Slant 6 Turbo 68Dart Project

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Serj22 said:
Having no choke is a big one. It causes you to have to mash the gas in the morning a lot till it comes up to a higher temp. You can't let it warm up in the driveway, you have to babysit the gas pedal so it doesn't die till it gets warm.

My carb is not large enough that it makes an effect on drivability when off boost. If anything the car drives pretty normal while under vacuum, and I am personally running a much lower boost rating, at only 8-10lbs. I still maintain close to 15-16mpg out of it if I just drive around normal.

The other thing with road manners and driveability is the constant monitoring. You can go drive your NA slant around and just do whatever, but with a turbo, you're constantly checking AFR, RPM when boost is on, etc... so there's no relax and drive, and if you say you can just drive it - I am calling your bluff. Take all the monitoring gauges out and drive it. You can't.
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Sorry serj, the 'too big of carb' comment was more towards the 600/650 crowd. Your 350 may be a hair on the large side, but I reckon its not noticeable. Is your intake still heated by exhaust? And believe me, I know all about that cold carb junk. As far out as that hurricane intake of mine sat the carb, along with the size of the plenum, (and a failed electric choke, for a short period of time last October) it made driveability "interesting". And interesting you mention the nervousness factor, that didn't cross my mind.
 
Serj22 said:
Having no choke is a big one. It causes you to have to mash the gas in the morning a lot till it comes up to a higher temp. You can't let it warm up in the driveway, you have to babysit the gas pedal so it doesn't die till it gets warm.

My carb is not large enough that it makes an effect on drivability when off boost. If anything the car drives pretty normal while under vacuum, and I am personally running a much lower boost rating, at only 8-10lbs. I still maintain close to 15-16mpg out of it if I just drive around normal.

The other thing with road manners and driveability is the constant monitoring. You can go drive your NA slant around and just do whatever, but with a turbo, you're constantly checking AFR, RPM when boost is on, etc... so there's no relax and drive, and if you say you can just drive it - I am calling your bluff. Take all the monitoring gauges out and drive it. You can't.
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What he said...:violent1:
 
Bill or sej is there anyone making the PISHTA style turbo adapter and selling them?
 
jungles82 said:
Bill or sej is there anyone making the PISHTA style turbo adapter and selling them?
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You can order the seperate parts or maybe even pick them up at a local store.

Below are some examples of items that can be used. The radius is also important if you go to do this. If the radius is too wide you may hit the shock tower.

I think if you measure everything ahead of time and mark it a local welder might do a couple welds for under $50. Maybe cheaper if you just walk in and hand them the pieces.

As where I have not had one welded yet, I have mocked up a couple different sizes, with flanges and different radii. There are sellers on ebay that will custom make a flange for you if they do not have the size readily available. I had one seller make a 3" exhaust for the outlet of the turbo.

Mike

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...Page=60&Ne=1+2+3+13+1147708&searchTerm=J+pipe

http://www.jegs.com/i/Vibrant+Performance/231/1471S/10002/-1

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...Xturbo+flange.TRS0&_nkw=turbo+flange&_sacat=0
 
jungles82 said:
Bill or sej is there anyone making the PISHTA style turbo adapter and selling them?
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I have never seen these available, finished, from a commercial vendor, but they don't look that hard to fabricate, once you have the flanges. The whole rationale of this piece is that it makes welding on the cast iron manifold unnecessary. Those cast iron manifolds have a well-deserved reputation for cracking, and welding on them is one way to practically guarantee that they will crack, somewhere... and then, you have a problem that can be tedious to fix....

I had the "blueprint", showing the layout and dimensions for this solution, but seem to have lost it (on my computer,) somewhere.... If I find it I will post it... PISHTA is to be commended for figuring out how to circumvent this gnatty problem!!!!
 

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I was talking to a guy today and he said if I was smart I would just put an ls motor in my dart and not mess with the Mopar "crap" its time to break out the pitchforks and go find him lol I wasn't sure if I should laugh or what I just walked away
 
jungles82 said:
I was talking to a guy today and he said if I was smart I would just put an ls motor in my dart and not mess with the Mopar "crap" its time to break out the pitchforks and go find him lol I wasn't sure if I should laugh or what I just walked away
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THERE ARE IDIOTS EVERYWHERE....:violent1:
 
Serj so what's the deal with the car no new videos of smokey burnouts or anything?
 
Took a while to read through all of this so maybe I missed it, but I don't remember anyone mentioning anything about valve springs.

