So Frustrated!

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89 with 85k

That is your ticket.

Throttle body injection was used on those. It's an LA engine with little wear, 308 closed chamber heads, etc.

Brian, I totally spaced the truck sump oil pan. Yeah, that is likely going to be something that you will have to find for your Scamp, straightlinespeed. The pan on your 318 will not work. The main caps were larger on the 360 and because of this, the front and rear seal curved areas on the 360 oil pan has a larger radius stamped into it's shape, so you will need to get a center sump 360 oil pan, which are all over the place, anyway, if you don't end up with one on that '89.

Just be sure to pull the main and rod caps one at a time and heads and get a good look at the engine, before putting it back together. Just look for discoloration on the bearings, make sure they all look the same, look at the crank journals and check for the same, etc. Look at the cylinder walls for excessive ridge wear, check the valve seats in the heads, etc.
 
Headers are the same. I don't know where that crap got started about LA's and magnums being different but their not.

The outer most ports (front and rear) on the Magnum are smaller on the lower outside edge then the LA 340/360 ports. But TTI took it upon itself to make the headers fit the Magnum ports so on the LA heads they "hang" into the port with some partial blockage. But since its the lower edge not as critical. But I hate the fact the TTIs don't match my LA ports. For the cost of TTIs there should be a magnum version and an LA version.
 
Thanks again for the opinion on that 80's engine. Here are 2 others that just responded. Thoughts?

1975- 360 and 727 trans with 61k came out of a Van $500

1976- 360 54k out of a truck $400
 
I'd ask for some sort of documentation on those low miles engines. Unless they were rebuilt, or wrecked about four years after they were new, most engines made in the seventies aren't going to be low mileage as those claim.
 
Well found out that the 75 engine is out of a motor home and they claim it is all original miles.

As for the 80's engines, what years do those roller cam engines start or go thru?
 
The outer most ports (front and rear) on the Magnum are smaller on the lower outside edge then the LA 340/360 ports. But TTI took it upon itself to make the headers fit the Magnum ports so on the LA heads they "hang" into the port with some partial blockage. But since its the lower edge not as critical. But I hate the fact the TTIs don't match my LA ports. For the cost of TTIs there should be a magnum version and an LA version.

Sorry I didn't elaborate much when I said they weren't different. What I meant was I have read posts (been a while) that guys claim the bolt pattern is slightly different so you need adapters to bolt them up, which I'm sure you know isn't true. I didn't realize that about TTI's. I have a set of Hooker's and Dougs and while the Doug's ports are a little smaller than Hooker's it's not enough ot hang over LA ports. Thanks for noting that about TTI's
 
That is your ticket.

Throttle body injection was used on those. It's an LA engine with little wear, 308 closed chamber heads, etc.

Brian, I totally spaced the truck sump oil pan. Yeah, that is likely going to be something that you will have to find for your Scamp, straightlinespeed. The pan on your 318 will not work. The main caps were larger on the 360 and because of this, the front and rear seal curved areas on the 360 oil pan has a larger radius stamped into it's shape, so you will need to get a center sump 360 oil pan, which are all over the place, anyway, if you don't end up with one on that '89.

Just be sure to pull the main and rod caps one at a time and heads and get a good look at the engine, before putting it back together. Just look for discoloration on the bearings, make sure they all look the same, look at the crank journals and check for the same, etc. Look at the cylinder walls for excessive ridge wear, check the valve seats in the heads, etc.

Agreed. I'd also check into the 89 first. One more thing to check is thrust end play. It's generally not a issue but easy to check so you might as well.
 
Sorry I didn't elaborate much when I said they weren't different. What I meant was I have read posts (been a while) that guys claim the bolt pattern is slightly different so you need adapters to bolt them up, which I'm sure you know isn't true. I didn't realize that about TTI's. I have a set of Hooker's and Dougs and while the Doug's ports are a little smaller than Hooker's it's not enough ot hang over LA ports. Thanks for noting that about TTI's

Yes bolt patterns the same but outer ports at all four corners slightly different between LA and Magnum. The TTIs hang about 1/8" into the LA port on the lower outside edge at all four corners. And on an LA head the sealer surface is very thin there cause the headers don't match the LA ports. But since its the lower outer edge performance loss not huge just annoying to have fully ported heads and $700 headers that restrict flow.

Grab that '89 engine. And for the ones you can't hear run have them pull the heads so you can look at the cylinders. The words of people you don't know should not be taken at face value. 50-60k mile engines should have cylinder walls that still look fresh with no lip at the top other than some carbon.
 
