speedmaster stuff pulled from Summit racing shelves

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Oh My. Don't ever talk about anything that affects every day life, even if it's in the slightest. :lol:
 
fishmens67 said:
I heard the barge that ran into the bridge was loaded with Seadblaster parts from the Summit warehouse headed back to China.
Anyone else hear that. lol
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I heard the biggest of the big Girls Of Walmart. Still trying to find scales heavy enough to weigh the ship.
 
If each and everyone of us would start today we could make a statement. Stop buying gasoline because most of it is imported, no cell phones, TV’s computers, washers and driers, go back to hand washing dishes, making out own clothes and shoes. A lot of our meat is imported so let’s cut that out. No aftermarket rods, or cranks. Imported steel has been copied from ATI steel where I worked. We also we’re in business with Russia making titanium. So what do you say, let’s do this.
 
Phreakish said:
No they won't. Bare minimum it would be a million dollars for him to pursue a suit, and that's before discovery and trial. Been down that road, there's nothing to gain if you can't prove losses of at least a few tens of millions.
Even if some lawyer took it pro bono speedmaster would just change their name, again, and avoid liability, again.
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If there were no legal implications, why would SM and Summit stop suddenly selling them? Out of the goodness of their heart?? Doubtful.
 
mopowers said:
If there were no legal implications, why would SM and Summit stop suddenly selling them? Out of the goodness of their heart?? Doubtful.
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Has nothing to do with a suit from the original supplier. He's screwed no matter what.
That doesn't mean customers wouldn't inundate summit with returns and even returns of spurious origin, or begin dragging their name. It's a calculated move. Goodness of heart has nothing to do with it.

Besides, Summit probably has more to do with the revenue trajectory of speedmaster than most suppliers. In 2-5 years I bet 2/3 of the knockoff junk sm sells will pop up under summit's in-house brands, just like their knock off distributors and knock off msd boxes.
 
pittsburghracer said:
If each and everyone of us would start today we could make a statement. Stop buying gasoline because most of it is imported, no cell phones, TV’s computers, washers and driers, go back to hand washing dishes, making out own clothes and shoes. A lot of our meat is imported so let’s cut that out. No aftermarket rods, or cranks. Imported steel has been copied from ATI steel where I worked. We also we’re in business with Russia making titanium. So what do you say, let’s do this.
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Nothing wrong with imports in most cases.
It's when the money goes directly to a political adversary. Chinese companies aren't mom and pop shops, they're propped up by and run at the behest of an adversarial government which is... not good.
Pretty much any other government is better to deal with, and we should prioritize dealing with them over china. At least that's how I see it.
 
Phreakish said:
Has nothing to do with a suit from the original supplier. He's screwed no matter what.
That doesn't mean customers wouldn't inundate summit with returns and even returns of spurious origin, or begin dragging their name. It's a calculated move. Goodness of heart has nothing to do with it.

Besides, Summit probably has more to do with the revenue trajectory of speedmaster than most suppliers. In 2-5 years I bet 2/3 of the knockoff junk sm sells will pop up under summit's in-house brands, just like their knock off distributors and knock off msd boxes.
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I was referring mostly to SM. They're the main culprit in my opinion. Good on Summit for cutting ties.
 
Could it be Summit was getting complaints on the valve body and returns, now they send it to Broader and that's when the s---t hit the fan. Now, Broader realizes what has happened and knowing he doesn't sell to Summit opened the can of worms . Summit may not have realized what Speedmaster was doing, knocking off Broader's valve body. Still a lot of info we don't know and we try to speculate what may have happened, and we are completely wrong.
 
mopowers said:
I was referring mostly to SM. They're the main culprit in my opinion. Good on Summit for cutting ties.
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I don't disagree. Good on Summit, they could have stopped at only pulling things they knew to be illicit. But we'll see if they add stuff back later, that will be the real signal they give a damn.
 
tonysrt said:
Could it be Summit was getting complaints on the valve body and returns, now they send it to Broader and that's when the s---t hit the fan. Now, Broader realizes what has happened and knowing he doesn't sell to Summit opened the can of worms . Summit may not have realized what Speedmaster was doing, knocking off Broader's valve body. Still a lot of info we don't know and we try to speculate what may have happened, and we are completely wrong.
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Knowingly violating IP laws is a much eaiser prosecution. It's still not at all cheap though, so the juice has to be worth the squeeze. Summit stopping the sales will basically immunize any claims of knowingly selling counterfeit items that people would have and summit can sit back and point complaintants toward speedmaster. Since there's at least one confirmed counterfeit, it would be reasonable to assume that other speedmaster parts are also counterfeit which is likely why they pulled everything. It's cya.

