SS springs & sliders...

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I noticed that some of the sliders have a bit of an angle to put the slot in line with the spring If I notch them in.... and put a slight angle to it....does that help anything?
 
I think you want them to run as true to the spring as possible , not sure what creating a ramp up or down really does other than maybe restrict movement a little .
 
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As you can see these have an angle toward the front. This would create less restriction I believe. Most others, including the universals that I have... do not have the angle, but if Im notching them in, I have this opportunity.
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How can you tell which way is front ? if you go by the triangle then they are indeed angled down towards the front but keeping in mind the spring gets longer under load so that would be uphill causing more resistance on load and less on rebound , not sure if it's really enough either way to matter tho eh .
 
how deep are you notching them in and why notch them at all ? your already gaining most of the length of the shackle in drop , you can only notch them in so deep before you create an interference of some sort or another wouldn't it be easier to re-arch your springs or use a lowering block if your trying to get lower ? I totally get why you would notch in the front but it seems like a whole lot of work for almost no pay off doing the back .
 
cannucky said:
How can you tell which way is front ? if you go by the triangle then they are indeed angled down towards the front but keeping in mind the spring gets longer under load so that would be uphill causing more resistance on load and less on rebound , not sure if it's really enough either way to matter tho eh .
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The ones shown above are Calvert made sliders, the arrow does indeed indicate the front. If you go to the calvert page and click on the picture of the sliders (it's giant!) you can see the stamped markings on them for the front and for the slider eye position. Calvert Leaf Spring Sliders [SL-300CR] - $189.00 : The Leader In Leaf Spring Innovation, - Calvert Racing

The idea is that the slider track should be parallel to the angle of the spring- so if you draw a line through the spring eyes the track should be parallel to that line. Whatever angle is on the spring should be on the track. If the angle on the track matches the angle on the springs then the angle of the spring doesn't change even when the spring is moving back and forth under load. This is a little info on the spring sliders I found, sorry for the size of the image. It spends a lot of time talking about having the springs toed in, which changes how the geometry works on corner exits, but that part isn't really relevant to A-bodies as the springs are parallel to the center line. But it also covers the angle of the slider tracks. I'm pretty sure the application of the image is circle track, but I'm not positive.

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cannucky said:
how deep are you notching them in and why notch them at all ? your already gaining most of the length of the shackle in drop , you can only notch them in so deep before you create an interference of some sort or another wouldn't it be easier to re-arch your springs or use a lowering block if your trying to get lower ? I totally get why you would notch in the front but it seems like a whole lot of work for almost no pay off doing the back .
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If you squint really hard in the image I posted above you can see there's a recommended angle for the rear springs. It shows a measurement of 6.5" to the bottom of the front eye and 14" to the middle of the rear eye. If you add the inch to go center to center, do some math, you come up with an angle of 6.8*. The stock mounting angle is a little shallower than that. The actual dimensions will change with the ride height, so, the arch of the spring and height of the rear tire, but the angle is the important part. On my car for example, with the sliders mounted flat, the front measurement is 7.5", the rear measurement is 15". Correcting that to center eye to center eye, I actually get the same angle as the picture, 6.8*. So, a notch on my car wouldn't necessarily be a good idea. But I use an offset front hanger, and it actually doesn't put the eye in the same vertical location as a stock hanger, so, other cars may be different.

On that note, if you're using a Hotchkis front hanger, or an aftermarket hanger with a 1" lowering location for the front spring eye, you may need a notch to restore that geometry.

Younggun2.0 did a notch with his sliders (and 3" relocation). You could add some angle to this operation pretty easily.
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Agreed. The missing part of my post (apologies) is that the instructions that come with the sliders suggest a difference of 7.5" in height between front and rear eye, and 1.5-2" lateral difference, giving the front of the spring more toe in. They say that a little of that will give the vehicle better cornering characteristics. I am not going to go that extreme, but may take advantage of those instructions to be able to put the slider where I want to...laterally. So, the car is mini tubbed and has the 3" relocation front US tool which gives me 3 heights of mounting front eye. At the lowest eye (which raises the car the highest) I have 7.25" of height difference. I was looking to not have the *** end up too far and so notching was going to give me "just a little more" room to play with. I do agree, for the work it may not be worth it. I should say "whatever" to the 7.5" #.... put the springs at the height I want and adjust the handling in another manner.
Thanks for the reply!

Oh Blu beat me too it....well done sir

Ill post what I end up doing for posterity purposes.
 