Do you think its a good idea to bring my own tools and ask them if its ok. I cant imagine people really turning down the idea, but ya never know
 
Do you think its a good idea to bring my own tools and ask them if its ok. I cant imagine people really turning down the idea, but ya never know

I would. You just never know what's in there if you can't hear it run. I once got an engine from a guy that told me it ran good when he pulled it and it had been in his garage ever since. I took his word cause it looked fine on the outside but when I got it home I pulled the spark plugs and water came pouring out of nearly every cylinder. It was completely froze up inside and I broke the crank in half beating and prying it apart just to save the block. Talk about something to make a guy mad :angry4:
 
Straighline I just thought of something else. I was in O'Reilley's the other day and noticed they have inspection cameras for about $100 (sale). If ya got the money that would save time and energy tearing an engine apart just to see the inside. Some people may balk at you tearing their engine down but if all you had to do was pull the spark plugs and distributor and stick the camera inside for a look they'd probably agree much easier.
 
I bought a "kick *** little hot rod" engine last summer, that the guy said was "all roller". First thing I did was pull the valve cover. It didn't even have roller rockers. I asked the guy what are the odds that it has roller lifters?!? Ended up getting the engine for $300. I sold all of the accessories that were hanging off it for $200. Ended up getting the roller block that I'm building my 408 out of for $100.

Bring tools. Tear into it as deep as the guy will let you. Pull a valve cover and see what it looks like. I wish I would have pulled the oil pan on the engine above, I might have gotten another $100 off of the price...

IMG_20120303_174155.jpg
 
i know you guys love the magnums because they have a ROLLER CAM OMG

however, the guy is just trying to get his car on the road. a 360 is a straight swap. there's a lot more involved putting the magnum in, that would be fine for a second project or something.

some info about the magnum swap:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=4703944
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=7033138

it involves a lot, like bringing over the computer and EFI system, or buying an intake that will allow a carb swap. etc. lots of snafus. probably needs electric fuel pump.

it's doable but something that takes time to gather up the right gear and cost a little money.

a 360 is a straight drop in. he would need to fresh up the carb probably and use his original oil pan from the 318 (truck pans are different). i think the rear mains are different so he may need a 360 car pan actually.
 
i know you guys love the magnums because they have a ROLLER CAM OMG

The engine in the post above yours is a roller LA engine not a Magnum, if you were talking to me??? I'm a LA guy all the way.
 
i know you guys love the magnums because they have a ROLLER CAM OMG

however, the guy is just trying to get his car on the road. a 360 is a straight swap. there's a lot more involved putting the magnum in, that would be fine for a second project or something.

some info about the magnum swap:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=4703944
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=7033138

it involves a lot, like bringing over the computer and EFI system, or buying an intake that will allow a carb swap. etc. lots of snafus. probably needs electric fuel pump.

it's doable but something that takes time to gather up the right gear and cost a little money.

a 360 is a straight drop in. he would need to fresh up the carb probably and use his original oil pan from the 318 (truck pans are different). i think the rear mains are different so he may need a 360 car pan actually.

Considering very few 360's came with a 4 barrel swapping the intake is a given in most cases. That only leaves installing the dist. out of his 318 and swapping the timing chain cover (also from his existing 318) and installing a fuel pump eccentric. So were talking $250 diff. if you buy an Eddy intake ($170 for a Chinese knockoff), but again most guys want a 4 barrel anyway and that's the big price diff. I'm not pushing a magnum swap but if he finds a magnum that's a better deal why not? It's not anywhere as close as hard as your making it out to be.
 
Hi Gents,

Here is what I found out today. The guy with the 89 engine is about 2 hours away. Said he will only let me pull a valve cover nothing else. Im leary to drive 2 hours one way and buy a engine based off just that. I have been finding a lot of engines from 75-78 with less than 80k on them. With one of them with under 60k.

Here is one other thing I didnt think about until today. My car is stripped down and getting a complete paint job this month. A fresh engine bay all pretty and shiny with a old, ugly, greasy engine in it. Not something Im to excited about.

I took someone elses advice and called a few engine re builders in the area. A lot of them have the blocks with all the machine work done but will not sell me just the block. Got talking to them about my current engine. Both shops were very close to the same price. They said that with my current engine as a core they could turn around and have a complete running engine to me in a week with a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty. Of course the cost is $1900 better than the $2200. If I wanted to toss in balancing, better cam, and porting then Im around $2400. Granted my heads are already ported but need a complete valve job. Because I dont have a core for a 360 its a additional 400 on top of the $2025 they want to build a 360 to stock. They claim the 318 will outperform the 360 if I spend the $2400.