I know Shaker223 says he shimmed his valve springs and at some point he went to 340 valve springs. Looked for some links, but didn't find what I wanted in the allowable time I had, so I can't point to anything other than what I remember. What I remember is he put 340 valve springs in at the beginning, and then shimmed them later, but I don't have any documented proof, just a faulty hard drive (brain).

My understanding is, with boost, you need stiffer springs than when the motor is NA to avoid problems. Pretty sure the boost pushes the valves open, but it's been awhile since I ready anything about that so my memory might be off. Just sticks in my head that anytime you boost a motor, valve springs should be looked at to make sure they aren't too weak.

Just a guess, but I wonder if your issue with boost never climbing above 8 psi is related to this. I remember reading that the head was rebuilt, but that doesn't mean it had turbo quality valve springs installed. If they were just rebuilder quality NA slant 6 springs, they might be way too light and the boost is just pushing the valves off the seat during the exhaust stroke (assuming the compression and expansion stroke would push the valve shut).

Another thing I always remember hearing about turbo motors is a higher quality exhaust valve. Might be that during your exploration of turboing this motor, you fried an exhaust valve due to the quality of the valve used during the head rebuild leading to mystery problems.

Not questioning the head work done, just saying that if the head was rebuilt prior to the idea of turboing the motor, it might be that the components used don't fit the application any longer.

Just some thoughts.
 
Found this thread where Shaker223 mentions his dyno run and states that the motor is stock other than 340 valve springs and a turbo (his first post in the thread). Further down in the thread, it appears that this "discusson" (<- pissing match) happened before he made his first drag run.

Without looking further, I feel that this supports my foggy memory that the 340 valve springs went in at the same time the turbo went on, and that he always had a stiffer spring in the head.

I suspect that if I looked farther, he might even be the source of my recollection that stiffer springs are needed when a motor is turboed.

Not poking at anyone, just documenting my shaky memory.
 
DionR said:
Found this thread where Shaker223 mentions his dyno run and states that the motor is stock other than 340 valve springs and a turbo (his first post in the thread). Further down in the thread, it appears that this "discusson" (<- pissing match) happened before he made his first drag run.

Without looking further, I feel that this supports my foggy memory that the 340 valve springs went in at the same time the turbo went on, and that he always had a stiffer spring in the head.

I suspect that if I looked farther, he might even be the source of my recollection that stiffer springs are needed when a motor is turboed.

Not poking at anyone, just documenting my shaky memory.
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Crane makes a replacement 340 spring that is better than the "340" spring manufactured by Mopar. The Crane spring has a few more pounds pressure on the seat (not much more,) and will accept a lot more lift before it coil-binds. I apologize; I don't have the Crane part number readily-available. And, yes, the pressure from the intake boost on the bead of the valve is trying to blow it open, so, you need to counteract that with more valve spring pressure. You do the math; I can't find my calculator... :banghead:
 
What kind of seat pressure are you looking for in the diesels we used to mess with we used 110lb springs I'm not sure if it was that over stock or what and do you have to run a Wastegate if your turbo has one does anyone have the layout of what a system looks like and what piece does like the bov Wastegate and what they do?
 
jungles82 said:
What kind of seat pressure are you looking for in the diesels we used to mess with we used 110lb springs I'm not sure if it was that over stock or what and do you have to run a Wastegate if your turbo has one does anyone have the layout of what a system looks like and what piece does like the bov Wastegate and what they do?
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The 340 springs work well, since they're plenty strong, up to about 15 pounds of boost. Their only real problem is, I found that they coil-bind at a pretty low lift, so I found a Crane 340 replacement spring that is only a small amount stronger than a 340 spring, but has a lot more lift capability, before it coil-binds. More than I need, but having that parameter built into the design of the spring doesn't hurt anything.

Unless you have the ability to design a system that has a built-in limit on how much your engine will "breathe", yes, you will need some sort of wastegate to keep the turbo from over-boosting the engine.

I don't understand "what piece does like the bov Wastegate and what they do?"

A "bov" has nothing to do with a wastegate. Did you want an explanation of what a bov does, and, how it's built? Fill me in...:)
 
What does the Wastegate do and how does it work and what does the bov do and how does it work just assume I'm an idiot and put it in lamens terms for everyone else lol
Is a 390cfm holley a good carb to run with the turbo setup?
 
jungles82 said:
What does the Wastegate do and how does it work and what does the bov do and how does it work just assume I'm an idiot and put it in lamens terms for everyone else lol
Is a 390cfm holley a good carb to run with the turbo setup?
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wastegate lets pressure off before the turbo so it doesnt spin enough to make more boost without one it would just keep spooling until your motor gave out.

bov lets the compressed charge release the pressure between the turbo and the carb.

if you can find a 390 double pumper it would work. cfm doesnt change because of the turbo. has to have mechanical secondaries. the vacuum secondary carb wont work.
 