Knowing how counterfeit stuff usually comes about, my guess is that someone at summit took it upon themselves (probably outside the office, for plausible deniability) to suggest to speedmaster to make an item "just like" the one in question but the guy in China they sent the sample to wasn't told to remove the logo. Counterfeits are built to demand, not just randomly pursued. I've seen this exact situation play out a few dozen times, and the story is always close to the above. Sometimes the instigator is just trying to get a freebie from the Chinese vendors by helping them, sometimes the instigator gets them for himself to resell on ebay. In the worst instances the counterfeit parts go into legit boxes and legit parts are stolen and sold off for half price on ebay, often as "blems", "seconds", or "surplus".
 
pittsburghracer said:
Well I have a set of K1 rods and two sets of Molnar rods and a couple Chinese cranks so
Let’s start tomorrow.
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Lets start tomorrow by telling everyone what parts are made start to finish right here in the USA.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Gonna be a short list.
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And unnecessary. No reason to avoid imports altogether. Lots of excellent stuff comes out of other countries who aren't strategic enemies and who aren't making direct copies of other people's hard development work. Most aren't making Mopar parts though, LOL.
 
I wish people would use their God given brains so they could understand patent rights. Patents protect products for X amount of years. Then after that time others are allowed to improve those products and offer improvements at lower prices. Just think if an antibiotic could never be copied and improved. How about the fords of early years. We would all be out there manning a hand crank to start our ford. Nothing could ever be refined. Now I don’t know exactly what Speedmaster was thinking putting the guys name on those valve bodies. That was 110% wrong. Now didn’t Edelbrock basically copy a stock Mopar head and make improvements to it. Hmmmmm. I think they did. Exhaust bolts up, manifolds bolt up, rockers bolt up. Hmmmmmm yep-we-reee
 
I am thinking that the Eddy head is cast in China as well.
 
pittsburghracer said:
I wish people would use their God given brains so they could understand patent rights. Patents protect products for X amount of years. Then after that time others are allowed to improve those products and offer improvements at lower prices. Just think if an antibiotic could never be copied and improved. How about the fords of early years. We would all be out there manning a hand crank to start our ford. Nothing could ever be refined. Now I don’t know exactly what Speedmaster was thinking putting the guys name on those valve bodies. That was 110% wrong. Now didn’t Edelbrock basically copy a stock Mopar head and make improvements to it. Hmmmmm. I think they did. Exhaust bolts up, manifolds bolt up, rockers bolt up. Hmmmmmm yep-we-reee
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I've got a few dozen patents. Been through lots of litigation. Even people who think they understand them often don't and rarely will even two patent attorneys agree on anything. Patents also aren't cheap, and good ones keep costing money.
Last I checked, Edelbrock didn't make iron heads and alum heads are a completely different design due to strength and material property differences. Those differences are mostly internal, but enough to not be a direct copy. Being compatible with bolt on stuff isn't the end all when it comes to IP.
Sometimes patents protect a design, sometimes it's a specific architecture, sometimes it's a process. It all depends on the art being claimed.
The purpose of a patent is to teach the public the art in exchange for the sole right to produce or license that art for a period of time (usually 20 years).
Improvements can be patented also, but are prosecuted differently and having a patent on an improvement doesn't give one license to the original art.
Trademark is an entirely different even if related matter.
Even when the patent is expired and it's legal to copy it, personally I still find it distasteful. There's always a way to improve any product which makes a direct copy a super lazy effort. Worse, most knock offs are a step backwards in terms of quality.
 
Phreakish said:
I've got a few dozen patents. Been through lots of litigation. Even people who think they understand them often don't and rarely will even two patent attorneys agree on anything. Patents also aren't cheap, and good ones keep costing money.
Last I checked, Edelbrock didn't make iron heads and alum heads are a completely different design due to strength and material property differences. Those differences are mostly internal, but enough to not be a direct copy. Being compatible with bolt on stuff isn't the end all when it comes to IP.
Sometimes patents protect a design, sometimes it's a specific architecture, sometimes it's a process. It all depends on the art being claimed.
The purpose of a patent is to teach the public the art in exchange for the sole right to produce or license that art for a period of time (usually 20 years).
Improvements can be patented also, but are prosecuted differently and having a patent on an improvement doesn't give one license to the original art.
Trademark is an entirely different even if related matter.
Even when the patent is expired and it's legal to copy it, personally I still find it distasteful. There's always a way to improve any product which makes a direct copy a super lazy effort. Worse, most knock offs are a step backwards in terms of quality.
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Since you seem to have a good understanding of patient laws you know the the Mopar Edelbrock rpm heads have been out for a long long time. Are they protected forever from a company like Speedmaster that come along and copies a copy of a stock head that has been cast in aluminum instead of cast iron like a stock head.
 
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