So my headaches start again and the frustration is once again upon me. I think I may just have to bite the bullet and rebuild my 318.
 
So my headaches start again and the frustration is once again upon me. I think I may just have to bite the bullet and rebuild my 318.

There are a lot of things that should be considered, before sending a heap of cash to a machine shop, to have them go through the engine.

It seems to me that you have three problems-

-You need an engine that will perform well, should you spend money on it
-You don't want an "ugly" engine under the hood of your Scamp that has a new coat of paint on it
-You don't want to spend a lot of money.

First off, a gasket kit for your engine is cheap. You can clean up anything that you end up with and paint it, with a little elbow grease and some cheap engine paint, after it's been assembled on an engine stand.

A couple of scrapers, flathead screwdriver, some deep, wire brushes and some laquer thinner with a good pair of neoprene gloves will get the engine clean. Valve covers and oil pans can be cleaned very easily by hand with some paint stripper and 320 paper, if you don't want to spend any cash on new ones, sandblast them or have them dipped.

What these engine builders are telling you is how much labor they will be putting into your engine with machining, on top of parts with a modest upcharge, along with assembly work.

I guess my question for you is; how much are you willing to do, yourself?

I restore cars for a living. I've been through extremely low milage, numbers matching engines that I wouldn't dare touch with machine work and I've seen complete basket cases from things like the broken crank engine mentioned above, to a 6 pack 440 engine for the original car that was so rotten in the water jacket, that they needed epoxy repaired to keep from leaking near freeze plug openings, near casting numbers and fixed them, all the way down to the engines that I have in storage that are simply good enough to put back together with new seals.

The truth is, the more you do, the more money you are going to save. The work I've done on my girlfriend's Scamp, our shop would have charged somewhere in the neighborhood of $30K to do. I've got about 1/8 th of that into parts and materials, along with my time.

A 318 outperforming a 360 is speculative. Can it? Yes. Will it? It depends on what kind of engine you are comparing it to. I have seen junkyard 360 engines, stock J heads with a good cam, good torque converter and carb outperform 440 cars, because they knew what they were doing.

I guess what I'm trying to tell you, is that just because you skip on costly machine and assembly work, doesn't mean you can't have a nice engine in your Scamp.

This is a pic of the engine bay in my girlfriend's Scamp-

Scamp%20Engine%20bay%2003.jpg


The engine hasn't been out of the bay since it was in Detroit. :) I'm in the process of doing a head, intake and carb swap, soon. Right now, I'm getting the parts prepped mechanically and cosmetically, but I won't pull this engine until the rings no longer seal.

The reason being, I see no point in a cruiser/ driver with mild performance to waste a good cylinder wall, waste money and waste time for something that gets it done without any work at all. This engine did smoke on deceleration when I bought it, nice and ugly, but a cheap set of valve stem seals that replaced the chunks of seals left in the springs cleaned that up, no problem.

If you went and looked at that 360 that is two hours away, you can always enquire about it's history. If someone knows the mileage, they likely know why it was pulled or what happened to the vehicle/ where the engine came from. If you can crank the engine and listen for compression, it cycles ok and they know some history on the engine, The price on that 89 is a very good start for an engine, for the same money as what the machine shops want to build your 318, would kick it's *** up and down the street all day long, if you put the money into good parts instead of assembly and machine work.

Again, though, it all depends on how much of this you want to take on, yourself.
 
Dave thank you for your input once again.

I had a long talk with the GF about the engine. She read your post and thought you had some very good info. Im not afraid of the hard work to clean up an engine and that is something I certainly will consider.

I get stuck with making a decision when it comes to the used engine because I hate doing things half assed. If I buy a used engine such as that 89 and Im opening it up to look at it and clean it, then see something that doesnt look right, I want it corrected. So Im taking a risk with a used engine and could be out the $600 and still need it freshened up.

After a talk with the GF Im leaning towards spending the money on a rebuilt. I called up that Carolina Machine Engines and spoke with them. I also did research online and didnt see any complaints and checked with BBB. They have a good rating. There price is very low which made me question the parts they use but they use name brand stuff and not Chinese crap. They charge $250 for new engine delivery and my core returned.

One option I was considering was an OEM engine and can pick up a 318 long block for $1200 or a block assembly for $700. I was considering the block assembly because then I could pick up some heads from Hughes Engines a Comp XE268 Cam and lifters and Comp 901 springs. Maybe some pushrods. I believe I can reuse my rocker assembly.

