cylinder heads set up for spring's that the cam calls for. Also, to have the seats cut for bigger valves if needed. Comp valve job and back cut the valve's too, have bowl work done.

 

[Dan the man]

Exactly. We love to help around here but the OP rally needs to type 318 cam in the search box and read through 15 or so pages of threads about the subject. Us vet's here sound like a broken record every time on of these threads comes up. There is no correct answer. I try to use the common sense approach with cams for mild engines. If a aftermarket cam is close to the stock specs, why replace it unless it is worn out or you are doing a stock rebuild. If you are building a hot rod, be prepared to open your checkbook and buy everything it will take to make your combination work.

This very well will be a all winter ordeal, unfortunately. But,if that what it takes, then that's what it takes. I've learned over the years that when you rush through doing a project or cut corners that it only wind up costing you more.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Car is going to see some high way driving, so no I don't want the rpm's at 7k going 65mph. I'm willing to get the cylinder heads set up for spring's that the cam calls for. Also, to have the seats cut for bigger valves if needed. Comp valve job and back cut the valve's too, have bowl work done.

In that case, I would suggest something similar to the largest Comp solid, but ground on either a 108 or a 106 LSA. Ken Heard at Oregon Cam Grinders can make it happen very reasonably.

 

[Dan the man]

In that case, I would suggest something similar to the largest Comp solid, but ground on either a 108 or a 106 LSA. Ken Heard at Oregon Cam Grinders can make it happen very reasonably.

I'll check out Oregon cams, I've never heard of them before

 

[CFD244]

Hit up the cam companies and tell them what you've got, and what you want to do with it. They will give you their recommendation.

Edit: Watch this. Pretty informative.