SS Dana Axle?
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SSing
Well-Known Member
This is funny. If I only could speak you language better... but I try this.
Go to your garage and measure A and B. They are equally wide on your car. On this car, not... Acctually B seems wider than it is in reallity, since it is closer to the camera.
Cut on this Hurst Cuda starts somewhere at the upper arrow and down to arrow D.
If you lengthen the line C it will end up at point D. On your car, you have an inch or 3/4 of an inch, to the edge of where the wheel well ends. What we call front lower lip. The part that has been cut out on this Barracuda...
I know your a smart guy, or I would´t have tried this. Well you may laugh, but you cant laugh away facts...
Go to your garage and measure A and B. They are equally wide on your car. On this car, not... Acctually B seems wider than it is in reallity, since it is closer to the camera.
Cut on this Hurst Cuda starts somewhere at the upper arrow and down to arrow D.
If you lengthen the line C it will end up at point D. On your car, you have an inch or 3/4 of an inch, to the edge of where the wheel well ends. What we call front lower lip. The part that has been cut out on this Barracuda...
I know your a smart guy, or I would´t have tried this. Well you may laugh, but you cant laugh away facts...
autoxcuda
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SSing
Well-Known Member
Sorry autoxcuda, but this is not a verification as I see it, since it´s not a car in primer, or at least you have a good story to back it up. What rear axle is that btw? I mean I believe what you say, but we are tyring to confirme things here.
Well, I can only hope Mark J steps forward and settle this once and for all. I know he checks every Forum and FB group that might have any info related to the ´68 SS Hemi´s. He should know, no doubt... He can also confirm the use of the ´67 axle. Yes, Mark is the only person that I go with. What he says, I listen to...
Sorry, but no pics. I´m saving them for my booklet...
SSing
Well-Known Member
“You´re correct”… ?? nice try, pal… Can´t believe you spend time trying to set up a fellow Forum member, with a photo like that… Didn´t work out very well… uuhh…
You obviously think car in primer and your pic is taken from same angle… o well…
Ok, so I can only hope Mark J sees this and explain it like it is.
You obviously think car in primer and your pic is taken from same angle… o well…
Ok, so I can only hope Mark J sees this and explain it like it is.
ns1rm21
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I said I was not going to respond but I feel that this is very note worthy. I want others (appreciated or not) to benefit from my findings. I’ll see if I can use a language that everybody can understand. (I only say this because of the above comments)
I had a 1:54 minute conversation with Mark Janaky a few nights ago. For those of you that don’t know Mark he is one of the leading experts on BO and LO cars.
Subject matter and question:
Did Hurst modify the outer wheel opening of the BO Barracuda?
Mark has talked to many people over the years and had seen many cars first hand. Mark confirms that there is no documented evidence that Hurst modified the outer wheel opening on these cars. He talked to two gentleman who’s job was to cut open the Darts wheel openings and when asked “did you modified the Barracudas as well?” Both there reply’s were “No”. I talked to a gentleman years ago (sorry but I don’t remember his name) and he said that he talked to a person that did the modification to the Darts and he too also said that only the Darts were modified.
HOWEVER Mark did say “I’m not sure I believe that” Refereeing to the question of did Hurst modify he wheel opening. Mark said it seemed funny that many of these cars were altered in the front area but after years of research NO PROOF WAS FOUND.
Mark thinks that MAYBE there was an unofficial request by somebody with power to “rework” the front wheel well opening but in all these years he can’t prove this. Mark also said ( and I heard this as well ) the Hurst assembly plant was not a “assembly line atmosphere “...far from it. Employees came and went, they would jump from car to car to keep work flowing but were limited on what they could do because of limited parts supplies. These cars were assembled in a makeshift warehouse that from one month to the next had no idea what was going to be worked on. One month there working on Taxi cabs for New York and the next month there working on race cars. Another piece of info I heard is it only took 20 minutes per side to modify the Darts 1/4 panels.
One “thing” that did come up in our conversation and we both confirmed it was the racers would add spacers between the front hanger and the front hanger body mount and this would move the tire back for more tire clearance BETWEEN THE FRONT OF THE TIRE AND THE FRONT OF THE WHEEL WELL OPENING......the racers did this... Proof can be seen of this in many old photos where the tire looks more centered in the wheel well.
FOR ME.... the final answer to this question of “Did Hurst modify the wheel opening on the Barracuda?” My answer is, There is no documented proof that Hurst modified the wheel opening. The End.
P.S.........one more thing. I reached out to Jim Schild and he too agreed that there is no proof that Hurst modified the wheel opening.
Second question that came up. What were the specifications of the rear Differential as used on the BO and LO cars?
