Sometimes you hate them...

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SGGDuster

SGGDuster

Dreaming of Burnt Rubber
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Okay, on my way to school this morning, I had to make an abrupt stop to keep from breaking the law and my engine went insane. It dropped real low RPMs then died on me. It took a bit to start it back up and once I did it felt like a cylinder was dead. The car had absolutely no power down low and was running extremely rough. Acceleration was almost non existant. When I got into the higher RPMs it smoothed out a little and was slightly more responsive. I also need to mention it was much louder than usual. After school, I started removing plug wires one at a time to try and figure out which cylinder was acting up. None of them were dead, but I went ahead and replaced the plugs. For a split second when I let off the gas, the car picks up a little bit. The exhaust doesn't smeel like there's a bunch of unburned fuel spewing out, but it doesn't smell normal. My dad said there was some black smoke when I took off from 1st gear and blue smoke on the shifts.

I think I've included all the symptoms, anyone have any sort of experience with this or just a suggestion? I and the three other car guys I know are stumped.
 
i've seen timing chains jump from accelloration to sudden
deccelloration and continue to run.
i've also seen cranks break and bearings fail
but mostly in standard shift cars being thrashed in low gear. :sad2:
i don't know what you drive, hope thats not the case for you.
good luck longarm
 
The brakes on my car are just good 'ole manual master cylinder powered brakes. I kind of forgot to mention the engine involved... It's a 318 in a 74 Duster. The engine has 115,000 miles on it and has been well taken care of (regular oil changes, never over heated). Other than running a bit rich, it's been a wonderful engine. I somehow popped a plug wire off one time while driving, and it feels a lot like it did then. That timing chain sounds like it could be the problem, it does feel like the timing is way out of whack. The car is a floor 3 speed, however, but I know it was in neutral when I stopped so I don't think anything crank/bearing wise got trashed.

Thanks for the input guys, anyone else have anymore tips?I'd like to hear everything you all think could be the problem so I can run through as much myself as possible. It'd be great if I didn't have to take it somewhere to get the problem fixed.
 
did you depress the clutch during this stop? or did you just hit the brakes?
this could be a factor in the timing chain jumping, however i agree it's still a likely issue. especially if the stock timing set is still in use.
 
RedlineDuster said:
did you depress the clutch during this stop? or did you just hit the brakes?
this could be a factor in the timing chain jumping, however i agree it's still a likely issue. especially if the stock timing set is still in use.
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Odds are, I just bumped the stick into neutral to stop, it's what I usually do. I know the car was not in gear when I stopped, but could the clutch being engaged or disengaged have an effect?

Thanks Redline and Longarm
 
I've heard of the floats going bonkers, but I set the level properly a few months ago. I highly doubt the stop could have readjusted them for me, though. The carb is the first thing I'm going to check out. Too bad I don't have a spare one :thumblef: sitting around that I can slap on there just to eliminate a potential problem.
 
have you started checking stuff yet? Start with the carb and then ck the timing and make sure it is not jumpy
Well good luck and let us know how it goes
 
SGGDuster said:
Odds are, I just bumped the stick into neutral to stop, it's what I usually do. I know the car was not in gear when I stopped, but could the clutch being engaged or disengaged have an effect?

Thanks Redline and Longarm
Click to expand...

As Longarm pointed out if the engine came to an abrupt reduced speed the timing could have jumped. Depressing the clutch, bumping the trans ouf gear would probably not slow the engine down as fast as if you had just hit the brakes. With the trans in gear and clutch pedal released the engine is forced to slow down as fast as the tires.

The carb float idea is another good one to check out too.
 
If the timing has jumped, just get #1 up on compression ( blows your finger out of the plug hole and balancer is at 0 on the timing mark) and see where the rotor is pointing on cap. You can also check for chain slop by removing dist cap and slowly turning the crank clockwise with a socket until you see the rotor move -- then turn back counter-clockwise and see how far the crank has to turn before the rotor moves in the other direction. More than 5 or 6 degrees means a sloppy chain. If it is bad enough to jump, I would expect a good bit of movement.
 
