Soĺ Cal fires

-
W

Workingdog1

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
462
Reaction score
412
Location
Wofford Heights, Ca.
This is ugly. Please send your best wishes for all.

Having worked over 35 years as a Surveyor in SoCal the area is always ripe for disaster and high winds, fire, congestion plus narrow canyon roads exacerbate the problem.

Snowstorms ( everywhere ), hurricanes, fires, earthquakes etc. are natural of course but as society becomes more dense the impact is exponentially greater.

I moved to the hills 12 years ago to get away from the Rat Race. I love that but tragedy struck a few years ago during the Erskine Fire losing over 600 homes in a small community.

Please have sympathy even if it's California and multi- million dollar homes in that neighborhood.
 
Add 2 more. One in San Gabriel Valley near Pasadena, the other San Fernando Valley near Sunland. For the time being they appear to be in the brush country, but are very near to highly populated areas.
 
Unconventional said:
Add 2 more. One in San Gabriel Valley near Pasadena, the other San Fernando Valley near Sunland. For the time being they appear to be in the brush country, but are very near to highly populated areas.
Click to expand...
Ugh. Was on a knoll in Simi I believe in '17 recon for a CalTrans BM on an Aerial and could barely get out of the van with gusts pushing 80. We baled off the hill and managed to get some work done down in the neighborhood . The next day was tolerable.

Miserable but put beans on the table.
 
Just getting myself caught-up on this, and this fire (these three fires, actually) look nasty.

Not much else I can say or do, here in MN, other than wish best of luck to everyone out there.

Be safe, everyone.
 
Workingdog1 said:
This is ugly. Please send your best wishes for all.

Having worked over 35 years as a Surveyor in SoCal the area is always ripe for disaster and high winds, fire, congestion plus narrow canyon roads exacerbate the problem.

Snowstorms ( everywhere ), hurricanes, fires, earthquakes etc. are natural of course but as society becomes more dense the impact is exponentially greater.

I moved to the hills 12 years ago to get away from the Rat Race. I love that but tragedy struck a few years ago during the Erskine Fire losing over 600 homes in a small community.

Please have sympathy even if it's California and multi- million dollar homes in that neighborhood.
Click to expand...

I fought the Erskine Fire when I worked for US Forest Service out of San Diego.

I’m glad to leave the Wildland fire life behind. Good luck.
IMG_4747.jpeg
 
Last edited:
The wind speed yesterday and last night was higher than I think I’ve ever seen. And I’ve been in California my whole life. I woke up at 4 am yesterday and my palm trees were sideways. Sustained 60-70mph with gusts much higher than that. This morning driving to work through chino on the 71 it looked like a war zone with all the dust and trash blowing across the freeway. Winds were down to around 40-50 sustained.
 
Wind was blowing close to 100 mph last night in my neighborhood.

Had the window cracked about 4 inches and the shutters were at 45* angle. Window is about 5 ft wide. Lots of air coming in that small gap. Blowing stuff off a desk about 3 feet away.

Nasty weather and no significant rain for months, dry tinder everywhere out there in those canyons.
 
I hear a lot of grumblings about forestry management in California its non-existent because of regulations and tree huggers.

I’m not trying to poke the bear here but after years of years of fires. I think it’s time for folks to try something different. Not deforestation but control burns and selective cuts of forestry management. Importantly clearing dead fall, under cut the brush, clear fire breaks. Plenty of states do this it’s nothing new.

It shouldn’t be a cataclysmic event every time the wind blows. They’re all about green energy, but I’ll be damn if the California gov just lets the state burn down for politics. It’s easier to ask for federal funding. It’s getting out of control vote everyone of those bastards out.

