single stage vs base coat clear

[RzeroB]

I'm going single stage. It was good enough back then so good enough today.

Sounds like my Pops!

In the mid 90's he was restoring a '37 Plymouth and shot it with (are you ready for this?) nitrocellulose lacquer! Yeah, you read it right, nitrocellulose, and it had to be special ordered because nobody carried that stuff anymore. Why did he shoot it with nitrocellulose lacquer? That's simple - "because it was good enough back then when this car rolled off the assembly line." Really?

I explained to Pops that they used that crap because that's all they had and there wasn't anything better like there is today. Pops didn't want to hear it and shot it with that junk anyway. It was only a few years before very fine checking and cracking started to show in the paint. Nobody was more surprised than Pops - "what the hell!? This stuff worked great back in the 30's?"

With stuff like paint, sometimes it's better to go with the more modern stuff as these kinds of things have evolved and are a lot more better than some of the stuff they used "back then".

 

[71beater]

In a different, earlier life, I was a full-time painter.
Doesn't mean I know jack about today's finishes.
That said almost all I ever did was single stage acrylic or polyurethane enamel.
They all looked good, and held up quite well.
Typically they were neither sanded or buffed, so you had better do a good job with the gun.
You can buff the metallics, but you can't cut them too far, otherwise spotty uneven color.
You're not going to cure bad orange peel in them,only reduce it. Solid colors are more forgiving.
Nothing wrong with single stage at all.

 

[71beater]

RzeroB,
A lot of what we have today "evolved" around the EPA, doesn't really have squat to do with durability or quality.
No offense, but the "evolution" of finishes didn't have **** to do with quality or durability, it had to do with emissions.

 

[GeorgeH]

are the sparkles in metallic paint aluminum dust?Is that why you can't cut and polish single stage,because your going to expose and dull the aluminum metallic dust?
...cutting and polishing clear coat never hits the color.

That's what happens. It also can change the appearance of the color. Also BC/cc is more easily repaired should the need arise to blend/repaint a panel.

 

[GeorgeH]

RzeroB,
A lot of what we have today "evolved" around the EPA, doesn't really have squat to do with durability or quality.
No offense, but the "evolution" of finishes didn't have **** to do with quality or durability, it had to do with emissions.

Absolutely.

 

[Tadams]

My Barracuda will be painted an original factory color, no metallic. I really don't see that the single stage will be an issue, but I guess I'll see as soon as I can find the time to get it done. I plan on retiring in August, but I hope to have the paint completed by then.
Thanks for all of the advise and comments, they are most welcome.

 

[Tadams]

I guess what got me to thinking was a guy on another site ask me to please not waste my time and money spraying something that just wouldn't look good on a car like this.

 

[zkx14]

More or less. When you wet sand or buff a single stage metallic you can easily remove the top layer of paint, which is usually where the paint usually gets that metallic look from. So you end up with blotches of slightly different looking paint.

Thanks for that explanation. Now i understand the issue. I painted around the windshield frame and surround with single before installing glass. I'm going to do a little experimenting with sand/buff as these areas will get repainted anyway. So i can see exactly what MY paint will do.

 

[zkx14]

RzeroB,
A lot of what we have today "evolved" around the EPA, doesn't really have squat to do with durability or quality.
No offense, but the "evolution" of finishes didn't have **** to do with quality or durability, it had to do with emissions.

Absolutely.

Do you think todays single stage is even as good as the original paint of 40 years ago?

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

Todays single stage far exceeds the factory paint imo,

 

[GeorgeH]

The appearance is better, but I don't think it holds up as well as the old lead based enamels. It depends on which product your referring to also. Single stage synthetic enamel, acrylic enamel, acrylic urethane, or polyurethane. All different , but most mixing systems I have dealt with use the same acrylic bases/toners with the differences being the binder and activator you use. Most are modified acrylics.

 

[adriver]

Going to drive the car to the grocery store?
I've always used single stage Sherwin Williams acrylic enamel with good results.
I've never used base coat clear coat except one time to repair a dear hit to my wife's Voyager. Pained the whole panel.
I can touch up small areas with single stage. Can you? Can that be done the clear coats?
Metalic is a little harder to do touch up. Have to keep it mixed in the gun to blend right.

 

[ir3333]

...although it hasn't been mentioned single stage paint is very inexpensive compared to some base clear that can easily run 4 digits.

 

[GeorgeH]

Going to drive the car to the grocery store?
I've always used single stage Sherwin Williams acrylic enamel with good results.
I've never used base coat clear coat except one time to repair a dear hit to my wife's Voyager. Pained the whole panel.
I can touch up small areas with single stage. Can you? Can that be done the clear coats?
Metalic is a little harder to do touch up. Have to keep it mixed in the gun to blend right.

You can do it with bc/cc also and even go back and buff it for a near seamless repair. If your talking about "burning it in" those types of repairs usually show back up over time no matter what paint you use.

 

[Tadams]

I was told that if you use single stage that you can spray a clear coat after you spray your last coat of single stage. Not sure because the tech sheet I gave tells me clear coat is not recommended. I'm not even sure if this would be of any benefit unless it adds more durability to the finished product. Any Thoughts?