Otherwise I can upgrade to the 360 for $1300 for a long block or $800 for a block assembly. Also $275 for a core upcharge since Im going from a 318 to a 360. Doing the same things as above for the add ons.

Now what are your opinions as for building the rest of the engine myself. I have taken apart engines and re-gasketed them. I have not however ever installed new components. Will I have issues setting up the valve train or should everything just install and run? Will I be able to use my 318 intake on a 360 engine?


I think Im at the point of being ok with a entire new engine and not risking going with something I really have no idea about from someone trying to get rid of there engine. So its either by a place like Carolina Engines where I can buy some performance upgrades or a local machine shop with no upgrades. Local machine shop has 3 year warranty. Carolina also does but costs $150. Either way I will be spending around 2k. Is that 2k I should spend on a 318 or spend some extra and go to a 360. Also what about balancing the engine, necessary? So please give me your opinions on my thoughts for above. Pro's, Con's, Concerns.
 
I personally have not had good luck with mass rebuilders. As an ASE Master I isntalled a lot of "rebuilt" engines. Most were designed to last just through the warranty. That's not to demean CME - I went to the site and it's hard to gage a mass rebuilder or a local shop that's got a lot of motivation. IMO - even given the fact that they do a lot of work, the prices are too good to be true. I'd look for references from customers that have the race and street/strip engines.
My own feelings have always been to be in control of parts choice and machining choices, and to have a face to go get in if there was some reason to later. If you buy one, go bigger.
In terms of balancing - IMO - yes. Every engine I build gets internally balanced. It's the best way to do it, the results are feelable, and the payback is in power, lifespan, and efficiency.
 
I personally have not had good luck with mass rebuilders. As an ASE Master I isntalled a lot of "rebuilt" engines. Most were designed to last just through the warranty. That's not to demean CME - I went to the site and it's hard to gage a mass rebuilder or a local shop that's got a lot of motivation. IMO - even given the fact that they do a lot of work, the prices are too good to be true. I'd look for references from customers that have the race and street/strip engines.
My own feelings have always been to be in control of parts choice and machining choices, and to have a face to go get in if there was some reason to later. If you buy one, go bigger.
In terms of balancing - IMO - yes. Every engine I build gets internally balanced. It's the best way to do it, the results are feelable, and the payback is in power, lifespan, and efficiency.


I feel the same way with the whole you get what you pay for. Its really is sticking in my mind. I think Im going to use the local engine builder since they have been great talking to me and all my questions. Not to mention if I do have a issue with the engine I can get the car to them and not having to try to get a issue delt with over the phone.

I would love to put the engine together myself. I just dont trust myself enough to make sure that its going to be up to standards. I totally understand what was said about paying a shop labor time and mark up on having them build it. They will warranty it for 3 years, myself if I mess it up and install something wrong, dont get the right push rods or who knows what, it could mean another tear down.

I know the sticker shock of $2200 for the original engine shop had me frustrated and upset. Well still does actually. Now that I have had all these great opinions and helpful suggestions I think Im just going to bite the bullet and have it all done for me. For just a little bit more cash than the $2200 I can have a rebuilt engine with the upgrades I want. Ok minus the KB pistons. That one is just going to have to wait.

Here is my current thought for the engine

318
Eddy Performer Intake and 600CFM carb
Comp XE268 Cam, lifters and springs,
Balanced
302 heads ported (shop thinks they have a set) If not any other heads I should ask for? Otherwise I have stock heads that are already ported.

Any other suggestions or thoughts to wake up a 318? Also what HP did a stock 318 make? Any ideas what it may make after?
 
Well looks like you were given a lot of options. But the best way for you is a 318 out of a Salvage yard . the lower the miles the better. and make sure it is clean under the valve covers.

The reason I say 318 is your oil pan and all your parts will bolt back on . With a 360 you will be hunting for many parts to bolt it up you wont have. You can put your Cam , fresh Heads , Lifters if kept in order. and your intake on the motor you buy. without a cash flow you don't want to convert to a 360. they are a different animal and require more parts to install where a 318 came out. with out this knowledge you will get in over your head. Just some friendly advise from someone who has corrected many 318 - 360 installs for guys who didn't know. Your oil pan won't fit a 360 either. Nor the intake if you have a 318 intake port size. Just some things you wouldn't know to look for. And there is more such as balancing I won't get into. Steve
 
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