Prays for those affected.
 
mbaird said:
Hats off to you ! That is one tough job ! The rest of us should reflect when we complain about our hard jobs .
Click to expand...
It broke me. Chewed me up and spit me out. The 12 years I dedicated to throwing my body at nameless hills and canyons, vegetation that grows back, and homes that could be rebuilt seems like it was for nothing other than wonderful and terrible memories.
It is moments like this that I get a little low because I know how exhilarating and adrenaline filled this fire is. I miss it so much and wish I could be young and healthy forever.
I don't want to take away from those who are back in SoCal. This is bad. My home back in San Diego was encircled in a 17,000 acre fire so I know how it feels on the "fire victim" side a well as the Firefighter perspective.
My inclination is to tell folks here who deal with wildfire how to handle this situation if they wanted to prep, defend, hold. However, I would feel terrible if someone got hurt. So, my advice is to just leave. For the future though, study the Australian framework of Prep, Defend, Hold. They don't always evacuate down under. The Civil Defence program offers homeowners training on staying home and fighting the fire.
Now, when you have a WIND driven fire it is advisable for even Firefighters to get out of the way. Wind driven fires are the opposite of routine and structured. It's a **** show and many times us firefighters don't have time to develop the perfect plan and have to just abort mission when the wind dictates fire spread and intensity. There are occurrences where there is nothing to do in front of the head fire except evacuate.
This is one where you just need to evacuate. Watch out for the wind reversal when the East wind breaks down and the diurnal flow returns (on-shore breeze). Get out of areas that put the wind, fuels, and yourself in alignment.

@72bluNblu Come back and read this. I don’t see where I’m saying the Palisades Fire could be stopped with fuels treatments.
You based all your bullshit on your out of context perspective. This is why I tried to initially challenge this up as a miscommunication because I know you didn’t digest my words well. Sorry I went hard on you but you replay stepped on it. PM me for anything further.
 
Last edited:
67/6barracuda said:
I hear a lot of grumblings about forestry management in California its non-existent because of regulations and tree huggers.

I’m not trying to poke the bear here but after years of years of fires. I think it’s time for folks to try something different. Not deforestation but control burns and selective cuts of forestry management. Importantly clearing dead fall, under cut the brush, clear fire breaks. Plenty of states do this it’s nothing new.

It shouldn’t be a cataclysmic event every time the wind blows. They’re all about green energy, but I’ll be damn if the California gov just lets the state burn down for politics. It’s easier to ask for federal funding. It’s getting out of control vote everyone of those bastards out.

Prays for those affected.
Click to expand...
Exactly how are you going to clear millions of acres of brush and sage ? And brush doesn’t generally grow under old growth pines etc… not enough light through the canopy . Also the bark on old Ponderosas is so thick it’s damn near fireproof .
Most overly brushy areas in a forest occur in logged areas .
But I don’t think these fires are in forested areas… most likey foothills with sagebrush and such .
I spend a lot of time wandering through the mountains.
 
go-fish said:
It broke me. Chewed me up and spit me out. The 12 years I dedicated to throwing my body at nameless hills and canyons, vegetation that grows back, and homes that could be rebuilt seems like it was for nothing other than wonderful and terrible memories.
It is moments like this that I get a little low because I know how exhilarating and adrenaline filled this fire is. I miss it so much and wish I could be young and healthy forever.
I don't want to take away from those who are back in SoCal. This is bad. My home back in San Diego was encircled in a 17,000 acre fire so I know how it feels on the "fire victim" side a well as the Firefighter perspective.
My inclination is to tell folks here who deal with wildfire how to handle this situation if they wanted to prep, defend, hold. However, I would feel terrible if someone got hurt. So, my advice is to just leave. For the future though, study the Australian framework of Prep, Defend, Hold. They don't always evacuate down under. The Civil Defence program offers homeowners training on staying home and fighting the fire.
Now, when you have a WIND driven fire it is advisable for even Firefighters to get out of the way. Even a layman can fight a complex fire if they manage it on their terms. Wind driven fires are the opposite of routine and structured. It's a **** show and many times us firefighters don't have time to develop the perfect plan and have to just abort mission and when the wind dictates fire spread and intensity.
This is one where you just need to evacuate. Watch out for the wind reversal when the East wind breaks down and the diurnal flow returns (on-shore breeze). Get out of areas that put the wind, fuels, and yourself in alignment.
Click to expand...
Yeah .. we spend a lot of energy saving structures . Sometimes you just gotta get the hell out of there .
Explain to everyone how fast a fire can move in high winds .
 