There was a good working relationship between Chrysler and Dana so custom parts were only a phone call away. For sake of the conversation I’m only referring to the Dana 60 differential. Bob Tarozzi figured out that he needed a diff that housed 4:88 gears, spring pads positions at 2.5 degrees and 6.00 degrees, all right hand studs and 10” drum brakes. This is not an off the shelf differential so one would have to be made. With all that being said here is what I BELIEVE happened. While all this was happening Bob was still figuring out what offset of rear wheel he was going to use. The choice was a 1.25” or 1.73” positive offset. Because of time and money Bob went with a 1.25” positive rim. With the wheels in place under the car a phone call to Dana Corp and a differential was made.. Was it a 1967 or a 1968 B body differential? It was neither. Did it share the same flange to flange measures of a 1967 or a 1968?. Not sure but I will say this. I have seen a picture of a original Hemi Dart with an 8 3/4” and there was a “B” on the back end of it. This indicates it’s for a “B” body but they did this for many years...1966 on up. When I asked Mark about this subject he is unclear what diff was used and what year. He thinks maybe a 1967 flange to flange housing ONLY because of the time frame when all this was happening.....Dec 4th 1967
Mr. SSing, if I remember correctly your building a “day 2” clone. On your car I would definitely trim the leading edge of the wheel well. You would be wrong no to. As for me I BELIEVE. I would be wrong if I DID trim the leading edge.
Ok, now I’m done commenting on this.
I had a 1:54 minute conversation with Mark Janaky a few nights ago. For those of you that don’t know Mark he is one of the leading experts on BO and LO cars.
Subject matter and question:
Did Hurst modify the outer wheel opening of the BO Barracuda?
Mark has talked to many people over the years and had seen many cars first hand. Mark confirms that there is no documented evidence that Hurst modified the outer wheel opening on these cars. He talked to two gentleman who’s job was to cut open the Darts wheel openings and when asked “did you modified the Barracudas as well?” Both there reply’s were “No”. I talked to a gentleman years ago (sorry but I don’t remember his name) and he said that he talked to a person that did the modification to the Darts and he too also said that only the Darts were modified.
HOWEVER Mark did say “I’m not sure I believe that” Refereeing to the question of did Hurst modify he wheel opening. Mark said it seemed funny that many of these cars were altered in the front area but after years of research NO PROOF WAS FOUND.
Mark thinks that MAYBE there was an unofficial request by somebody with power to “rework” the front wheel well opening but in all these years he can’t prove this. Mark also said ( and I heard this as well ) the Hurst assembly plant was not a “assembly line atmosphere “...far from it. Employees came and went, they would jump from car to car to keep work flowing but were limited on what they could do because of limited parts supplies. These cars were assembled in a makeshift warehouse that from one month to the next had no idea what was going to be worked on. One month there working on Taxi cabs for New York and the next month there working on race cars. Another piece of info I heard is it only took 20 minutes per side to modify the Darts 1/4 panels.
One “thing” that did come up in our conversation and we both confirmed it was the racers would add spacers between the front hanger and the front hanger body mount and this would move the tire back for more tire clearance BETWEEN THE FRONT OF THE TIRE AND THE FRONT OF THE WHEEL WELL OPENING......the racers did this... Proof can be seen of this in many old photos where the tire looks more centered in the wheel well.
FOR ME.... the final answer to this question of “Did Hurst modify the wheel opening on the Barracuda?” My answer is, There is no documented proof that Hurst modified the wheel opening. The End.
P.S.........one more thing. I reached out to Jim Schild and he too agreed that there is no proof that Hurst modified the wheel opening.
Second question that came up. What were the specifications of the rear Differential as used on the BO and LO cars?
There was a good working relationship between Chrysler and Dana so custom parts were only a phone call away. For sake of the conversation I’m only referring to the Dana 60 differential. Bob Tarozzi figured out that he needed a diff that housed 4:88 gears, spring pads positions at 2.5 degrees and 6.00 degrees, all right hand studs and 10” drum brakes. This is not an off the shelf differential so one would have to be made. With all that being said here is what I BELIEVE happened. While all this was happening Bob was still figuring out what offset of rear wheel he was going to use. The choice was a 1.25” or 1.73” positive offset. Because of time and money Bob went with a 1.25” positive rim. With the wheels in place under the car a phone call to Dana Corp and a differential was made.. Was it a 1967 or a 1968 B body differential? It was neither. Did it share the same flange to flange measures of a 1967 or a 1968?. Not sure but I will say this. I have seen a picture of a original Hemi Dart with an 8 3/4” and there was a “B” on the back end of it. This indicates it’s for a “B” body but they did this for many years...1966 on up. When I asked Mark about this subject he is unclear what diff was used and what year. He thinks maybe a 1967 flange to flange housing ONLY because of the time frame when all this was happening.....Dec 4th 1967
Mr. SSing, if I remember correctly your building a “day 2” clone. On your car I would definitely trim the leading edge of the wheel well. You would be wrong no to. As for me I BELIEVE. I would be wrong if I DID trim the leading edge.
Ok, now I’m done commenting on this.