Yea cause it will blow the secondaries open right? And vacuum turns into boost once you get into boost I've thought about the tailpipe turbo does anyone have any input? And the guy I'm getting this from has several thousand carbs so if there's something better I should use let me know I can probably get it from him

Serj what's up with your car? And any trunk luggage racks yet? We need updates the highlight of my day is hearing what's up with your cars

And what will I have to do with the Wastegate on the turbo can I run it and I've ran the variable vane turbos on older diesels would they work on gas and you can have dial a exhaust housing? Quicker spool and less heat in diesel applications and going from diesel to gas has been a huge learning curve but a compound setup on a slant would be cool

I understand what the Wastegate does I just don't get it they seem totally different from internal to external
 
jungles82 said:
Serj so what's the deal with the car no new videos of smokey burnouts or anything?
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I just sealed all the leaks in the carb and added the new bits to it that were broken and bolted it back on the car today. It ran all day just fine. Now it's raining. The car doesn't burn out, or at least i haven't been able to ever get it to break loose. The second you feather off the brake the slightest the rear wheels grab pavement and shoot you forward. Dunno. But then again these BFGs also cost $140/piece.

I'll get more video up soon. Promise. Id like to strap it back down on the Dyno now that it functions correctly, but that's when I have $80 lying around again.
 
jungles82 said:
Serj what's up with your car? And any trunk luggage racks yet? We need updates the highlight of my day is hearing what's up with your cars

And what will I have to do with the Wastegate on the turbo can I run it and I've ran the variable vane turbos on older diesels would they work on gas and you can have dial a exhaust housing? Quicker spool and less heat in diesel applications and going from diesel to gas has been a huge learning curve but a compound setup on a slant would be cool

I understand what the Wastegate does I just don't get it they seem totally different from internal to external
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I can always make trunk luggage racks, the problem is mostly in me figuring out how to mount it. I slowed down rack production because people were making me mad - ordering stuff, paying the downpayment, and then never actually buying the rack when it was done. I know people have problems but I'd literally get "that's beautiful, I want it now, but I have to pay my rent, etc... etc..." which is fine, totally understand - till I get the same excuse all the damn time over and over. I have 3 racks sitting here still that people payed for part of then just dissappear or never pay.


For the wastegate, they all work the same weather it's internal or external. External gives you the ability to adjust or hold more pressure. Usually an internal is just set, but there are exceptions. The Kinugawa internal actuator is 100% adjustable. But a regular actuator will usually be set, say 7psi, 8, 12, etc... and you'd have to use a junky manual pressure regulator, which give a nice boost leak in exchange for allowing the spring to open later.

Basically the turbine pressure controls the wastegate. It pushes it open as the boost builds to gradually bleed exhaust heat/pressure off past the turbo instead of through it.

The blow off valve is a safety device. It allows the pressure in the intake tract to relieve itself to atmosphere when you let go of the gas and the throttle blades close. The pressure otherwise goes back through the turbine housing and slows the impeller down, or temporarily causes it to spin backwards and causes a longer spool time or compressor surge in some cases.
 
I finally got some pics added to my profile the license plates are the best part of my car lol
 
jungles82 said:
So I can't find a double pumper in a small cfm what carb should I use?
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Ryan Peterson blocked ff the back two barrels of his 650 double pumper and ran close to eleven seconds-flat in his 2,800-pound '66 Valiant. Holley makes 2-bbl carbs in both 350cfm and 500cfm sizes. The are aftermarket carb shops that can increase the flow pf the 500 to even greater capability, if you need it.

Lots of carb options...
 
So.should I just go 650 mighty demon since it's already setup for blow thru there about half the price of an fast efi system
 
jungles82 said:
So.should I just go 650 mighty demon since it's already setup for blow thru there about half the price of an fast efi system
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That would be MY choice, but you have to factor in the personal preferences I have that come from the facts that I am O-L-D (77) and am pathetically-intimidated with anything that says "EFI" on it (steep learning curve for me,) and the fact that I have experience with tuning carbs, and it seems simple, to me.

Overall, I think EFI might be easier, but not for me...

Good luck! :D
 
Thanks Bill and serj hit me up later I'm gonna build several turbo headers and I'll hook you up.
 
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