With the milage, it's agood bet the chain has a lot of wear..but I doubt it's enough to jump it...I would also look into the carb..many a carb has small piles of "crud" that got thru the filter and build up over time. A quick panic stop can send these floating all over, and they will get sucked into all the passages. You also could have gotten something lodged in an air bleed hole too. How much fuel was in the tank? Could have dislodged something there too...I'd replace the fuel filter, and toss a rebuild kit at the carb, and check for the jumped chain.
 
moper said:
With the milage, it's agood bet the chain has a lot of wear..but I doubt it's enough to jump it...I would also look into the carb..many a carb has small piles of "crud" that got thru the filter and build up over time. A quick panic stop can send these floating all over, and they will get sucked into all the passages. You also could have gotten something lodged in an air bleed hole too. How much fuel was in the tank? Could have dislodged something there too...I'd replace the fuel filter, and toss a rebuild kit at the carb, and check for the jumped chain.
Click to expand...

I'll yank the carb and look into it, I disassembled it and cleaned it a while back when we changed the fuel pump/lines/filter and I know the crud you're talking about. There was about 2 gallons in the tank at the time, maybe less. We've run it a good deal, between checking the cylinders for fire and driving it home, so it seems like it qould have pushed through whatever junk had it messed up...
 
After checking the carb, it you find nothing wrong the next step like the guys say is the timing chain. Another way of checking the chain is pull your fuel pump and reach into the open hole on the side of the chain case and just past the inner corner you'll be able to feel the chain. Using a socket on the end of the crank turn the crank in one direction and then the other so that you put all the chain slack on the chain case open hole side. Now with your finger you'll be feeling all the slack of the chain and there should be no more than 1/4 to 3/8 inch. Any more than that and you could have jumped a tooth. :evil2:
 
another theory you may like to check is if your plugs actualy fire when there is cylinderpreasure if it feels like there is one or two cylinders not firing i would gues there is a bad sparkplug cable or a bad sparkplug they can sometimes seem to work until there is cylinderpreasure wich makes density of the airfuelmixture higher when compresing and that may bee enough to put out your spark on a plug or cable that seems to work ok when testing them without any load... hard to explain but its my gues..
 
Iv'e had the same problem before. It was caused by all of the excess gass running out of the vents straight down the throat of a closed carb and basically flooded it out. Spit and sputtered still ran just not clean, changed plugs, reset the floats after rebuilding the carb, and finding small particles had plugged the jets other orfices, caused when all the crap slammed from the back of the carb straight into the jets etc.. blow out all of the little tiny tiny holes with compressed air not just soak it i.e. both directions. And check your air filter to make sure it didn't get soaked with gas also.
 
Sounds like a carb problem. But if you suspect the timing chain has jumped, you can check it without removing the timing cover.

1st. Ignition timing will be way off. Ignition timing runs off the cam.

2nd. If ignition timing is off, pull the valve cover for #1 cylinder. Put the dampner on TDC. If the cylinder is on the compression stroke rotate 360* so your on TDC exhaust stroke or pull the other valve cover off for the #6 cylinder (1 8436 572) Now, while observing the rockers, move the crank about 20* for and aft of TDC. You should see both rockers for that cylinder move. If the chain has jumped even 1 tooth, only 1 rocker will move.

But it sounds like a flooded carb.
 
demon seed said:
After checking the carb, it you find nothing wrong the next step like the guys say is the timing chain. Another way of checking the chain is pull your fuel pump and reach into the open hole on the side of the chain case and just past the inner corner you'll be able to feel the chain. Using a socket on the end of the crank turn the crank in one direction and then the other so that you put all the chain slack on the chain case open hole side. Now with your finger you'll be feeling all the slack of the chain and there should be no more than 1/4 to 3/8 inch. Any more than that and you could have jumped a tooth. :evil2:
Click to expand...


ya know, learn something new every day...lol...I've never thought about that. THANKS!!
 
moper said:
ya know, learn something new every day...lol...I've never thought about that. THANKS!!
Click to expand...

Hey I'm 50 and been into Mopars since I was 16 and I'm still learning new things about these car especially since this is my first A body.

My moto "eyes open".
 
Exact same thing happened to my 74 Fury's 360 back when I was in college. Panic stop with 120,000 miles on it. Bang, there went the timing chain. Except mine jumped 3 notches and wouldn't even run at all. Me and my buddy got to push that hulk back to his house. Lucky it was only a block. Man that sucker was heavy!!!
 
well it's not the Carburetor, so it is as suspected; timing chain. I've decided that I am going to replace the waterpump, oil pan, and possibly the cam while I have it all off the engine. The cam, of course, can be discussed elsewhere, but does anybody have a recommendation on the oil pan and waterpump as far as suppliers go? I'll probably go Mancini, but I wasn't real impressed with them when I bought my leaf springs.
 
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