SSing
Well-Known Member
Well been away for a while, but yes ok, is all i can say. Just realizing we are discussing two different things.
Paperwork is interesting, but cars on the Woodward shipping yard is more interesting to me.
And so... I have not found one picture of a Barracuda with a production car rear wheel well. I mean there is not one single pic of one, on the entire www.
Also I have many car magazine articles from 1968-69 featuring these cars, and never, not once, anything is mentioned about new owner had to modify rear ww.
The wellknown article about Sox n Martin putting their first cuda together, included...
Heaviest in my scale pan though, is pictures of the Mule Car, when testing on the West Cost early 1968.
If you know what to look for you can clearly see lower front lip cut, but not only this, front lower tube has also been partly cut. Rear lower tube lip ( not pictured ) may have been hammered some, I don´t know if this was done.
The Mule Car is usually not a good car as a reference, and that is true when it comes to the engine compartment and interior, but to think car was taken to test suspension and handling, witch very much includes tires, and than deliver a car with a note, " you have to modiefy rear wheel well your self" is totally insane...
Two pics below, like I say, if you know what to look for, show Test Car and an unmodified front part of the wheel well.
Last pic showing what was cut out. Front lower lip and part of wheel tube inside of wheel well.
Paperwork is interesting, but cars on the Woodward shipping yard is more interesting to me.
And so... I have not found one picture of a Barracuda with a production car rear wheel well. I mean there is not one single pic of one, on the entire www.
Also I have many car magazine articles from 1968-69 featuring these cars, and never, not once, anything is mentioned about new owner had to modify rear ww.
The wellknown article about Sox n Martin putting their first cuda together, included...
Heaviest in my scale pan though, is pictures of the Mule Car, when testing on the West Cost early 1968.
If you know what to look for you can clearly see lower front lip cut, but not only this, front lower tube has also been partly cut. Rear lower tube lip ( not pictured ) may have been hammered some, I don´t know if this was done.
The Mule Car is usually not a good car as a reference, and that is true when it comes to the engine compartment and interior, but to think car was taken to test suspension and handling, witch very much includes tires, and than deliver a car with a note, " you have to modiefy rear wheel well your self" is totally insane...
Two pics below, like I say, if you know what to look for, show Test Car and an unmodified front part of the wheel well.
Last pic showing what was cut out. Front lower lip and part of wheel tube inside of wheel well.
hemicop
Well-Known Member
From what I've seen & recall from several articles the Barracudas were not modified from Hurst. Now grant it, the "mule car", S&M, and several others may suggest they were but keep in mind these weren't "complete" cars when shipped & Mopar themselves told the buyers so. And a friend that worked at the Hurst factory mentioned this while helping me with my Dart---which we all know were DEFINITELY cut. It stands to reason that between multiple runs of these cars, rules, individual owner's skills and just progression of the class the owners would trim them as necessary.
SSing
Well-Known Member
When mentioning a plates between front spring hangers and body, to move the rear axle further back and use bigger tires, I come to think of the offset front spring hanger these cars had. Although moving rear axle in some of the divisions and classes maybe, this really is not what you want to do on a race car like this. To put more weight in front of the rear axle.
This maybe is, why Chrysler made this offset front spring hanger, so to say, a bit shorter than the OME hanger bracket. More than a quarter of an inch. Some 7mm whatever this is in inches.
Now, was this offset hanger bracket this way, to compensate for a reinforcement plate, (on the Hemi A-Body) like some of the Hemi B-Body had?
Or... did Chrysler make a smart move, to gain some Drag Race Car Technology advantages, by moving rear axle forward 7mm?
Pics below show a comparation between the hangers I´m talking about and a pic of a plate welded to the front spring hanger mount, of a B-Body Hemi. (Photo from Graveyard Carz)
So, if not front lower lip of the wheel well (of the Barracudas) had been cut, this plate, that some claim were used, has to be well over an inch thick.
Well, I believe it, when I see a picture of a ´68 SS/B Barracuda, with rear wheels way off center of wheel well.
I like picture better than words...
This maybe is, why Chrysler made this offset front spring hanger, so to say, a bit shorter than the OME hanger bracket. More than a quarter of an inch. Some 7mm whatever this is in inches.
Now, was this offset hanger bracket this way, to compensate for a reinforcement plate, (on the Hemi A-Body) like some of the Hemi B-Body had?
Or... did Chrysler make a smart move, to gain some Drag Race Car Technology advantages, by moving rear axle forward 7mm?
Pics below show a comparation between the hangers I´m talking about and a pic of a plate welded to the front spring hanger mount, of a B-Body Hemi. (Photo from Graveyard Carz)
So, if not front lower lip of the wheel well (of the Barracudas) had been cut, this plate, that some claim were used, has to be well over an inch thick.
Well, I believe it, when I see a picture of a ´68 SS/B Barracuda, with rear wheels way off center of wheel well.
I like picture better than words...
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