 

[GeorgeH]

I was told that if you use single stage that you can spray a clear coat after you spray your last coat of single stage. Not sure because the tech sheet I gave tells me clear coat is not recommended. I'm not even sure if this would be of any benefit unless it adds more durability to the finished product. Any Thoughts?

What product are you working with? I have done many with clear over single stage, you just have to be careful you don't re-float the metallic when laying on the clear.

 

[ir3333]

i bought my current project as a painted roller.It had an additional 2 coats of single stage clear over the original single stage Y2 yellow.The plan was to cut and polish it hence the extra 2 coats
I'm happy with it as is with a fine orange peel ...it's similar to a new car.

 

[modracerx]

if its acrylic urethane ss ...clear is not a problem ...its already in the mix ....its basically color and clear all in one all ready .... just let it flash off and put a couple to three coats of clear on ....more uv protection , can be cut and buffed my times to keep that new paint look years down the road ....... if you go solid color s.s. you can do the same thing ..if you do put a couple more coats on so you can cut and buff it also ...done both ...just make sure you put enough paint or clear on ...if it does not come out right ...dust ,runs ,orange peal up the *** you can just cut and buff and it will look like a show car ...been there done that too ...lol....the key is have enough paint on the car not to blow thu cutting and buffing ...put two to three extra coats if you see its not coming out right on the first couple costs so you can fix it ...but make sure your WAIT for the flash in between coats and cure time after before cut and buff... here's a pic ...white and red acrylic single stage ...met. blue base coat ...four coats of clear cut and buffed ...800 in some spots a couple runs ,some dirt from no booth done in my garage ,a little orange peel... then 1000.. 1500...then buffed ...put four coats of the white and red first ..then sanded with 600 to make it flat with no peel or trash ...taped off shot the blue base then the whole car with clear...

 

[roccodart440]

I was told that if you use single stage that you can spray a clear coat after you spray your last coat of single stage. Not sure because the tech sheet I gave tells me clear coat is not recommended. I'm not even sure if this would be of any benefit unless it adds more durability to the finished product. Any Thoughts?

clear over single stage.

I've also done single and then blends of single and clear.

 

[JohnWayne]

I was told that if you use single stage that you can spray a clear coat after you spray your last coat of single stage. Not sure because the tech sheet I gave tells me clear coat is not recommended. I'm not even sure if this would be of any benefit unless it adds more durability to the finished product. Any Thoughts?

Usually you can spray clear coats over the base color if it comes from the same maker. And if you do, you can have the paintshop to blend the base coat without activator, because you got the activator in the clear coat.

 

[Tadams]

Wow! So much great information! You guys are amazing. I hope to spray some interior parts this Monday, hopefully I can post some pics then.

 

[sscuda]

Please don't confuse OEM factory TSA (high bake) enamels to the refinish (air dry) alkyd enamels. They are miles apart in chemistry and workability. The same goes for OEM BC/CC systems to refinish BC/CC systems as there is no comparison what so ever. They may look the same in appearance because they are supposed to but it ends there.

Yes, the main reasons automotive paints in general have evolved is EPA legislation and durability, mostly EPA pushing for lower VOC's (volatile organic compounds).

Air dry refinish (single stage) enamels are fairly easy to spray as opposed to the refinish bc/cc systems because they have to be due to the human factor, meaning they are hand applied. The refinish BC/CC systems are a little harder to spray but not by a large margin and again there is also the human factor to consider.

OEM paint systems are painted in controlled conditions with automation and can be less forgiving. I've been in car plants where they were painting as many as 87 jobs an hour. It looked like a fast freight getting color on it.

OEM Lacquer systems should never have been invented because they are the worst for durability. But, they sprayed not too bad and polished up pretty decent and GM liked them.

Yes, All BC/CC systems are more durable than all single stage systems.


On a final note:

The refinish paints on the market today vary drastically in composition or chemistry (supplier to supplier). It does affect the workability of each product. I don't envy some of you painters out there that have to deal with this stuff on a daily basis.


And please protect yourselves when you are spraying paints, primers, etc.. That s_ _ t will kill you. I can't stress this enough. Some of you that are painting at home with your makeshift paint booths just make me cringe.


:glasses7:

 

[Tadams]

More good information! I will take a chance and use single stage. If it doesn't turn out like I wish, I'll repaint the car. Not the end of the world. Hopefully it will turn out.
Thanks for all of the info!

 

[pa340dart]

Nice paint jobs
Question? what brand single stage did you use
I need Plum crazy 70 Swinger 340
I am thinking of using Eastwood 2K Urethane system
any thoughts ,advice ?

 

[pishta]

Ill show ypu pics of my 96 Breeze bc/cc paint job, but i cant. Because all the paint IS GONE! Clear coat check went down to base coat black which looked like flat black, then went to rust base metal. Single stage for me from now on. My truck is the same but the clear coat is coming off like a sunburn, in sheets. Wtf? Single stage almost forces you to wax it every once in a while while bc/cc looks like it never needs it while it slowly decays.