small town cop

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Law enforcement is essential. Without it there wouldn't be anything in place to protect defenseless people from criminals. But members of law enforcement should be held accountable for their actions the same as any other member of society.

I have known officers that I had complete trust in. They did their jobs trying to maintain peace and order. I have also known officers that felt they were above the law. They used their positions to bully and intimidate people. You were safe from them as long as you were someone with enough prestige that they didn't want to risk getting themselves into trouble.

Any blanket statement that infers that all cops are bad or that all are good is ludicrous. The truth is that both exist.

In the case that barbee cites, the question that needs to be answered is whether or not the officer's actions were justified.

In most small rural communities major crimes seldom happen. Most people know one another. The use of deadly force is rarely needed. That doesn't mean that there isn't a need for it in certain cases.

My belief is that deadly force should only be used if someone is posing a deadly threat to someone else.

There seems to be a flood of videos that have been popping up lately that show excessive force used by police. - Many where citizens are killed that weren't posing a threat to anyone. Common sense tells you that only a fraction of these types of incidents are caught on camera.

I don't know if this shooting was justified. If the same standard was applied to this police officer as the general public, they'd almost certainly have been arrested. That doesn't necessarily mean that I think they should have been arrested but it goes to show that the double standard exists.

As long as law enforcement is not held to the same standards as everyone else, people will have just cause to question these cases.
 
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dgibby said:
This was my good friend, Doug Barney R.I.P.
Pretty much the same situation expect the opposite outcome.
Police identify officer fatally shot in head while responding to traffic accident in Utah

I'm tired of people thinking cops are a bunch of rouge killers just waiting to get there chance to shoot someone. People are nuts, disrespectful and dangerous. I know there are corrupt cops, but this idea that there just out to kill is ridiculous. Hard to understand why anyone would want to be a cop these days.
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As a 32 year veteran of a state law enforcement agency let me chime in and make a couple of points.
First is that law enforcement is made up of a segment of our society. These men and women do not appear as separate individuals when the application process starts.
Second most small towns and rural areas have city managers, mayors or some group of individuals making the selection. This selection is based on having little or no experience with personality traits, emotional stability, etc. granted some states have POST certification Police Officer Standards and Training that is supposed to ensure your officer meets the minimum standards.
Thirdly more officers are killed in motor vehicle related incidents than shootings, was true again in 2015 as National Law Enforcement month is May.

Finally, the over zealous and unconditional support of law enforcement in the past when wrongs had been committed now brings us to the over critical demonization of all no matter of right or wrong. I would have to agree with an earlier post, I'm glad I got my time in cause even knowing what I know or think I know I would not choose that same profession today.

My .02
 
I do not want to start a sh&t storm with this but I want to offer a perspective from somebody that has wore the uniform of a police officer both in the military and in the civilian world.

We are trained to stop the threat. So, in a potential deadly force situation, you do not shoot the arm of a bad guy who is shooting, you do not shoot the bad guy in the leg and you do not shoot out the tires of someone trying to run you over, regardless of the situation. Being a police officer is without a doubt the hardest career...period. I of course and making that statement with allot of bias.

I am going to give an example...

I am completing the build of a 1969 Dodge Dart GT that was my 19 year old sons. My son will never see his vision and dream completed as he was killed on July 4, 2015. I have been there from the beginning and helped buy and fund it until his death. I disassembled the engine and took it to the machine shop to have it bored, decked and prepped for the engine build. Now, when I dropped it off I explained that it will be a 408 stroker with forged internals and what it would be going into and what the plan was for the car as a driver with reliability as well as a street car to drive on cruise nights and ultimately reflect what my son wanted his dream to be. When I dropped the block off and explained what I wanted, I did not tell him how to do his job, I did not go onto the internet and talk smack about his shop and tell anyone that would listen how to do his job and what he should and shouldn't do.

Over my career of just over 16 years as a police officer, there has never been a time that literally everyone has told me how to do my job from A to Z. I have had my professionalism drug through the mud, I have had my ethics and character drug through the mud, I have had my morals and values drug through the mud. I have had my family threatened, I have been in fights, I have had weapons pulled on me and have been involved in two officer involved shootings. I was forced to retire due to a serious back injury I suffered while serving a search and arrest warrant at an active meth lab across the street from the play ground of an elementary school. Since January of 2013 I have had 4 major reconstructive back surgeries with my last one January 7, 2016 where 7.5 inches of titanium was bolted to either side of my spine, fusing my back from my L4 to my tail bone and anchored into my pelvis on either side...sort of like toe nailing a piece of wood. I had to have 7 inches of bone removed from my left hip to use as a bone graft and I will never be able to twist at my waist and never be able to bend over and haven't been able to tie my own shoes in nearly 3.5 years. I walked out of my house and kissed my boys as I dropped them off at school that more on my way to work...