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I wasn't trying to be critical , thanks to both of you for sharing this knowledge I am going to go to these sliders myself and will probably look to do something on the offset for cornering as well but not 2 " maybe drill a hole in the side of the rail to move a pair of offset front hangers over more by putting the welded nut in the rail.
 
cannucky said:
I wasn't trying to be critical , thanks to both of you for sharing this knowledge I am going to go to these sliders myself and will probably look to do something on the offset for cornering as well but not 2 " maybe drill a hole in the side of the rail to move a pair of offset front hangers over more by putting the welded nut in the rail.
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No worries, I'm just trying to put more of the information out there.

I'm not too sure I'd worry about re-engineering the leaf spring mounting to include toed in springs. If you did just remember that you'd have to make sure the rear sliders (or shackles) were matched to the angle of toe you put on the spring. E-bodies used an angled spring set up like that. Like everything in suspension, there are advantages and disadvantages to running the springs like that. For the amount of work it would take I would just leave them parallel to the centerline. Some of this stuff is really getting into some pretty small nuances of suspension. Not that it's not important, or that it can't lead to a better tuned suspension, but I think some of it is more like something you'd do after you identify a problem with how your suspension is working. As in, if you noticed that your car was constantly loose on corner exits, you might look into toeing the springs in a bit. But doing that can also cause some rear steer. That may be good, it'll help turn the car, or it may be something you don't like as a driver. And there are other ways to deal with that, like making adjustments to the rear sway bar or rear leaf spring rates.
 
After re-reading and looking at that diagram I think I will actually buy a pair of rear hangers and have someone weld a plate to the lower edges that sticks outboard by 2 inches or so and forward by a few inches then find the sweet spot for the slider drill , tap and jamb nut the slider bracket to the plate then cut off the excess plate , maybe a reinforcing spacer/stiffener plate between the edges of the hanger bracket as well. I don't well but if I cut all the pieces I bet I can get someone to weld it all up pretty cheap for me .
 
Thanks Blu , no rear bar , I have the SS springs I suppose I should use the lower drivers side for the height ratio eh ? I was typing the same time as you and have already abandoned moving the front I think I will shoot for an inch of movement outboard at the back , not enough to make it rear steer but enough to add a little lateral stiffness maybe ?
 
I was thinking of fudging to the outside in rear as well for lateral gains but also to make a bit more room for my exhaust. I put the front 3" re-location hanger in parallel with centerline so maybe to not tweak the front eye, Ill just stick with centerline.

Thanks 72Blu!
 
Thanks again to both of you this is what this site is supposed to be about , teaching completely new ideas to us old dogs .
 
cannucky said:
Thanks Blu , no rear bar , I have the SS springs I suppose I should use the lower drivers side for the height ratio eh ? I was typing the same time as you and have already abandoned moving the front I think I will shoot for an inch of movement outboard at the back , not enough to make it rear steer but enough to add a little lateral stiffness maybe ?
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clementine said:
I was thinking of fudging to the outside in rear as well for lateral gains but also to make a bit more room for my exhaust. I put the front 3" re-location hanger in parallel with centerline so maybe to not tweak the front eye, Ill just stick with centerline.

Thanks 72Blu!
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Remember that if you move the rear of the spring out laterally you'll be cheating yourself out of tire clearance. And yes, if the front hanger mount is parallel with with frame you want to keep your rear mount parallel to it, otherwise you will side load the front spring eye and spring.

As far as lateral stiffness with the SS springs, I don't think it will be much of an issue. They do have a higher arch, but they're stiffer springs with reinforced front sections. The spring rate on them is borderline too high for handling operations already.
 
Good point on the clearance ,I guess I'm back to the front offset and perch offset for clearance then find the natural center line of the spring for the mounting line for the slider .
 
cannucky said:
Good point on the clearance ,I guess I'm back to the front offset and perch offset for clearance then find the natural center line of the spring for the mounting line for the slider .
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Just ordered my sliders I hope they make a small difference.
 
Just got my brackets and now will install my sliders will post more photos later after install..

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Are then pic's with the suspension loaded or in the air.
Is there going to be enough travel? in the slot.
 
yeah, I was waiting to do pinion angle and final weld on my sliders after I have the car back together for that very reason. I wont wait for necessarily interior but glass and spare will/probably be in place. Looks like he bolted in so he should be able to adjust if he is too short. .02
 
Cudafever said:
Are then pic's with the suspension loaded or in the air.
Is there going to be enough travel? in the slot.
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They are not in the air.In fact the bolts where not tighten down because I wanted to see where everything was at.I have it setup where I can make any adjustment.I have other slots so I can move the sliders forward or back.Refer back to page 1 and go to 13..
 
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I really thought that they would move more than that!
Did it 60' any better or feel any more stable on the top end.
 
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