67/6barracuda said:
I hear a lot of grumblings about forestry management in California its non-existent because of regulations and tree huggers.

I’m not trying to poke the bear here but after years of years of fires. I think it’s time for folks to try something different. Not deforestation but control burns and selective cuts of forestry management. Importantly clearing dead fall, under cut the brush, clear fire breaks. Plenty of states do this it’s nothing new.

It shouldn’t be a cataclysmic event every time the wind blows. They’re all about green energy, but I’ll be damn if the California gov just lets the state burn down for politics. It’s easier to ask for federal funding. It’s getting out of control vote everyone of those bastards out.

Prays for those affected.
Click to expand...


I could go on about this. The earth WILL burn itself if we don't. If the land is left unmanaged the natural fire regime will return and get on a natural cycle of burning every few years to decades. The reasons we should manage forests are dictated by urban sprawl, mountain communities, and wildland-urban interface. Also, if we are going to be putting these fires out when they are small to try to PROTECT these spaces we are actually doing the worst thing for them. Since the inception of public land management we have been setting ourselves up for mega fires that burn down complete towns. What I mean is we PREVENT the fuel loading from getting cleaned up, THEN, a spark and high winds will burn the rest eventually.
Prescribed Fire, Logging, Tribal land management allowed to be controlled BY the tribes, AND letting the fires burn while being managed for a dual purpose of medicinal fire and control. The 'Let Burn" policy need to stop being demonized. In this case it is too late. The fires they should have let burn last May but put out causes fires like the Palisades Fire.
 
mbaird said:
Exactly how are you going to clear millions of acres of brush and sage ? And brush doesn’t generally grow under old growth pines etc… not enough light through the canopy . Also the bark on old Ponderosas is so thick it’s damn near fireproof .
Most overly brushy areas in a forest occur in logged areas .
But I don’t think these fires are in forested areas… most likey foothills with sagebrush and such .
I spend a lot of time wandering through the mountains.
Click to expand...

One thing to keep an eye on is what we call Type Conversions. That is where a fuel type is burned away and burned so hot (due to dead/down, fuel loading, and ladder fuels) whereas the soil is neutralized and the seed bank is destroyed. The land then converted to a different fuel model, most usually, brush or grassland. This is the danger of putting fires out as fast as we can. Sure, on red flag days we need to but for over a hundred years we've been putting fires out that would have had great benefits down the road had they been left to burn.
 
mbaird said:
Exactly how are you going to clear millions of acres of brush and sage ? And brush doesn’t generally grow under old growth pines etc… not enough light through the canopy . Also the bark on old Ponderosas is so thick it’s damn near fireproof .
Most overly brushy areas in a forest occur in logged areas .
But I don’t think these fires are in forested areas… most likey foothills with sagebrush and such .
I spend a lot of time wandering through the mountains.
Click to expand...
It’s simple really forestry brings in engineers that map the problem areas. With the topographical data they design fire breaks and fire damns so that the forest is compartmentalized in segments. Then the commissioned forestry teams go in and control burn designated areas out side the dry season to burn out the dead fall and brush. This helps with germination of new growth and burns off all the mess that has a potential to catch up. It’s been done. Time to pull out the old play books.
 
First let me start by saying my heart goes out to anyone dealing with wildfire. I come from three generations of oregonians so I understand the tragedy probably better than most. It just makes me wonder why we spend billions of dollars creating bombs and huge militaries then totally get our asses kicked by wildfire that basically destroys everything in its path. And leave others to pick up the pieces of other natural disasters I could go on and on but I won't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top