See, being a police officer is one of the VERY few careers that everyone knows how to do the job better then we do and they have absolutely no issues telling how to do the job the "right way".

I just wanted to give the view of an actual law enforcement professional and maybe it can help us see how difficult the job is and what it takes to walk out of our homes every day and truthfully not know if you will come home at the end of your shift. I have had two close friends who were amazing men, fathers, husbands and police officers be killed on the job and this year we have lost another amazing young man who was a true professional when he was shot and killed while responding to a domestic violence situation. He kissed his wife and kids and went to work...Jason did not make it home and not only does his wife and children lose, we as a community lose.

I don't want to start a huge drama fest here but please...think about what it takes for these men and women to leave their families and go to work to take care of your families. Say thanks, do not be offended if they do not shake your hand...its a cop thing, buy them a cup of coffee, lunch or just genuinely say thanks....Being a police officer is the most thankless career where everyone else knows your career better then you do. We leave our families every day...to protect yours. Think about that when you see the police officers in your communities.

I will end it with that and wish everyone a great and safe weekend.
 
Another example of how it always turns out bad.
The world will never learn and it will never change.
 
My nephew is a cop in a small town. I worry about him all the time. We have a serious drug problem in this country, and small towns are no exception. That does have cops on higher alert for their personal safety. Put yourself in that cops position. Did he have time to determine if that person was having a seizure, drunk, or high on meth?
 
the last several comments make good points that are worthy or re reading. like I said before, I feel for the police community and the job they have to do. law is not a luxury, but a necessity in a society. more likely, we have all been mistreated by law sometimes in our lives, speed traps tickets, tickets that were not "legal", I can name 3-4 personally, it gives me a NOT 100% admiration for the system, BUT I know it is probably the best there is( maybe) in this world.? not to say it coold not be improved?

those that read all the reports providedby the DA office, in this discussion, will see the info provided and make their own judgement from it. no one determined if this person had a medical seizure, drunk, or high on dope. all I wish to say is, I hope no one I know is ever in a situation where they are judged "maybe" too quickly and deadly force is used if not totally (totally) necessary.
 
Very unfortunate incident but if the guy just crashed into a house he cannot get back on the road period. He was trying to drive out of there, the cop had hundreds of choices to make but which choice could he act on in less than a second or two would prevent him from getting back on the road. Sucks to be the cop and sucks to be the driver's family. I know, been there and done that too.
 
999yards said:
Very unfortunate incident but if the guy just crashed into a house he cannot get back on the road period. He was trying to drive out of there, the cop had hundreds of choices to make but which choice could he act on in less than a second or two would prevent him from getting back on the road. Sucks to be the cop and sucks to be the driver's family. I know, been there and done that too.
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according to the police report, a fire of some sort had started after his crash. smoke. the cop no doubt wanted the driver out of his car and to safety. and not trying to drive period. the driver, if had some sort of seizure? is not maybe thinking clearly? who knows. if you had passed out? and drove your car into a building, and you come to and find smoke, maybe flames, do you have the mind to get out of the car, ( the cop is ordering him out), then cop is breaking out his window with a log splitting mall. would you try to drive it back out of the building? is this guy drunk, on dope? medical problem?
maybe the guy didn't want to get back on the road, just get his car out of a burning building? he was not thinking clearing, no matter what he was thinking. sad for the dead guy and no doubt a sad experience for the cop the rest of his life. no winners.
 
I agree it's very sad and there are a lot of questions. But what is without question is the guy MUST not drive away. Lots of what if's and zero time to consider them all.
 
Death is final. Lethal force should be the last resort for civilians or law enforcement. Last resort means it's not the first option. Again, not condemning or justifying this officer's choice.
 
Perhaps if the law enforcement communities growth hadn't outpaced the communities they served at a rate of 3:1 there'd be less cops to make mistakes.:soapbox:
 
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